Motorized bike, anyone have one?

[debit.servus]

...
I've ran a 40 rear tooth gear and the output gear on the motor's counter shaft has 10 teeth driving a 26 inch wheel.  The motor is measured at 80 cc but I put a 49cc sticker on the engine.   No one is checking displacement of these motors....just the speed you drive at.  (20 mph in Ohio is legal)  In WV and KY 30 mph is legal.   I can  hit close to the mid 30 mph with mine.  It has decent take off from a shove but if I pedal some and then engage the the engine it's quite a brisk take off.   Only one gear "in or out".   These are rated as one horse power engines but in the upper rpm range they generate about 5 horse power.  You can find these on eBay or numerous motorized bicycle message board ad's.   Again you can hold one of these motors in your
hands they are that small and any LEO will be more likely to laugh at one than want to make a fool of himself
over checking it's dimensions.  

A kit would come in a card board box and unpack to look like this.   Cost anywhere from $95 dollars to $129
depending on the time of year.  Some of them ship free.    These can be purchased with a recoil starter and even a centrifugal clutch.

If you use one of these types you will probably have to buy and install an extra wide pedal crank kit that will
have clearance for the additional recoil and centrifugal added to the motor.   The pedals will be about 7 inches wider than standard. 

I have ridden mine about as easily after the motor install as I rode it before.   My bike was a 10 spd and I took the front derailer off and use the 5 rear gears.  (the two front sprockets are still on the pedal crank and if I want to I can manually change the gears.  But now I only use the 5 rear gears when I pedal. 

That about covers it.  

Here is an eBay auction engine fitted with recoil starter & centrifugal clutch so you'll know one when you see it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/49CC-2-CYCL...ash=item4b0649da5e:g:gtYAAOSwaB5XowcR&vxp=mtr

This is the kind of motorized bike kit I bought, and in the last stage of fitting onto the cruiser bike I bought for this motorization.

I am building an electric bike using three 17 amp hour SLAs from Harbor Freight jumpstarters. The only way i'll do electric is with a small generator behind me. I already bought the kit and the cheapo 700 watt HFT 2-stroke genset. The genset will be used to get the same benefit as gas-powered motorized bikes and can be used to power the electric motor direct if needed. I get the quiet of electric when I need it and the range of gas when I don't, while not getting second looks from most people. If/when the cheap genset blows up or if there is some electrical fault that disables the electric motor, I can still pedal the bike home.

Set-up Cost for this electric bike:
$100 for the bike ($84 Roadmaster mountain bike from WALMART, plus tax and protection plan)
$202 and change for the 800 watt electric bike conversion kit which comes with every component but the batteries (you can buy a 500 watt kit for $20-$40 less if you need to cut costs)
$50 for a set of 12 amp hour Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries as odds are you don't have 3 shucked jumpstarter batteries
$115 for the 700 watt HFT 2-stroke generator (genset bought with $90 coupon plus 1 year protection plan and taxes)
$30 for a rear bicycle rack to put the generator on.
$20 for a 6 amp battery charger or power supply to charge the batteries & run the motor.
Time & skill cost to put it all together to make the bike operational.

Setup Cost for a 89cc 2-stroke bike:
$130 for the bike (WALMART cruiser bike with derailleur and handlebar brakes, the kind the bikes the 89cc 2-stroke conversion kits are designed for)
$110 for the Chinese low-end 89cc 2-stroke conversion kit (found on eBay, search "2-stroke engine")
If you want to take it on public transit: chloroplast or something to stealthify the engine and fuel tank. Guess I should stockpile chloroplast during and after this election season.
Time and skill cost to put it all together to make the bike operational.

The costs for the components are priced at what it would cost to buy them at retail price in the continental United States and may vary. Time and skill costs refer to the amount of time it takes to assemble the motorized bike (time cost) and the skills needed to do the work yourself (skill cost).

 

[eDJ_]

I was over by my local University district today and saw a student riding one of these from the down town area to the campus.  Of course he was on the sidewalk with few people in his way.   I was barely able to keep up with him while driving my Van.  

Electric powered Uni Cycle  (several makers/versions of these)  for less than $400  bucks.

