Lions and Tigers and bears, Oh My!

[Stephen]

Most of the threads on this section are about fighting off human type predators, but I want to ask about the other kind. If this should be somewhere else, then moderators, feel free to move it.

My wife retires in 38 days. The house is in the process of being sold and I am ready to hit the road in 39 days. We currently have a teardrop trailer, but are thinking of something a tad bigger. One of my wife's concerns is bears. The teardrop doesn't offer a lot of protection but it is hard sided. As we look at vans, sprinters, short busses and everything short of Canastoga wagons, I started thinking about where to store trash/food if you are in a van.

With the trailer we store all food in the tow vehicle along with the trash. If in bear country we don't cook in the galley of the trailer but outside and away a bit to keep the smells down. I figure if a bear is going to go after food I would rather it tore up my TV than where I'm sleeping. In a van you don't have that luxury.

For those of you who do live in some sort of vehicle not being towed, what do you do to keep the critters away? Ever have problems?

 

[Almost There]

Most of the threads on this section are about fighting off human type predators, but I want to ask about the other kind. If this should be somewhere else, then moderators, feel free to move it.

My wife retires in 38 days. The house is in the process of being sold and I am ready to hit the road in 39 days. We currently have a teardrop trailer, but are thinking of something a tad bigger. One of my wife's concerns is bears. The teardrop doesn't offer a lot of protection but it is hard sided. As we look at vans, sprinters, short busses and everything short of Canastoga wagons, I started thinking about where to store trash/food if you are in a van.

With the trailer we store all food in the tow vehicle along with the trash. If in bear country we don't cook in the galley of the trailer but outside and away a bit to keep the smells down. I figure if a bear is going to go after food I would rather it tore up my TV than where I'm sleeping. In a van you don't have that luxury.

For those of you who do live in some sort of vehicle not being towed, what do you do to keep the critters away? Ever have problems?

"A fed bear is a dead bear"

That's what any ranger will tell you!

That being said the vast majority of bears are more scared of you than you are of them...seriously! I've only ever seen the back end of a bear as it was running away from human encounters. And I live in bear country for 6 months at a time and go canoeing/hiking in the wilderness every opportunity I get.

Where you WILL see 'fed bears' who are now accustomed to foraging for food amongst campers is in highly used campgrounds with what we like to call citiodots, who leave a messy campsite, food out, go for a swim and leave the cooler on the picnic table etc. In some of the campgrounds in Yellowstone, for example, the rangers spend countless hours patrolling the campground, reminding people repeatedly to put things away. Why...because the bears are habituated. We have a similar problem in Algonquin Park here in Ontario - the biggest bear problem each summer is not in the interior, it's in the formal campgrounds. And yes, our rangers are overworked trying to get people to not feed the darn bear who knows where the easy meals are!!

Out in the wilderness your chances of running into a habituated bear are extremely small. You're liable to have more problems with smaller wildlife like chipmunks and squirrels than you are bears.

But STILL, one needs to be 'bear aware'.

Keeping a clean campsite is the first line of defense...this means not even pouring the potato/spaghetti water out on to the ground. NO trash of ANY kind left out. Store food and coolers out of sight even if that means throwing a blanket over them.

Oh, and all this is for black bear country...all bets are off in Grizzly territory!!

And no, I've never had a problem in a van! If the wife is still nervous about bears after some reading on it then get her an emergency whistle or air horn and a can of bear spray.

Be warned, you do not want to use the bear spray inside of a vehicle but it might make her sleep more comfortably for the first few months...after that, save it for the hiking trails.

 

[wagoneer]

Besides a bear tearing my car door in half (SUZUKI) drinking my beer and making a general huge mess and i was following the rangers request to store the cooler in the back covered, they never messed with my E350 Or Dodge Ram, that was Cherry lake a long long time ago, when in rural locations I keep a keen eye on the neighbors if any and my vulnerability factor. Plus with the Yeti locked it still is a threat.

 

[Stephen]

Oops! Sorry, Conestoga wagons. So I can't spell.

