Interesting Articles Relating to EVs

[Happy Camper]

But it's such a nice drain...

 

[Gr8ful]

Tesla's Being Sued by 28 Calif Counties for Hazardous Waste Handling​

 

[RonDean]

Tesla's Being Sued by 28 Calif Counties for Hazardous Waste Handling​

1. I don't trust ANYTHING from Scotty, the source of this video. He has posted way too many clickbait and biased videos.
2. While I once was a Musk fan, I am no longer. That doesn't mean everything he touches is now suspect.
3. I once worked at a company in NV making circuit boards. For those who do not know, this requires the use of some very "bad" chemicals. The company had all the necessary procedures in place but it was all undone by a couple of lazy idiot employees who poured some of these chemicals into a drain that allowed them to reach the water table. When a nearby rancher discovered contaminated ground water it was traced back to us. We ended up buying the ranch and other impacted properties, paying for remediation, and the company eventually closed the facility (along with my job) and moved it to Indonesia. I can just visualize how someone wanting "eyes" on a video in today's internet world might portray it. I'm not saying that everything Scotty says is not true, but I urge you to fact-check and see if there is more to the story. It will be easy to find EV "haters" but look for the reverse as well. https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf provides Tesla's own Impact Report.
4. Musk's companies, by their nature, are going to draw fire. Tesla sells directly to the public and competes against traditional automakers. That means a lot of people, from the automakers, local car dealerships, mechanics, and the entire oil and gas industry and not going to be fans. It seems as if every one of his companies threatens someone else's business and that is not going to sit well with any of them.

As I said, I don't especially appreciate some of Musk's utterances, but there are now over 100,000 people working for his companies. None of them are responsible for the stupid things Musk says or does. So... I urge you just do some independent fact-checking before buying into anti-EV stories.

 

[Gr8ful]

Ron, 2 clicks on google proves it in way less time than it took to type your post. Why didn't you just check before the lecture? There are pages & pages from many sources. Doesn't this fit Interesting Articles Relating to EVs?
https://apnews.com/article/tesla-ca...e-settlement-ea1eb742720b8a1fefe38a45407a8a9b

 

[RonDean]

Ron, 2 clicks on google proves it in way less time than it took to type your post. Why didn't you just check before the lecture?
https://apnews.com/article/tesla-ca...e-settlement-ea1eb742720b8a1fefe38a45407a8a9b

I read your link - and others as well. The counties accused Tesla of violating state unfair business and hazardous waste management laws by improperly labeling waste and sending the materials to landfills that cannot accept hazardous material. The district attorneys' statements said Tesla cooperated with the investigation and acted to improve compliance with laws that were brought to its attention by the prosecutors. The settlement includes $1.3 million in civil penalties, $200,000 to cover the costs of the investigation, training of employees, and third-party waste audits... The "Waste produced or handled at the facilities includes paint materials, brake fluids, used batteries, antifreeze, and diesel fuel, the counties said."

I would point out that any of those could have as easily, or more so, been produced by many IC-related companies. I DO NOT see anything that shows there was a procedural or policy failure by Tesla rather than an employee screwup. Did you read my personal experience with individual employees causing a problem? I also know that large companies will often pay civil lawsuits because that is cheaper than fighting them. Nor do I see this as an indictment against EVs in general.

But - I am sorry you felt my response was a "lecture." I have often felt that way about many other replies which disagree with me.

 

[Gr8ful]

Ron, why so defensive? You didn't post links proving your claims but I believe you. Isn't this thread title Interesting Articles Relating to EVs? Doesn't this fit? Why didn't you answer that the 1st time I asked you? It's not worth our time arguing over IMHO.

 

[Happy Camper]

Here you guys go. I won't watch a video that I have to wait to get the answer after 2 commercials. But I can do a quick search and find it in writing, which I prefer.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/tesla...alifornia-hazardous-waste-lawsuit-2024-02-02/

 

[RonDean]

Ron, why so defensive? You didn't post links proving your claims but I believe you. Isn't this thread title Interesting Articles Relating to EVs? Doesn't this fit? Why didn't you answer that the 1st time I asked you? It's not worth our time arguing over IMHO.