Video

 

[ArtW]

reminds me of those things the security guys ride in the malls, but less safe lol

 

[eDJ_]

Segway's Art   LOL

Yeah, I can see the Mall Rats riding these unicycles around the Mall's with the Security Guards in hot pursuit right behind them on their Segway's.

Now I'm thinking of Police Interceptor versions of Segway's equipped with flashing blue lights, radios, Dash cam's with mini cam equipped Drones they can deploy from the top of their helmets.  Of course their helmets will be equipped with pull down Virtual Reality visors to enable them to chase down the Mall Rats.

 

[ArtW]

hahahahahahahahaha!
Mall Wars
long long ago, in a mega mall far far away

 

[johnny b]

Somebody mention mall cop? 

 

[eDJ_]

Looks like the Mall Rats outflanked him and are hot on his trail now.      Or maybe he's just headed down to the Donut shop.

 

[debit.servus]

So after building the electric bike with the generator behind it (which I haven't perfected the generator behind it part), I don't know if I can reccommend electric.
To pull the generator behind me I settled on a 18x12" moving dolly (http://www.harborfreight.com/materi...in-1000-lb-capacity-hardwood-dolly-63098.html) with a swivel handle (http://www.harborfreight.com/material-handling/dollies/swivel-handle-for-wooden-dolly-94354.html). I installed the swivel handle as pictured.

The first trip with the genset behind me was to go to HFT and Home Depot to wheels and redirod with the appropriate nuts to put a real axle on this as I knew the dolly wheels wouldn't last. The trailing was one step up from being pulled with a rope and I ended up using an appliance cord due to the two generator jacknifes which knarled the power cord. I did a test run to work out obvious flaws before leaving the house and replaced the cord. If you aren't trying to sneak a generator on public transit just buy a cargo bicycle trailer to safely hold the generator (and maybe the chargers while you're at it). Bike itself handles good but waking it is like being on a tightrope, 20 degrees and the bike wants to fall over due to the lead acid batteries. The generator and chargers keeps me moving however not at the speed of full charge with cold batteries. I have sunk nearly $500 into this 2-stroke electric bike, if you want to do electric and have $500 just buy one of the $500 ebikes with basic expectations.

Range with 3 17ah lead-acids is 2 miles before I have to start pedaling to assist the motor, when I first started range was about 4 miles before needing to pedal. Motor top speed is as advertised on full charge. I like how power gradually declines vs sudden death.

I just ordered this friction drive kit from ebay, 33.5cc is better than pedaling for me. Ships from China so it will be a while, but can't complain as shipping is free and I can afford the wait. The price sounds too good to be true for me so buyer beware, I took the chance as worst case scenario I lose $47. No red flags so this kit checks out, I can't wait to get it and start running without.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/33cc-fricti...858326?hash=item3d2d3b2e96:g:u8MAAOSw-0xYR2wa
Since I want to take the bike on public transit, I plan on disquising the engine with something trendy, don't know what yet as I don't know how this fits onto the bike.

Budget Gas Vs Electric Bike:
Budget Chain-Drive Gas Bike Pros:
Range is only limited to fuel supply, carry a small bottle of 2-stroke oil and fill at regular gas stations or carry half a gallon of premixed fuel with you. Run all day.
Lighter weight the lead-acid ebike even with big engine.
High power on tap.

Budget Chain-Drive Gas Bike Cons:
Noise, especially with little chainsaw engines.
Rattling bicycle, depending on engine.
Fumes/exhaust
potential unreliability especially with fitted kits not designed for ones type of bike. Moving parts break first.
More maintence than electric due to many moving parts.


Budget Electric Bike Pros:
Quiet
No exhaust fumes
Allowed on a lot of public transit out of the box (check your transit agency first)
Few moving parts, little maintence (especially with in-hub motor kits), high reliability due to mostly solid-state system.
Better handling, predicitable throttle
gradual acceleration dynamic (depending on size of motor)

Budget Electric Bike Cons:
Single-digit mile range with cheap SLA batteries (Sealed Lead Acid)
Heavy SLA batteries to secure.
Long charge times: ride for 30 minutes and recharge for hours.
Iffy wiring especially with low-end kits (not really a con)
Cheap chinese e-bike controllers can burn up
Risk shorting electric drive system if riding in heavy rain (not really a con, if you keep the controller and batteries in a bag with wire connections covered you greatly reduce the risk).


