Make America Great

[IanC]

Just about anywhere you go in the country there is an incredible amount of ugly crap in the form of rusted out cars, old machinery, etc piled up in yards and empty lots - especially in the Southern states, west and east.  You can't force people to clean it up, because it's always in areas of poverty, where people don't have the means anyway. Also, it's past the point where isolated individual efforts make that much difference and some people don't seem to care, or notice that they're living surrounded by junk.  Maybe we just have to say " your right to collect rusty shit is making the country suck, and you can't do it anymore"

Now, imagine if the biggest effort in history went into cleaning it all up?  The whole country divided into a grid and each sector assigned to a different trucking contractor and crews were hired to comb every backyard, farm and roadside dump.  Not only would we never have to mine iron for the next 50 years, but a lot of people would be working as well - like the WPA programs. Old lumber could be shredded to mulch areas of erosion. and enrich arid soil. Can't use all that steel right now?  Make metal dumps be the mining of the future - landfills as a future reserve to be 'mined' as needed.

Remember when the Nixon administration started the 'Give a Hoot - Don't Pollute' campaign to change the public attitude towards littering?  We need that type of 'Keep America Beautiful' enthusiasm again. Imagine what 300 million people with rakes and brooms could do, block by block and street by street?  If everyone filled one garbage bag - that's a lot of trash. The waterways clean-up efforts with relatively few volunteers have a huge impact. 300 million volunteers? Fuggedaboutit!

Often, things don't get done unless there is a profit for someone.  We just have to accept that, and perhaps make it more profitable to become a government contractor in the clean-up industry than the war industry.  If even a quarter of the military personnel were out supervising work crews here in America, rather than overseas then the 'protecting our way of life' mantra would have some real meaning.

Of course it will never happen, but it's a good thought anyway.

 

[GotSmart]

I see those hulks as art.  Clean up the blowing trash all you want. 

Classic iron just waiting to rise from the ashes as someones prize.  

History in evolution.  

Without the different attitudes, this country would have never become the great collection of people it is.

America is Great.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

1800 cars in rural Cali...this video just killed me when I watched it the other day.

Artist Tom Merkel’s Cuyama Historical Car Garden:

I actually thought if I owned this land, would be a great van dwelling area.

 

[TrainChaser]

Some people have mental blocks about things like that: removing useless old hulks from their 40 acres. Leaving a huge pile of fiberglass insulation in their backyard to get wet and have blackberry vines grow through it. Letting a haphazard pile of lumber rot. Some people complain about their cat having three litters of kittens every year, but won't get her spayed, even if it's free, and no charge for pickup and delivery.

Can rust be turned back into a useful form of iron? I found something alongside the garage today, and just wondered.

I know the rule that "matter cannot be created or destroyed", and that iron is a basic element, but my knowledge stops right there.

 

[highdesertranger]

couple of points.
on farms and ranches that those ugly old vehicles and junk as you see it, is their own private salvage yard. much of it gets repurposed and reused. one mans junk is another treasure.

on public land anything over 50 years old is protected by the Antiquities Act and can not be touched.

anything with a vin number needs the proper paper work to be disposed of.

I am personally against any law that forces people comply with what someone else sees as acceptable.

with all that said I am all for prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law anybody who gets caught illegal dumping weather it's on public or private land. highdesertranger

 

[wagoneer]

I think America is already great and has been for quite a while. I respect Private Property since I have some of my own

 

[Ballenxj]

couple of points.
on farms and ranches that those ugly old vehicles and junk as you see it,  is their own private salvage yard.  much of it gets repurposed and reused.   one mans junk is another treasure.

on public land anything over 50 years old is protected by the Antiquities Act and can not be touched.

anything with a vin number needs the proper paper work to be disposed of.

I am personally against any law that forces people comply with what someone else sees as acceptable.

with all that said I am all for prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law anybody who gets caught illegal dumping weather it's on public or private land.  highdesertranger

^^ I agree with all the above. ^^
 I am also very much against homeowners associations for many of the same reasons.

 

[IanC]

I am personally against any law that forces people comply with what someone else sees as acceptable.

True, but in my hometown, the city took property that had been sitting, falling into decay for a period of time and demolished the houses, and planted grass areas.  The same is happening in Detroit, where hundreds of buildings are being demolished - all of which were technically owned by someone (or a bank), who left.  You could call that government over-reach, and some people find artistic merit in decay.  Personally, I think if those areas which will never be rehabbed were returned to the forested land that they once were, it would be awesome. Eminent domain is probably not even constitutional but I don't think you'd find a lot of argument against it in those cases.  I think that small towns with abandoned and decayed areas that will never ever be brought to life but can't afford to do it themselves would welcome Fed aid in doing something about it.

As far as properties that have become dumps  I think often that the owners have become overwhelmed and are either too old or don't have the financial means to clean them. Most are probably not even attached to the rusted out cars in the yard, they just don't have a means of disposing of them. In cities there are scrap yards everywhere. Not the case in small Southwestern towns.