G8, I don't understand THIS post. I don't feel defensive, but I suppose I could ask you the same. In one post you said: "Ron, 2 clicks on google proves it in way less time than it took to type your post. Why didn't you just check before the lecture?" In this one, you asked: "Why didn't you answer that the 1st time I asked you?" - If I were so inclined, I don't think a bit of defensiveness might not be called for from that.

I am not sure what you are asking or saying. I thought my response should be just as interesting to the EV subject as the video. Do you not think it is important (or interesting) to understand that there are many reasons for some people and industries to not like Tesla? Nor do I think the original story explains enough.

Yes, I support EVs. No, they are not entirely without blame. Fine...
But let's keep things in perspective. Just how much environmental damage do the IC vehicle manufacturers or oil companies do to our environment? I wish we could sue THEM for the damage they do. There is a lot of information out there on that as well. Easy to google.

And I agree with Happy's comment about videos vs. text. His link provided about all the same info as mine did. Without me having to watch ads just to GET to the video.

 

[Gr8ful]

Ron, when I post non you tube links you said you didn't open links you weren't sure was safe. I don't watch commercials on you tube as I have ad block & ad block plus. My post fit thread. did it not?
I'm really tired of making a post, proving them with facts & then having to be lectured & go back & forth with the few pissers & moaners every single time. Have a good life.

 

[Happy Camper]

More than two things can be true. Even on the same subject.

 

[Gr8ful]

More than two things can be true. Even on the same subject.

HC, as you started this thread please tell me why my post doesn't fit & what two things can be true with my post as it's the truth or if you disagree, why. I found the same link you did but Ron stated he didn't read unknown post so I posted you tube & now he has issues with that. Let me know how this one proven post can be 2 things being true, Thanks!

Tesla's Being Sued by 28 Calif Counties for Hazardous Waste Handling​

 

[RonDean]

More than two things can be true. Even on the same subject.

Ron, when I post non you tube links you said you didn't open links you weren't sure was safe. I don't watch commercials on you tube as I have ad block & ad block plus. My post fit thread. did it not?
I'm really tired of making a post, proving them with facts & then having to be lectured & go back & forth with the few pissers & moaners every single time. Have a good life.

So....
Here are my objections.
1. I posted about Tesla, EVs, and other related subjects. G8 made it personal and posted about ME and what I should have done differently. I think that is worth a little reconsideration.

2. I previously said I dislike videos for TWO reasons, not just safety, which I think still CAN be an issue. But the time-wasting aspect of videos and their associated ad content is probably much more of a concern to me. Yes, I occasionally watch YouTube videos - when I'm looking for entertainment or have time I want to fill. But for actual research and information? Not so much. Because of the aforementioned time issue and also because of the way YouTube reward algorithm works to encourage sensationalism and just count the number of eyeballs. I don't expect anyone else to do the same, and I only bring it up at all to point out that safety is not my only concern.

 

[user 22017]

I read your link - and others as well. The counties accused Tesla of violating state unfair business and hazardous waste management laws by improperly labeling waste and sending the materials to landfills that cannot accept hazardous material. The district attorneys' statements said Tesla cooperated with the investigation and acted to improve compliance with laws that were brought to its attention by the prosecutors. The settlement includes $1.3 million in civil penalties, $200,000 to cover the costs of the investigation, training of employees, and third-party waste audits... The "Waste produced or handled at the facilities includes paint materials, brake fluids, used batteries, antifreeze, and diesel fuel, the counties said."

I would point out that any of those could have as easily, or more so, been produced by many IC-related companies. I DO NOT see anything that shows there was a procedural or policy failure by Tesla rather than an employee screwup. Did you read my personal experience with individual employees causing a problem? I also know that large companies will often pay civil lawsuits because that is cheaper than fighting them. Nor do I see this as an indictment against EVs in general.

But - I am sorry you felt my response was a "lecture." I have often felt that way about many other replies which disagree with me.

Why defend an environmental violation? Very bizarre.