Budget Friction-Drive Gas Bike Pros:
Range is only limited to fuel supply, carry a small bottle of 2-stroke oil and fill at regular gas stations or carry half a gallon of premixed fuel with you. Run all day with fuel.
As simple as motorized machine as it gets.
Fully modular, friction drive engine to bicycle is like outboard motor to boat.
High power on tap.
Handful of moving parts, replacement friction gears can be bought and swapped.
Little change in mass dynamics.
Minimal maintenence.
Engine can be stealthified for taking on public transit (do this at your own risk)

Budget Friction-Drive Gas Bike Cons:
Noise.
Rattling bicycle, depending on engine.
Fumes/exhaust

 

[eDJ_]

I was just thinking about this the other day.  You know how we have "Hybrid Cars" ?   Would it be possible to have a Hybrid bicycle ?  

I'm imagining a friction drive front mounted engine that contains an electric motor in the wheel.  Thus the front tire would be the powered wheel.

The rear wheel would have a sheave nearly as large in diameter than the wheel itself.  This would drive an alternator mounted over the rear wheel.  The alternator would be set up at 115 VAC to charge a battery pack
that contains it's own charger. 

Youtube showing an alternator from a Chrysler 5th Ave set up to deliver 115 vac.



The idea is that if you ride under gasoline power the alternator will power the battery charger to charge the battery that operates the electric motor in the front wheel.   When the battery becomes discharged then the
gasoline friction drive motor would be started to continue and recharge the battery in the same time. 

I know it will take some energy to turn the alternator when it's field is energized. So it's going to take a large sheave to turn the alternator.  This may require a poly 4V belt

Where the field energize power for the alternator is going to come from ?  Perhaps a small motorcycle battery
would be capable of it.   The battery for the bicycle motor wouldn't be suitable  I don't believe.

And...I don't even know if this would work.   But it's just a concept for now.  The mechanics wouldn't be that complicated. 

For the sheave a 26" rim mated to a 27" rim would only require a few backward "Z" tabs to be welded to the two rims.   Like so:

This is an image of a 36 Vdc front drive wheel:

So your gasoline motor would mount directly over the top and drive against it's rubber tire (friction drive).

This while the rear wheel would turn an alternator mounted on a carry rack above it.

If it were to require a small motorcycle battery to field energize the alternator for it to produce electric,
then the battery could be recharged when necessary.  (again,  I don't have any idea of how long the field energize signal would have to last.  OR, if the same alternator could be configured to recharge that motorcycle battery at the same time it charges the electric wheel motor.  That would be ideal if it could be done.)

So..........would any of our electric Guru's here know how to put something like this together ?

Here is an electric motor powering a rear wheel with a motorcycle battery for power. But this works at total loss.

 

[Gunny]

I would like to find one that was reasonably easy to pedal and if my hip decides to take a break perhaps get me home without pedaling. I don't want to spend 7000 on some of the deluxe models, but with my lack of mechanical know how i would have to pay someone to assemble it correctly.

I use my stationary pedaler (I get some strange looks from people walking by) and can go for several miles then wham, Kings X time to stop.

eDJ I may ask you for some help deciding via pm

 

[Willy]

One thing that kinda sux about friction drive is that it wears the hell outta your tire, especially when wet and/or going mud n dirt. I rather l8ke the belt driven units, KISS, and would consider a FWD setup. ..Willy.

 

[skyl4rk]

I built a hybrid electric bicycle using a hubmotor with 48V of lead acid batteries. I added a 2 stroke weedwacker motor coupled to a 60V DC motor as a generator, which charged the batteries. It was a range extender, it allowed about 50% more miles in range. The hybrid generator was not powerful enough to push the bike uphill. One downside is that it was noisy. When I had the electric drive throttle off, for example while waiting at a stop light, the weedwacker motor would speed up because there was no load on it. So I would be sitting there waiting and the motor would be peaking out rpms, just screaming while it charged the batteries. It scared pedestrians. It was also way too heavy. The batteries alone were too heavy, then add a gas motor and electric motor/generator. A stupid but fun project, I learned a lot.

