Killed starter battery -- ideas for avoiding same mistake

[Stargazer]

First real trip out in 2011 Pleasure Way.  Current setup is new sealed starter battery separated from also new sealed RV/marine deep cycle house battery.  House battery is charged by alternator while running, generator, or shore power.  It also has a battery cutoff switch (just FYI, not applicable to the current problem).  You cannot start the engine from the house battery.

As with most vehicles, when you open a door the interior (cab only) dome lights come on.  And with this van, ALL exterior running lights also come on.  Lots of those!  They stay on for ten seconds after you close the door.  Leave the door open, they stay on for ten minutes before going off.

I am currently parked with shore power, am in and out many times a day.  After two weeks (not running engine), the starter battery died.  Battery checked with a meter and it's good, just run way down.  Placed it on a charger and it started after 15 minutes.  Left the automatic charger on overnight -- showed fully charged, no problem.

I assume (!) all those lights ran down the battery.  Thinking of silent drainage, looked for and found no dash lights on (clock, radio, etc) and there is no alarm system.  So now every few days, I run the engine (on idle) for 30-45 minutes.  To avoid this problem in the future, I have located the switch in the door that activates all the lights when the door is open.  It looks like it would be easy to disconnect that switch.  BUT.. Will it disconnect anything else??

Other choices:

Carry another battery.  I don't think I could handle the weight myself.  Too heavy for me and takes up valuable space.  Also, the discharging will eventually kill my new battery.

Add a switch that will deactivate the door opening setup.  Had that on my previous conversion van and it was great!  A switch on the dash that shut off that door activating system.  This I can have done by someone who knows what they're doing.

Any other ideas?  I'm open to suggestions.  I will be leaving here the end of the week and hope to be dry camping and don't want to be stranded out there.  (I do carry jumper cables.)

Am helping my elderly Mom this week so am only on here mornings and evenings so will reply then to any posts.

Thanks to all!

 

[Stargazer]

Have already read this:

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Reduce-starter-battery-drain?page=2

 

[wagoneer]

Battery isolator switch red knob big copper push turn, remove red key it's a theft deterrent device any car parts store.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

1: Replace all of the incandescent bulbs that come on with LED replacement bulbs.  This will reduce the battery drain SIGNIFICANTLY.

2:  The door jamb switch can have a piece of duct tape put over it to hold it depressed, possibly with a small bit of an old credit card between the switch and the tape to prevent the switch from punching through the tape.  This can be removed when not on camping trips, to restore functionality during normal driving.

3:  Carry a lithium ion jump starter pack.  Very light.

 

[highdesertranger]

I like the, add a switch to disable the door switch. also a good idea is hooking the house battery into the vehicles charge system so it will charge when you dive and also be able to start the van, however this does not fix the underlining problem. highdesertranger

 

[Trebor English]

My 1999 Ford Windstar has a FEM, Font Electronic Module, and a REM, Rear Electronic Module.  They talk to each other using the network.  When a door opens or closes four relays turn on.  Power is supplied to everything.  The rear liftgate is magnetically sensed by the REM.  The other doors are magnetically sensed by the FEM.  The only way to stop all this is a battery disconnect.  

Since I have only one battery I have a switch that disconnects all the van stuff and still have the solar and RV stuff connected.

 

[Gideon33w]

If you are going to be parked long term and worry about the daily in/out draining the batt you can get small solar battery tenders. You can set them right on the dash, stick them to a window, or run the lead outside and stick it to the roof while stationary. They give you just enough juice to keep the starter battery topped off. Available in 5 to 15 watts and start around $20 as a self contained unit. Plugs right into a cigarette lighter.

That said, I don't like the dome lights coming on when I'm getting in/out. Draws attention. Disabling them is a better idea.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Disabling the door switches is certainly one way to fix this. Just FYI, its not just the lights that drain the battery during door opening events.

That also wakes up the engine computer. ECM, PCM, or whatever it is called in your van.  It will stay alert, and processing, for some period of time. You didnt mention the chassis make, but an average is for the computer to stay on and pulling current for a half hour or so.

This computer will draw a few amps normally, and if you are in and out several times a day, inside and outside lights are coming on, computer is waking up, after several days of no input, only constant drain, the battery drops to the point that the engine wont start.

One way to fix this is with a small solar panel on the roof whose only job is to maintain the starting battery. It doesnt take a large panel. A 5 to 10  watt panel will work. Of course this assumes you will be parking in full sun most of the time.