 

[Happy Camper]

I would respond, but I have the feeling a number of these posts will be deleted soon. Including my response if I were to post one.

 

[user 22017]

I would respond, but I have the feeling a number of these posts will be deleted soon. Including my response if I were to post one.

true dat, lol

 

[Gr8ful]

I would respond, but I have the feeling a number of these posts will be deleted soon. Including my response if I were to post one.

Happy post what you will. What I posted was totally true & matched the forum's title that you started. My mistake was letting myself be drawn into an argument by someone with only one view on EVs so there's no room for discussion but that won't happen again. “You will never win an argument with a fool, because he only listens to his own voice.” – Shannon L. Alder

 

[Gr8ful]

2023 Toyota Mirai Gets $40,000 Cash Incentive, Is Now Dirt Cheap​

Factor in the $15,000 in free fuel, and the 2023 Mirai becomes among the most affordable cars on sale. Mirai's cost would be approximately $12,000​

https://insideevs.com/news/710678/2023-toyota-mirai-steep-discounts/

 

[RonDean]

Happy post what you will. What I posted was totally true & matched the forum's title that you started. My mistake was letting myself be drawn into an argument by someone with only one view on EVs so there's no room for discussion but that won't happen again. “You will never win an argument with a fool, because he only listens to his own voice.” – Shannon L. Alder

And you probably don't think this is a personal attack either. <Shrug>

But I do agree that an honest discussion with some people is not possible.

 

[RonDean]

Why defend an environmental violation? Very bizarre.

Carla,
Not once did I defend an environmental violation. I simply pointed out that there are many reasons some industries might have to attack Tesla. I'm fine with fining Tesla for any violations. I want any manufacturers held to higher standards. But, on the general topic of EVs vs. ICV, I would also like to see the car and the gas makers fined for their equivalent violations as well. But we have unfortunately become desensitized and accepting of the environmental harm THEY do.

I did an internet search asking, "How does combustion affect the environment?"
The answer was: Carbon dioxide is always released when hydrocarbons are burned. It is a leading cause of global climate change and the acidification of oceans. Although carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that helps to keep us warm, too much greenhouse gas could result in global warming. -May 23, 2018

Also: Burning them (fossil fuel) creates climate change and releases pollutants that lead to early death, heart attacks, respiratory disorders, stroke, asthma, and absenteeism at school and work. It has also been linked to autism spectrum disorder and Alzheimer's disease.

When I also searched for: Are electric cars bad for the environment?
There is a myth that Electric vehicles are worse for the climate than gasoline cars because of power plant emissions. FACT: Electric vehicles typically have a smaller carbon footprint than gasoline cars, even when accounting for the electricity used for charging. Electric vehicles (EVs) have no tailpipe emissions. Aug 28, 2023

So... I might ask, How can anyone NOT want more EVs and fewer ICVs on the road?

 

[user 22017]

Carla,
Not once did I defend an environmental violation. I simply pointed out that there are many reasons some industries might have to attack Tesla. I'm fine with fining Tesla for any violations. I want any manufacturers held to higher standards. But, on the general topic of EVs vs. ICV, I would also like to see the car and the gas makers fined for their equivalent violations as well. But we have unfortunately become desensitized and accepting of the environmental harm THEY do.

Yes, you were defending Tesla. Also, I'm sure government entities fine IC manufacturers, too. Here is what you said:

The counties accused Tesla of violating state unfair business and hazardous waste management laws by improperly labeling waste and sending the materials to landfills that cannot accept hazardous material. The district attorneys' statements said Tesla cooperated with the investigation and acted to improve compliance with laws that were brought to its attention by the prosecutors. The settlement includes $1.3 million in civil penalties, $200,000 to cover the costs of the investigation, training of employees, and third-party waste audits... The "Waste produced or handled at the facilities includes paint materials, brake fluids, used batteries, antifreeze, and diesel fuel, the counties said."

I would point out that any of those could have as easily, or more so, been produced by many IC-related companies. I DO NOT see anything that shows there was a procedural or policy failure by Tesla rather than an employee screwup.