 

[jimindenver]

We camp in bear country, use to tent in it but not any more. The campgrounds have black boards with a running list of bear sightings but you rarely hear of a attack. In the boondocking area they tend to come down to the empty sites after a big weekend to search for goodies. We see them since we tend to stay through the big weekends, the closest has been a half mile or so.

 

[highdesertranger]

hey hey Boo Boo let's go get some pic a nic baskets.
Mr. Ranger is not going to like it Yogi.

seriously though,  great advice given already.  what I find is if you are in an area where bears can be hunted,  they run from people.  if you are in an area where they are not hunted they have no fear on man and that is where you have problems.  as Almost There said,  all bets are off if you are talking Grizz.



highdesertranger

 

[TrainChaser]

Don't get complacent about large predators, one way or the other; there are no absolutes about them except that they are unpredictable.  Bears are walking garbage cans, and will eat virtually anything.  Your apples are as attractive to them as your meat.  That said, many people never see a bear when they're camping -- probably because they didn't issue any invitations.

As HDR said, where they're hunted they are less of a problem, and where they're fed by humans (directly or indirectly), they are a nuisance and can be a danger.  Nuisance bears are sometimes relocated into other areas; they're still nuisance bears -- nothing has changed.

Bears can get into your vehicle.  It may happen more when they know no people are around, but that probably isn't a guarantee.  They mostly seem to go through the windows:  leave a window down a crack, and they hook their claws in the gap and pull.  Roll them up tight, and they push them in.

Bear spray is more effective than bullets when sprayed into their eyes and nose.  I know all the macho gunaholics will argue, but being scared, w/adrenaline pumping is not the best basis for accurate marksmanship, like it or not.  Ask any cop.  Pepper spray sprayed on and around tents and food containers is a bear attractant, not a deterrent.  Pepper spray for human predators is NOT the same thing as bear spray.

Bear spray is a learning tool for dogs, and it may be for bears, too.

Here's an article from the Fish & Wildlife Service: http://www.bearsmart.com/docs/BearSprayVsBullets.pdf

Bear Deterrents:  http://www.bearsmart.com/live/bear-deterrents/

How to Use Bear Spray:  http://www.bearsmart.com/play/bear-deterrents/bear-pepper-spray/

And for all of the people who think bears can't get into cars:  https://www.google.com/search?q=bea...OAhUW6WMKHVhGAIEQsAQIHg&biw=823&bih=518#imgrc=_

 

[Almost There]

For those that like facts and statistics here's an interesting one that should allay a lot of fears:

The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 1 out of each 16,000 people commits murder each year across North America. *Most attacks by black bears attacks are defensive reactions to a person who is very close, which is an easy situation to avoid.

The site is 'Wise about Bears' and is a really great site to read if you've the slightest bit of hesitation about being in bear country.

http://wiseaboutbears.org/

 

[Gary68]

the deadliest animal in the world is the mosquito,ticks and fleas are nasty too,you should be much more worried about them

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Bear spray is more effective than bullets when sprayed into their eyes and nose.  I know all the macho gunaholics will argue, but being scared, w/adrenaline pumping is not the best basis for accurate marksmanship, like it or not.  Ask any cop.  Pepper spray sprayed on and around tents and food containers is a bear attractant, not a deterrent.  Pepper spray for human predators is NOT the same thing as bear spray.

As somebody who has had a lot of professional training with defensive firearms, I really can't argue with your statement.

However, a few things to keep in mind:

Crosswinds and headwinds greatly reduce the effective range of pepper spray.  If a bear is charging you from directly upwind, the pepper spray is highly likely to blow right back in your face at what can only be described as the worst possible time.

Heavy rain, which is frequent in such places as British Columbia and coastal Alaska, can knock pepper spray down, reducing it's effective range to only a few feet.

Cold weather can also greatly reduce the effective range of pepper spray.

If you spray a bear and he retreats, but then comes back a short time later, it's unlikely to drive him off a second time.  You will need a Plan B.