I think that for a cheap motorized bike, a friction drive with a good motor (japanese) is the way to go.

For a quality, reliable motorized bike to go long distances, a GEBE is the way to go.

However, as someone who is trying to exercise as much as possible, a regular pedal bike can do almost anything a motorized bike can do. I sold all my motorized bike gear (several China girl motor kits, DAX Titan rack kit, several electric hubmotors) and just ride a pedal bike now.

For riding around in the desert around Q, I think a mountain bike with suspension and a GEBE system would be excellent. I would buy the GEBE wheel with the pulley already installed. But, you have the price of a good bike plus the price of the GEBE system, and I can get a used 250cc dual sport motorcycle that can be used on highways for under $2,000. So I probably would just stick with a pedal bike and go shorter distances.

 

[eDJ_]

Yes Gunny,  I've been around them for awhile.  Some are low end cheap and good for a year or so and some are mid priced and good for some time.   When you figure what you want to do/spend shoot me a pm.

Willy,  totally agree friction drives are the bottom end of motorized bikes.  No good in the wet and they eat tires like the engine eats gas.  

One of the set ups I like best uses a Harbor Freight gas motor with an adapter to mount it to the frame.  The
transmission (which I think is grossly over priced)  is a Q-Matic centrifugal clutch drive that connects a chain to a large rear wheel sprocket. (added to the left side so the pedals sprocket is on the right.  Thus motor power on the left and human power on the right.

But, costly as this is,  it will outlast several of those little Chinese bicycle motors.  You "can" get a lot of money in one of these and could have a used motor bike for as much and with it have something LEO's won't be hassling you about.  I've come to think that the low end $150 Chinese kits and a yard sale bike for $20 bucks or less may be the best solution for a cheap motor bike. (that you could ride in the boondocks with no problem)    But I like the one in the video if I could find a used one someone had tired of and I could buy it right.  The motor is a more durable 4 cycle made of better materials,  the Q-Matic similar. 



As for buying a springer front fork and loads of other "one piece at a time" custom stuff to build with...that's where the money adds up.   If you are out west it may not be too much of a problem, but in the east it can be LEO bait.

 

[eDJ_]

Gunny, 

Here is a 49cc Chinese Kit  where the engine has a centrifugal clutch and a recoil start.  It is priced at $130 with free shipping.  Will probably go up in price as nice weather returns.  I've seen them for around $160 then plus shipping.   This has a 44 tooth rear sprocket which would be about right for a 49cc engine used on flat to rolling hills. (but not steep hills)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Stroke-48...-PULL-START-Auto-Gearbox-Clutch-/162120434656

Here is a photo showing a recoil starter installed.  The centrifugal clutch looks like a dome on the side of the motor.

If you shove off with our feet and then pedal a few turns to get moving the centrifugal clutch take off
is much smoother and the acceleration is quicker.   This set up may be easier on your hip. 

These Chinese motors are rated in 49cc,  66cc,  and 80cc.  BUT.....some suggest the 66 and 80cc units
are the same in displacement.  It is the way the displacement is measured that makes the difference. 
Some states require 49cc or less. (but suppliers sell decals that say "49cc Gasoline motor" that you can stick on any size of motor. 

One of these may be the way to go as a compromise on price, service, and longevity.  It will likely require a
special set of "wide" pedals to clear the recoil starter and centrifugal clutch.  (allow $25 or so)

 

[Gunny]

Are the 4 strokes any good? I looked at a few on ebay and a bit more money but I don't like mixing oil.

 

[eDJ_]

I don't have any experience with the 4 strokers.   Part of what motivated their production was pollution laws as I understand. 

Even the two strokers have to indicate if they will pass California pollution codes.  You'll see that posted on the
advertisement for them...if they are California engines.  Others indicate "for the other States".  

And at 16:1 these little motors throw out some smoke.  16:1 ratios were used in the outboard motor industry here in the States back in the 1950's. 

All of these Chinese motor's (China Girls as some call them)  were outgrowths of the old 1950's Russian bicycle motors.  (circa 1957)   The  Chinese purchased all the stuff from the Russians and refined them for their own use.  The pistons used to stick in these Russian two strokes but if the engine was allowed to cool (which didn't take long) the piston would free up again.  