All the panel needs to do is balance out the parasitic drain from operating the lights and the ECM during 'waking' events. Or if you have solar panels now, you could, with a small switch and wiring, divert some charging current to the starting battery.

You can also buy a heavy duty battery disconnect switch and then simply open the hood and turn the entire chassis off, the downside is you wont be able to start the engine until you open the hood, (might be an issue) and all of your engine computer learned settings, (think emissions control) and all of your radio settings will be lost each time.

Pulling the lighting and engine computer fuses is not a good option, but it could be done. It's not usually simple, depending on the fuse panel location and the ease of pulling the fuses and reinstalling them each time. But it is a cost-free option to consider if you know you will be parked for a week or two in a remote location.

 

[Weight]

I have an older van. I disconnected the rear door switches and the side door switches. Lights go on with the driver and passenger door but not the others. I plan to connect all the interior lighting and radio to the house battery. Because of other upgrades, now that is low priority. If I had a newer vehicle, anything I changed would be easy to reverse. Carrying a quick start pack is not a bad idea, if you can recharge. I do have a set of extra long jumper cables. A study could find the wire to transfer door switches to the house bank and take the lights off the starter. Many marine set ups have all the 12 volt systems, except engine and other running circuits, connected to the house bank. LEDs should already be in your interior, get to it.

 

[jonyjoe303]

One thing to check is your battery cables to make sure they are tight. I owned my van almost 5 years and I was always having slow cranking after parked 3 days, sometimes overnight. Every monday morning I wonder if it was going to start.

Replaced battery 3 times, always bought a used battery (for around 35 dollars) and thought that was my problem. Maybe I was buying weak batteries but they cranked me over though sometimes very slow.

Finally found one of my battery side post was not getting tightend all the way down (not enough threads), replaced the terminals and that fixed the problem. 

The only reason I found the problem was because i was going to connect some wires to solar charge the start battery on the weekends. Otherwise I would have never suspected I had a loose connection.

I recommend you get a digital meter that you plug in your 12 volt receptacle. Even park several days it should be at 12.5 volts

 

[Stargazer]

Wow!  Great ideas and explanations, too.

It's a Ford E-350, 2011, 5.4L V-8.  Plain Jane stuff on the dash, no gps, no backup camera, no blue tooth, just radio/CD player with aux port, standard dash AC/heat and it does have cruise control.  Also, all of the house lights are LED.  Not the dome or running lights, though.

The house battery is charged while running.  No problem there.  But there is no switch or ? to start the engine with the house battery.  Had that feature on a Class A years ago but never had to use it.

The battery isolator switch sounds quick and easy.  I will definitely check into that.
If I do that isolator switch and lose all that information from the computer, what will happen?  Will it relearn it on its own?  Like when you actually disconnect the starter battery?  I did not know about waking up the computer!  That explains a lot!

The door jamb switch is very difficult to push in.  I don't think covering it would work unless I screwed a metal plate on over it.  I don't care if the lights don't come on with that side door because the house light switches are right inside the door.  And like someone else said, I don't like that anyone can tell when I'm going in or out, especially at night.  The running iights at the roofline front and back, the tail lights and front parking lights all come on, quite a pretty display, saying "Yoo Hoo!  Here I am!"  Not!  As for pulling fuses, not something I want to do.  Seems there is always a surprise when you do that, lol.  And OMG, there are a bunch of them!!  Took one look inside that fuse box under the hood and saw my life pass before my eyes.

I also like the idea of a small solar charger.  Where would I go for that?  Auto Zone or ?  I do not have house solar, maybe some day, it just seems to complicate my life by adding another system to maintain.  And I am a shade seeker.  But for this application, will seriously look into that.

The battery cables were replaced when the new battery was installed.  They are on there good and tight.  Thanks for that reminder.

Thank you all for your ideas.  This is a great group of peeps.

 

[Gideon33w]

I've seen little 5 and 10 watt all in one chargers at Autozone. Pretty sure they are amorphous panels which provide output even in shade. No maintenance needed. They are cheap and disposable basically.

 

[tx2sturgis]

It's a Ford E-350, 2011, 5.4L V-8. 

{snip}

The running lights at the roofline front and back, the tail lights and front parking lights all come on, quite a pretty display, saying "Yoo Hoo!  Here I am!"  

{snip}

As for pulling fuses, not something I want to do.  Seems there is always a surprise when you do that, lol.  And OMG, there are a bunch of them!! 

Ok...this narrows it down...

