Kodiak discussion

[Dingfelder]

Would I call you stupid if you pay a company to make your clothing or  deodorants or food from a mix?  

I don't know whether you would, but I'd have to be downwind to answer whether you should.

 

[Dingfelder]

It's a deadly trend in our society, to cluster up in "in" groups and then attack whoever is perceived as "out."  

It sure would be nice to cultivate a culture of welcome and acceptance, regardless of DIY-ness or other status.  I can tell you I'm wary of being judged, and so are most others on the road or prepping to hit the road.  Those who have been on the forums for years might get a bit comfortable where they sit, but please remember that not everyone is comfortable...at all.  

I agree with all of this.  I do think that a really high percentage of people here are nice a really high percentage of the time, and am glad of that.  There's also a way of being nice which is not just attitude alone, but comes from responding to people rather than ignoring them, from contributing knowledge and trying to give solid answers to people's questions.  Even just sharing a hopefully relevant experience is a potential transfer of knowledge.  I see a lot of that here too, both passive and active help and acceptance.

But any new community can be intimidating, and it's good for us to continually muster up goodwill for newcomers.  They don't know the quality of a person or all the help a person may have given; they only know the good that person might give now, or his or her silence or snark.  There are no laurels to rest on when you're talking to a new person.  Or not talking to them.  They've never even heard of you.

I sometimes have wondered whether to bring things up here because it might stir up resentment.  I'm having to outfit my trailer, which means I'll be talking about buying stuff when there are a lot of people here who either can't afford to buy much of anything or who think the obvious thing to do is build something ... with both tools and skills I don't have and may never have.  Even mentally -- I don't know what the heck you folks are talking about a lot of the time ... especially anything electrical for instance.  I know which end of a chicken drumstick to hold, but I only know which end of a hammer to hold by analogy.

People here are mostly very nice and helpful, but I figure sooner or later I'm going to run into the "what a jerk" response somewhere.  In fact I invite anyone who wants to, to just go ahead and do it so we can get over it and put it behind us. :  

Anyway, I continue to appreciate my time here and the people here ... and I can also see why anyone would be a bit nervous in a new community.

 

[Dingfelder]

It is also the case that plain facts plainly stated can often be perceived as attacks, when they go against the mistaken beliefs of the newcomer.

Some are more skilled at gently "breaking the news" about a newbie's ignorance than others.

Some go so far as to say "if they already spent their money, don't make them feel bad about it"

but to me that can lead to other members with the same illusions also wasting* theirs.

*if it is a waste, relative value will of course depend on circumstances

Gotta agree here too.  People is hard.  It can be hard to get everything right even with the best intentions, and even when you do, that doesn't mean it can't be misinterpreted or just somehow taken the wrong way.

I think the main thing is doing things with a truly good spirit.  Some people will sneak negativity in there, figuring the actually good or useful stuff will even it out, maybe convincing themselves that being mean is for someone's "own good."  

But I think a person with integrity, and I mean toward him or herself, knows when they are indulging themselves in some kind of yecch or personal aggression/venting ... and can and therefore usually will keep negativity largely to themselves rather than dumping it onto others ... even with an excuse behind it ...

I believe most of us know when we're doing that, and can reel it in if we want to.

 

[highdesertranger]

well I guess I have a solar generator too. only I called it a battery box.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=14389&highlight=battery+box

you can see it at RTR. total cost for me was under 100 bucks but I am a scrounger.

highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

I charge it when driving from the ALT, from a portable 100w solar suitcase or a 190w AC power supply and small Sportsman gas generator if necessary. If I ever decide I need to I can pump up to 600w into it.

OK, that spec I hadn't come across!

So so let's say it's sitting isolated and fairly depleted. I have a 60A charger, can set any Absorb voltage setpoint I like, derate the current if needed.

What connector type do I use to attach to your Kodiak? I assume some sort of lithium chemistry, do you know which one specifically?