 

[Gunny]

I guess if I think of it realistically one of these may be the same as my dual sport. Still have that support issue with my hip. I keep trying to think of workarounds but nothing realistic can be done. But that atv will do a solid sixty and scare the living shit out of me on launch.

Be safe and thanks for looking... Rob

 

[Willy]

You can utilize compression braking with 4 strokes, since lubrication is separate from the fuel and I seem to remember something about them having a lower rpm torque band. Also, they're not as sensitive to exhaust system configuration since the exhaust gases are actually pumped out of the cylinder. ..Willy.

 

[eDJ_]

Willy wrote:

You can utilize compression braking with 4 strokes, since lubrication is separate from the fuel and I seem to remember something about them having a lower rpm torque band. Also, they're not as sensitive to exhaust system configuration since the exhaust gases are actually pumped out of the cylinder. ..Willy.

That's quite right.  I think the reason for the 2cycle being so popular in the past on small bikes was the size could be small and the power be large. 

Those 2 strokes are most vulnerable to air leaks which may cause a run away of rpm's.   '

30 mph is about as fast as anyone would really want to go on one of these motorized bikes.  Many states limit it to 20 mph.

There are a bunch of 4 stroke motor kits out there but most are more expensive than the 2 strokes by at least $100 dollars.  Which puts it back to the question,  could you find a good used Moped for the same money.

 

[debit.servus]

I was just thinking about this the other day.  You know how we have "Hybrid Cars" ?   Would it be possible to have a Hybrid bicycle ?  

I'm imagining a friction drive front mounted engine that contains an electric motor in the wheel.  Thus the front tire would be the powered wheel.

The rear wheel would have a sheave nearly as large in diameter than the wheel itself.  This would drive an alternator mounted over the rear wheel.  The alternator would be set up at 115 VAC to charge a battery pack
that contains it's own charger. 

Youtube showing an alternator from a Chrysler 5th Ave set up to deliver 115 vac.



The idea is that if you ride under gasoline power the alternator will power the battery charger to charge the battery that operates the electric motor in the front wheel.   When the battery becomes discharged then the
gasoline friction drive motor would be started to continue and recharge the battery in the same time. 

I know it will take some energy to turn the alternator when it's field is energized. So it's going to take a large sheave to turn the alternator.  This may require a poly 4V belt

Where the field energize power for the alternator is going to come from ?  Perhaps a small motorcycle battery
would be capable of it.   The battery for the bicycle motor wouldn't be suitable  I don't believe.

And...I don't even know if this would work.   But it's just a concept for now.  The mechanics wouldn't be that complicated. 

For the sheave a 26" rim mated to a 27" rim would only require a few backward "Z" tabs to be welded to the two rims.   Like so:

This is an image of a 36 Vdc front drive wheel:

So your gasoline motor would mount directly over the top and drive against it's rubber tire (friction drive).

This while the rear wheel would turn an alternator mounted on a carry rack above it.

If it were to require a small motorcycle battery to field energize the alternator for it to produce electric,
then the battery could be recharged when necessary.  (again,  I don't have any idea of how long the field energize signal would have to last.  OR, if the same alternator could be configured to recharge that motorcycle battery at the same time it charges the electric wheel motor.  That would be ideal if it could be done.)

So..........would any of our electric Guru's here know how to put something like this together ?

Here is an electric motor powering a rear wheel with a motorcycle battery for power.  But this works at total loss.

I was thinking about building a hybrid motorized bike like what you're describing, but it feels like a lot of effort for little gain. The biggest hurdle is the standard alternator is 12 volts and the motor runs on 36v then you need to boost the voltage.

One thing that kinda sux about friction drive is that it wears the hell outta your tire, especially when wet and/or going mud n dirt. I rather l8ke the belt driven units, KISS, and would consider a FWD setup. ..Willy.

At this point I just want something that works and can be brought onto the bus and light rail to augment the range, and I found the electric bike I built with the heavy SLAs need extra attention to walk it (bike will fall over if standing more than 5 degrees off it's center of gravity). Also on the inagurial trip it was a stregnth test to put the bicycle on the exteroir front rack on the front of VTAs bus. I don't care if friction drive is half as efficient compared to chain drive or if I need to replace the rear tire with a solid rubber tire, I just want something that needs minimal maintence and works out. Even if the friction drive is 10 MPG it's still way cheaper than a car mile-for-mile and the friction drive bike is the only motorized mobility I can afford currently.