Exterior lighting during door opening is almost certainly a programmable parameter in the PCM, and/or the BCM (Power Control Module and Body Control Module)

Interior lighting during door opening can't normally be defeated with programming UNLESS you have the optional Police BCM in your Ford. Lets assume that you dont, for obvious reasons.

It is possible, and I repeat, POSSIBLE, that you can have a competent Ford dealer re-flash your PCM so that the exterior lights do not come on during door opening.

I went thru this for several months (for a different reason) and 4 different visits to the dealership and finally I was able to source a TSB (with the help of a Ford Customer Service rep) and shoved it under the nose of the dealership and they were able to reflash the PCM to my specs. It cost an hours labor but it was what I wanted.

Now...if you want that 'feature' disabled, it might involve some effort on your part to get it done...is it worth it? Only you can decide that. I'm just letting you know that the option is out there, if you wish to pursue it.

And BTW, that fuse panel you saw under the hood is only 1/2 of the fuses on the van, the other half is under the dashboard.

Yeah....SO not kidding. NASA has nothing on Ford when it comes to complexity.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I also like the idea of a small solar charger.  Where would I go for that? 

If you want to add a small solar panel, I would avoid the ones that plug into the lighter socket for a few reasons:

They tend to be cheap plastic junk, and some lighter plugs make poor or intermittent contact. Plus they get really hot sitting on the dashboard.

You can buy a small 5 watt panel with a real aluminum frame and this can be mounted on the top of your roof and small gauge wires will then run directly to the starting battery. You will need a blocking diode and fuse but no solar controller is needed, because the current supplied is very low, and only supplied during daylight hours (duh). It will function similar to a trickle charger, but it wont actually charge the battery, it will really just maintain it.  

I have used this arrangement for years on 2 different vehicles. It keeps the battery healthy, and unless you leave your headlights on for many hours, it can help balance out reasonable parasitic loads.

This would take a small amount of work to install. Someone technically proficient will need to help you or just pay someone to do it.

In the end, you might just find it much easier to carry a jump-pack or jumper cables to get you thru a no-start situation.

 

[SternWake]

a 5 or 10 watt panel would likely not have been enough to offset the other parasitic loads, just increase the time to full 'no start' drainage level.

Remove these loads, somehow, when the doors are open, and get LEDs into the courtesy lights too.

My much older van has a small parasitic draw if the doors are open, even if the dome lights are turned off. I have to rotate my headlamp switch all the way clockwise past the detente, which kills the dome lights and would dim the dashboard lights all the way, IF I had the headlights ON.

There is a small time delay relay which draws 0.2 amps If I do not rotate this switch all the way clockwise and the doors are open. I also pulled out the buzzer on day one of my ownership, which would sound if lights were on with engine off, and or doors open with key ignition.

Some cars whose door open plunger would be closer to the hinge, i;d find something to wedge in between to hold this shut, and also keep the door propped open.

 

[Stargazer]

Some yoyo set it up this way (what were they thinking?) and you're saying it may be possible for Ford to just reprogram it? Seriously?! And I wouldn't have to mess with it again later?! . Good grief.

These are some really good ideas and I do so appreciate all this inout. And I'm also learning new things, exercise the brain cells. A Good Thing.

 

[Stargazer]

Stern Wake,

I tried turning the dimmer switch for dash lights down to "off", no change, outside lights still on.
If I leave the door open, all those lights turn off and stay off after ten minutes until another door is opened or that one is closed and reopened. It actually states this in the owner's manual and I have seen it happen when I was loading up for this summer and just left the door open.

Will try several things with that door switch tomorrow as a temporary measure for now. Ha! Wish me luck.

 

[Gideon33w]

The last one of those little solar battery tenders I got was an Autozone model and while it came with the cigarette lighter adapter it also came with a cable end for hooking straight to the battery. Diode and simple regulator were housed inside the panel unit. The frame was just plastic but it lasted for the 3y I used even here in the AZ sun.

 

[Stargazer]

UPDATE:

This morning I had time to take a good look at the switch and wiring.  It appeared the switch that activated the lights when the door is opened was wired separately from anything else (the door lock had its own separate wire).

The switch was pushed through the door frame and held on with a nut.  Unscrewed the nut, pushed the switch through the door frame and was able to access it from the "cubby" on the door.  It's a plug in switch.  Unplugged the switch from the wire and TA DA!  Lights off and nothing else seems to be affected (so far).  To put it back together will take maybe two minutes!  Hopefully this will work as at least a temporary solution.

Now, the question is does the computer wake up and create battery drain?  Hmmm...

 

[Stargazer]

And many thanks to all your posts/ideas!