And as far as those people who are defensive about the 'Make America Great'.  Of course it is. It's the greatest thing ever to happen in the history of earth, but I don't see that improvement to the undeniable issue of un-used waste makes it any less so. Removing criminals from the street makes it greater just as removing and reusing the blight of the (probably) millions of tons of debris everywhere would as well.

Littering: I stayed at a public area in Balmorhea, Texas that had halfway decent reviews on Freecampsites. I was astounded at how oblivious the people fishing along the lake were to the litter that lined the banks. Sunday afternoon, large families came to picnic and just walked away from all the garbage they had generated. If anyone remembers, that wasn't that uncommon before the early 70's when the huge anti littering campaigns began. It took a massive campaign to change people's ideas about pitching crap out the car window (our highways used to be littered). I think it's time for a refresher campaign.

 

[Ballenxj]

True, but in my hometown, the city took property that had been sitting, falling into decay for a period of time and demolished the houses, and planted grass areas. 
<-------->
And as far as those people who are defensive about the 'Make America Great'.  Of course it is. It's the greatest thing ever to happen in the history of earth, but I don't see that improvement to the undeniable issue of un-used waste makes it any less so. Removing criminals from the street makes it greater just as removing and reusing the blight of the (probably) millions of tons of debris everywhere would as well.

Ian, I'm all for cleanups and things of that nature. I think we need to step up our fight against litterbugs and illegal dumpers.
 History should have taught us that total power corrupts totally, and when we cede even more power for them (government) to over run somebodies rights, well, let's just say that this is a slippery slope from which we may have a very hard time recovering from.
Problem is, when people focus on one issue, and write the government a blank check to do what they deem fit about it, the outlying issues that were not thought a problem before may be a problem in some official's eyes. Where do we stop? How do we stop? We have to take the blinders off while looking at the bigger picture.
America was founded on the beliefs of freedom, not regulation.

 

[IanC]

, I live in Phoenix, and we have a lot of folks from south of the border here so I see this a lot. They just toss trash out everywhere. Saw a guy on a bicycle take a burger out of the bag, toss the bag, then unwrap the burger and toss the paper as well, right out in the parking lot, FIVE FEET FROM A TRASH CAN! I spend time in Mexico and it is the norm there. They just don't care.

Yes, that is common in countries where there hasn't been an emphasis on litter.  I go back to the pre-70's when we were less aware as well. Few people remember when there was hardly a waterway in the country where it was safe to eat the fish, or that you could hardly touch a surface in any city without your hand having black residue.  We were well on our way to being what China has become.  LA was frequently blanketed in a haze - not as bad as Shanghai, but getting there.  Mexico City is similar today. When Nixon created the EPA, every legislation against pollution and dumping was met with opposition. But it was that and changing peoples perception through campaigns that were everywhere that turned things around.  Some countries were not part of that new awareness and have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[IanC]

 History should have taught us that total power corrupts totally, and when we cede even more power for them (government) to over run somebodies rights, well, let's just say that this is a slippery slope from which we may have a very hard time recovering from.

Ok, fair enough, but it is still not uncommon for people in some areas to use the woods or banks on their property as dumps - everything goes back there (washers, tires, sofas. cars) - out of sight, out of mind.  Should there be no ordinance against that kind of dumping since it's their own property?

On the surface I say whatever I do on my property is my business and no one has the right to interfere, but taking the other side - whatever is dumped is going to long outlive the person who put it there. It will become overgrown and part of the landscape. A large part of the land in the country is privately owned. There are a lot of ordinances regarding dumping waste on private industrial land, for good reason.  I'm not sure that the actions we do on land that will impact people 5 generations after our deaths, shouldn't be of concern. 

This is all for argument's sake, BTW - I'm not under the illusion that ramblings of a forum will instigate change.

 

[IanC]

 History should have taught us that total power corrupts totally, and when we cede even more power for them (government) to over run somebodies rights, well, let's just say that this is a slippery slope from which we may have a very hard time recovering from.

Ok, fair enough, but it is still not uncommon for people in some areas to use the woods or banks on their property as dumps - everything goes back there (washers, tires, sofas. cars) - out of sight, out of mind.  Should there be no ordinance against that kind of dumping since it's their own property?

On the surface I say whatever I do on my property is my business and no one has the right to interfere, but taking the other side - whatever is dumped is going to long outlive the person who put it there. It will become overgrown and part of the landscape. A large part of the land in the country is privately owned. There are a lot of ordinances regarding dumping waste on private industrial land, for good reason.  I'm not sure that the actions we do on land that will impact people 5 generations after our deaths, shouldn't be of concern. 

This is all for argument's sake, BTW - I'm not under the illusion that ramblings of a forum will instigate change.