What voltage do I set? Can I leave default 60A capacity, or should output be reduced to say 40A?

When charging starts, what amp rate will I see flowing? At 40A, should recharge to 100% Full in under 2 hours.

Will the BMS automatically cut off the internal batt from the charger's output? If so, is that based on an endAmps setpoint, or hitting a certain voltage?

Now, what if the 50% depleted AGM batt is hooked up, that takes 6-7 hours to get to 100% Full.

Would say a 300AH AGM bank be OK? Do they spec a max size?

Will the BMS just pass-through the charge current after isolating the internal lithium cells?

If the charger is turned off, will the AGM continue to get charged at lower amps from the lithium for the rest of its required cycle?

Now that would be really cool.

I understand if you can't answer these Q's yourself offhand,

(although please do for those you can, most should be easy for someone who actually owns one to test)

so if you have a direct line to engineering or escalated tech support, please PM me, ideally with a specific contact person.

Thanks.

 

[John61CT]

PS I don't recall any untrue negative comments here or harsh snarking at least in this thread so far.

Fanboy enthusiasm will always need to be countered by tough questions and in the end only verified objective tech details count.

 

[John61CT]

I've said it before, who really gives a rip what they are called. Most everyone out there calls them solar generators, works for me. I swear some people here must lose sleep over the term. Seems like there's more important things in life to worry about.

Since you feel the terminology is not important, then just don't use the term this community obviously finds offensively deceptive.

Call your specific instance by its model name if you don't like "high-capacity powerpak" or battery box or whatever.

And if it turns out that model is indeed far superior to the 99% of the product category that are poor value verging on scam rip-offs, don't get offended when the category as a whole is slagged.

IOW don't take it so personal, or some might think you're being paid by Inergy's PR / social marketing firm.

In any case, I look forward to helping establish the bona fides of their tech / customer support by getting the above Q's answered.

 

[dklassen]

Here's what I know. BTW, I have no association and don't make a dime off anyone including Inergy. I'm just a regular guy doing a van conversion who did some research... started looking at Goal Zero first, then found the Kodiak and decided that it was the best option for me. Never heard of a "Solar Generator" before that and knew zip about solar in general.

The Kodiak uses a 90ah NMC lithium. There is a Neutrik port that takes up to 32v DC @ 40amps, 600w maximum. That port is generally connected to my van's 12v port in the back so it's charging while driving. When I'm parked I can plug in my solar suitcase to that same Neutrik port or use Inergy's 190w 15 amp AC quick charger (brick) and plug it into my gas generator. The kodiak handles all the charging, cut-off at full, the external battery charging and balancing even at rest. There's no external solar charger, it's all internal to the Kodiak. Solar panels plug directly into the Neutrik port. You can also hang multiple AGM's off the Kodiak as well.

 

[John61CT]

Sounds good.

All this is FYI not addressed to anyone specific, just in the interest of gathering / increasing known information.

Neutrik is a brand, they make many connector styles.

NMC lasts much fewer cycles than LFP. And need to be careful about fire risk.

They obviously put a converter / charger behind that port for safety, rather than allowing direct charging access.

32V is one limit, 40A another, and 600W a third, since 40A at 32V is more than double 600W.

At normal charging output of ~14V, 600W is around 40A. Higher volts likely need to reduce amps to keep watts under 600.

So one day it would be great to get the related actual-performance Qs answered by someone who owns one and an ammeter.

The 15A charger is obviously not really a "quick" charger, will take 3x longer than at 600W.

"balancing even at rest" likely just means the BMS balancing the internal lithium cells to each other. That term should not be used for "long tail" charging between the powerpak and the external AGM.

Which most likely is my fantasy, does not happen.

If anyone can get answers to my Qs, or gets a direct contact at escalated tech support let me know and I'll follow up.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

No doubt there's a lot of "solar generator" bashing here. Funny since most have never owned one. I've said it before, who really gives a rip what they are called . . .