...

Willy,  totally agree friction drives are the bottom end of motorized bikes.  No good in the wet and they eat tires like the engine eats gas.  

I can see this, so i'll add "possible tire wear" and "Can be no good in wet weather, due to loss of friction due to wet tire"
Again, even if the friction drive engine eats gas it's still far cheaper motorized mobility than a car.

One of the set ups I like best uses a Harbor Freight gas motor with an adapter to mount it to the frame.  The
transmission (which I think is grossly over priced)  is a Q-Matic centrifugal clutch drive that connects a chain to a large rear wheel sprocket. (added to the left side so the pedals sprocket is on the right.  Thus motor power on the left and human power on the right.

But, costly as this is,  it will outlast several of those little Chinese bicycle motors. 
...

I've seen this kind of chain drive motorized bicycle, and I am sure it is long lasting and reliable with quality fabrication and parts. But as you say,

You "can" get a lot of money in one of these and could have a used motor bike for as much and with it have something LEO's won't be hassling you about. I've come to think that the low end $150 Chinese kits and a yard sale bike for $20 bucks or less may be the best solution for a cheap motor bike. (that you could ride in the boondocks with no problem) But I like the one in the video if I could find a used one someone had tired of and I could buy it right. The motor is a more durable 4 cycle made of better materials, the Q-Matic similar.



As for buying a springer front fork and loads of other "one piece at a time" custom stuff to build with...that's where the money adds up. ...

Agreed, if your partslist for your DIY motorized bike has it's cost add up to exceed $400-600 (depending on what one is looking to build), start researching low-end ready made motorized bikes on Amazon, Ebay, and other websites that sell low-end ready made motrized bikes.

If you desire something that isn't commercially available or you can't swallow the initial price, the "one piece at a time" method is like a layaway or payment plan.


The 2-stroke electric bike part didn't pan out in the real world like it did on paper but the trike part will be a great outcome for this project. As of now I have sunk over $550 into the 2-stroke electric bike and now plan to convert it to a reverse cargo trike by removing the front wheel, u-bolting http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...0-cubic-ft-heavy-duty-trailer-cart-38897.html to the front forks, and then relocating the batteries, chargers and 2-stroke generator onto the bottom of the trailer cart, in a way where I can haul things above it. This was part of the design from the beginning, I wanted a 2-stroke electric bike/trike that I can ride year round in San Jose and legally in BRC; convertable from bike to trike in 30 minutes or less.

In the end I will have a DIY 2-stroke heavy duty electric cargo trike that I can do errands within a 5 mile radius of home, capable of moving me and a load of purchases without getting too much negative attention. It will be reversable back to an electric bike if I decide to do electric using ultra luxe lithium-ion batteries (ulta luxe for me as battery packs start at $350, and I have about $35 to my name right now). The 2-stroke electric trike will have a estimated money cost of under $700, and have stregnth and carrying capacity of ready made cargo trikes costing $2000+. Time costs so far I estimate to be 100-200 hours actively thinking, engineering, researching, comparision shopping, acquiring parts and putting them together. Skill cost is intermediate, as you're doing things to things they weren't really designed for. I plan to post a how-to and build log of the whole 2-stroke electric bike development.

For the sheave a 26" rim mated to a 27" rim would only require a few backward "Z" tabs to be welded to the two rims. Like so:

This is what I was thinking as a compromise for the stated cons of friction drive, belt drive direct to wheel motorized bike.


Regardless, I can't reccommend electric bikes unless you're a commuter who commutes to the same place everyday within the electric bikes battery range, and you can charge the bike at work if work is at the edge of the battery range. I have 4+ years of alternate motorized personal mobility experiecnce and seen everything from senseless boutique bikes to hillbilly machines. For those on a shoestring budget and don't have credit to finance a $1000 initial purchase, and want the freedom to roam without range limits: chain, belt or friction driven gasoline-engined bikes are the way to go.