 

[waldenbound]

Interesting subject.
Litter on a macro level. I think it would help this country a lot to clean up the blighted areas in the Rust Belt left by the de-industrialization of America. Detroit "ruin porn" may be cool to look at and photograph, but it's also a good place for 'ho's, crackheads, and dead bodies. The city of Detroit should be shrunk down to 250,000 in population, viable industries brought in, and the remaining land returned to it's natural state. Blighted building torn down and whatever materials can be recycled, recycle.

Litter in our natural places. Re-vamp the "give a hoot-don't pollute" campaign. I think there's many people out there that are so far detached from the land and nature, they don't think of the impact litter causes. Outdoor groups have projects where groups will go out and pick up litter at a beach, or trail.

Make it easy to dispose of litter. I can't believe how little trash cans are around cities for example. Once I had some litter and walked about two blocks in downtown Seattle before I just gave up and asked a business to put it in their trash.

Litter on private property. Here's where it gets dicey, with people's property rights. I did hear someone say that trash piles up on private property because people start a project, for some reason it doesn't get done, they leave the debris and it becomes an afterthought. Make it easier to help people get rid of debris. For someone who can't get to the dump, have a recycling truck come by and people can dump it in the truck and be done with it.

 

[ZoNiE]

Heh. I had the same problem in Taiwan. They don't have trash cans, so there is no loose trash. People all come out when the ice cream truck, err, trash truck music is played and they dutifully take their trash to the truck. I found only one place I could dispose of small trash: ATM lobbies. They have a little slot for paper trash. Bingo!

 

[IanC]

[quote pid='311258' dateline='1500048569']


Litter on private property. Here's where it gets dicey, with people's property rights. I did hear someone say that trash piles up on private property because people start a project, for some reason it doesn't get done, they leave the debris and it becomes an afterthought. Make it easier to help people get rid of debris. For someone who can't get to the dump, have a recycling truck come by and people can dump it in the truck and be done with it.
[/quote]

I used to watch that show 'American Pickers' and loved the colorful old characters with acres of 'treasures' that they couldn't bear to part with. In reality, those old guys will be dead in 10 years, leaving behind large tracts of land strew with piles of things that no one will ever want, and if they even have an heir, it is unlikely that they could even afford to clean it up. So then what?  A lot of those old guys are already defying local ordinances.  Who decides what a reasonable amount of garbage is?  I don't have an answer. Within a decade trees will grow through the 'treasures' and they will become literal forests of trash.

The recycling truck idea is a good one, but many people are simply physically unable to cut up a dozen old vehicles and throw it in a truck (I couldn't).  All the fines and ordinances in the world can not force someone to do something that they are physically or financially un-able to do.  That is where paid government crews would come in.  Small towns don't have the resources to provide the recycling trucks. Again, it wouldn't happen unless there is Federal funding. When I was in Eherenburg, there were 2 abandoned travel trailers and one slide-on camper. I can see how that happened. People who were probably at the end of their resources, finding themselves with an old trailer they could no longer move and just walked away. Not because they wanted to, but because they had no other option. Things aren't always as cut and dried as they seem.

 

[GotSmart]

 I think it's time for a refresher campaign.

I agree.

 

[Cammalu]

I had a piece of land down the road from me that was gorgeous property. It's was 110 acres and in a special valley with a creek and also a fresh water spring. I sold it about three years ago because I didn't want to have to monitor it. I had people coming in and dumping all the time and was able to get them out by gating the main roads in. I also had problems with poachers all the time. The gates never stopped them and rather than go thru the constant hassle of patrolling the place all the time and making myself miserable, I just decided to sell. It just wasn't worth having to shoot someone and possible go to jail. I loved that land but creepy people ruined it for me.

I'm still on a piece of land but a tiny plot only around 13-14 acres. No poachers and nobody dumping! Land is cheap and you are pretty free to do what you'd like to. I put in a cemetery some years back and we also don't have to go to a shooting range to practice. Nobody cares or, if they do, they don't say a word.

 

[Putts]

The thing that comes to my mind is that this community of van dweller most likely leave places cleaner than they found then. As we grow---and we are and will continue to do so---I think it would be an awesome legacy if when people thought of van dwellers the second thing that comes to mind is, "My, those folks sure leave a campground tidy."

I doubt we're going to knock "They must be homeless." off the top of the list...but we can try.

 

[Gary68]

i love the bird in a hand stuff like this include the overuse of fertilizers,pesticides and herbicides and you have some here today results but unfortunately the masses like the pie in the sky i think in the future maybe something we need more money...and they are also fond of talking,writing,holding sighs and protesting but actually physically getting hands dirty,not so much and if it effects their world in anyway forget about it


a couple facts

everything is biodegradable,everything comes from the earth,pumped out of it,dug out of it,cut from the surface of it,the term "man made" is a fantasy


iron eyes cody

was italian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody

 

[ZoNiE]

The OP's idea could make for a good "make-work" program akin to the projects during the Roosevelt Years. Feds hire unemployed people, pay them a fair wage, feed them lunch, transport them to and from the worksite daily.

We'd get this bitch cleaned up pretty quickly...