You should 'gives (sic) a rip what they are called'.  Words have meaning; the more we degrade the meaning the harder it is to communicate and the easier it is for dishonest people to thrive.  You understand that a Kodiak is not self recharging but there are a lot of electrical illiterate folks on this site who will take 'generator' at its dictionary defined meaning.

The Kodiak is a storage device.  It stores chemical energy in an unstable state and releases electrons as it reverts to a more stable state, no electrical generation is involved.  You must connect it to an electric current generator to return it to an unstable state so it can release more electrons.

 The 'bashing' I have seen here comes in two flavors:
     1. Calling it a generator is dishonest; it doesn't fit the defined or commonly understood meaning of the word.
     2. It is expensive for what you get.
The first I have a problem with as described above.
The second IMO should be pointed out for anyone contemplating purchase to know what they are buying and that there are alternatives.

 

[dklassen]

Bottom line is not sure much of that really matters to me in the end. The Kodiak more than meets my power needs, I can recharge relatively fast, it's totally portable and built like a tank.

I know some of you guys like to analyze and dissect every little neutron, but most don't really care. Does it power the stuff I need and can I get juice back in as quickly as I need. That's mostly what I care about.

All you need to do call the Inergy support line, they do have a website and are always willing to help although I'm not sure the purpose. If you aren't interested in owning one what does any of it really matter.

Spiff, as for you man relax a little. The world has bigger problems than solar generators.

"You understand that a Kodiak is not self recharging but there are a lot of electrical illiterate folks on this site who will take 'generator' at its dictionary defined meaning."

That's like saying people who might buy a Honda generator and not realize it needs gas. I don't think people are that stupid.

 

[Dingfelder]

They should just call it a battery. Sure it powers stuff, but not really. Something else powers IT to power stuff. It doesn't generate any more energy than an extension cord does.

 

[John61CT]

"You understand that a Kodiak is not self recharging but there are a lot of electrical illiterate folks on this site who will take 'generator' at its dictionary defined meaning."

That's like saying people who might buy a Honda generator and not realize it needs gas. I don't think people are that stupid.

Not calling anyone stupid, but they do get misled by deceptive marketing hype, as well as the false and abusive use of the term "generator"

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=32866

 

[C-Cat]

It is a generator in the sense that it generates household 120v ac... that makes it quite a bit different than regular battery packs.

 

[John61CT]

That is a result of an included **inverter** function. An inverter is a load device, it only consumes energy, draws down from the battery.

Generation means producing electricity from other sources, not just changing its voltage or type.

You still need to provide energy inputs for recharging the battery. Practical choices are

1 shore power from the electric company

2 a real generator, makes electricity from fossil fuel

3 vehicle alternator while driving around

4 solar panels

 

[dklassen]

"false and abusive use of the term "generator"

Wow, maybe we need a new enforcement agency to track down those ugly perpetrators. This sounds like a serious problem.

 

[John61CT]

I believe you were the one who claimed no one could be duped by the term into thinking it provides an energy source.

And the next person who shows up demonstrates exactly that.

Yes, in a properly regulated society, a consumer protection standard would indeed effectively prosecute to prevent such fraud.

 

[dklassen]

You can't regulate ignorance, if a person can't read for more than 2 minutes it's their problem. Long live the Solar Generator!

 

[C-Cat]

Splitting hairs... in the eyes of a consumer it produces pretty much the same end result as a gasoline generator - 120v ac from a small portable device, though with limitations (mainly run-time) - I bet some people are perfectly fine with one of these "solar generators" at a tailgate party or at the beach, running their blender or other household appliance with ease and no noise or fumes. A "solar generator" is not meant to replace a "gasoline generator"...

 

[John61CT]

Yes that is the target market, people who leave home for the day or overnight, the come back to plug into mains.

The resulting design choices are less than ideal for fulltime dwellers who may only very rarely see shore power.