I highly recommend the book DON'T GET EATEN by Dave Smith, published by The Mountaineers Press.  It has separate chapters devoted to:

Black Bears
Buffalo
Cougars
Coyotes
Grizzly Bears
Javelinas
Moose
Wolves

Finally, let me add one thing.  I watched three one hour videos from the National Geographic.  One each on Black Bears, Grizzlies, and Polar Bears.  I noticed that the expert that was narrating them had a shotgun on his pack.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

For those that like facts and statistics here's an interesting one that should allay a lot of fears:

The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 1 out of each 16,000 people commits murder each year across North America. *Most attacks by black bears attacks are defensive reactions to a person who is very close, which is an easy situation to avoid.

The site is 'Wise about Bears' and is a really great site to read if you've the slightest bit of hesitation about being in bear country.

http://wiseaboutbears.org/

BLACK bears are not the problem.  They are not particularly aggressive, nor are they used to killing animals their own size.  They're usually afraid of humans.

Coastal grizzly bears are extremely well fed by salmon.  They usually ignore people who don't get too close.

Interior grizzly bears are used to killing caribou and elk in order to eat.  They are likely to view a human as another potential meal if they are hungry.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

. . .  Bear spray is more effective than bullets when sprayed into their eyes and nose.  I know all the macho gunaholics will argue, but being scared, w/adrenaline pumping is not the best basis for accurate marksmanship, like it or not . . .

That's my bitch with people who say their bear spray is more effective than my gun.  I have put over 10,000 rounds through my backpacking gun; some of it in as close to a high stress situation as possible.  I have yet to meet someone advocating bear spray as your defense of last resort who has spent more than 15 minutes practicing with it (that includes bear spray advocating FS Rangers I have talked with).  When you are in a high stress situation your higher cognitive functions (logic, coordination) are impaired.  You will respond how you practiced (muscle memory).

That said, I do carry bear spray in bear country.  I really, really do not want a confrontation where I have to kill a bear.  The best deterrent I have found is a boat horn.  Scares the bejebus out of any bear that is not already in attack mode.  And yes I have practiced with bear spray (and gotten it in my eyes when testing it in the wind).  It is harder than you think to hit a stationary target at 30 yards, let alone a moving one.

One more thing.  Bear spray has a shelf life: 5 years I am told (to be effective on bears).  I doesn't go bad, it just becomes less potent over time.

 -- Spiff

 

[TrainChaser]

If people want absolutes with bears, there are none. They're like dealing with people -- you just never know ahead of time how things will play out.

 

[Bast]

I take all reasonable precautions and do not have a death wish but if I get eaten by something so be it.

 

[Vagabound]

“… and there I was, ass-deep in a nest of grizzlies … yep, that’s right.  But as usual, I was wisely armed to the teeth.  Sweat dripping off of my chiseled chin, sun glinting off the Navy-Seal-approved Oakley Half Jacket 2.0 XL titanium sunglasses.  No time to think, saved by muscle memory, my 50-cal sprayed hot lead in every direction … brat-a-brat-a-brat-a-brat-a-brat-a-brat-a-brat-a-brat-a-brat …  When the smoke cleared, the cowering bears had disappeared.  Sorry to say there were no new heads for my overcrowded trophy wall, but every tree I needed for my new stud cabin was laying ... where everything rightly belongs ... at my feet.”

Sorry … just wanted to participate somehow.  

Vagabound

 

[ArtW]

Vagabound that was awesome
That said, while I would barry bear spray in bear country, I would also have a gun
some facts some people miss with defense sprays
1 it's not immediate in it's effect. maybe bear spray is different, I've not sprayed a bear to see, but I have been hit with both tear gas and pepper spray, both take a few seconds to work, and some folks are actually immune (haven't heard of immune bears though)

2 it's pain compliance, at least with pepper spray on humans. If the attacker gets a grip on you, and is determined, he's still a threat. Of course, if a bear gets a grip on you you're likely finished, either way

as spiff noted, it's effect is greatly reduced in some environments, and can actually work against you

bear spray is a good thing, it's not a magical get away free card (nor is a gun, for that matter)

 

[TrainChaser]

Interesting article, and the results aren't what you might think.

"Bear Spray vs Bullets: Which offers better protection?"
http://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf