Interesting Articles Relating to EVs

[Happy Camper]

If it's that hard to store how has the hydrogen based Mirai been in production for so many years?

They are actually working on hydrogen hybrids. At the moment Honda is testing it's hydrogen hybrids cr-v in the US and Japan. Toyota is doing the same with their cars.

Plug in Hydrogen hybrids would seem to be the best of both worlds. Less strain on the grid while offering much longer range. And being clean emissions wise.

 

[bullfrog !]

It seems there may be more than one way to deal with hydrogen fuel cells as well in the future maybe?

 

[Happy Camper]

It seems there may be more than one way to deal with hydrogen fuel cells as well in the future maybe?

Everyone wants to tell me to trust the science constantly unless science doesn't work for them.

Hydrogen can work. Electric works diesel works water works etc.

They just need to science the crap out of it. Because science, and results, aren't static in a vacuum. I look forward to seeing what they come up with if given enough runway.

Hybrid owners used to think they were the future and gas was bad. Now EV owners think they are the future and hybrid are bad. At some point someone will look back on EV and think the same.

Change is the constant.

 

[wanderlust]

re hydrogen-based Mirai: answer is a simple google search away.

"How much is a tank of hydrogen for Toyota Mirai?
A Mirai takes a total of five kilograms of hydrogen. So a full tank would cost around $180 and return 312 miles of EPA-estimated range (taking the 2018 model as an example). That works out to 58 cents per mile, which is abysmal."

So yes, such Mirai might be in production - but how many they sell per year? And to whom? For 58 cents per mile you can have big RV. Considering total lack of hydrogen refueling station, it is only for some experimental use.

So why invest in hydrogen technology, if there are existing technologies like metanol or butanol which does not need scientific breakthroughs, just to scale up?

 

[Gr8ful]

Toyota Mirai Sales Figures | GCBC​

goodcarbadcar.net
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net › toyota-mirai-sales-fi...



US Annual Sales ; 2017, 1,838 ; 2018, 1,689 ; 2019, 1,502 ; 2020, 499.

 

[wanderlust]

you proved my point. Mirai is far from a commercial success. Having it might be "virtue signalling", but it is not as obvious signal (just another lame sedan) as was having Prius back in days - and also, second gen Prius had distinctive design (stronger signal).

I do hope that we can find a way to lower emissions, but hydrogen cars doesn't seems to be that solution.
Hydrogen seems to be better stored as used in the production of methane.

 

[Happy Camper]

At this point I'm glad they are working on different methods to do the same thing. Which is move our vehicles when and where we need them to go.

Who knows what they'll come up with next. I remember when compressed natural gas (CNG) was going to be the best thing ever. Now it's not. Electric has they title at the moment. And might not 20 years from now.

The race goes on.

 

[RonDean]

I am also happy to see continued science and development of new ideas. It's just that I think they might be coming at this from two opposed directions. There could be people just looking for a slightly different approach that still maintains their current profit margins. And there (hopefully) are people that see a climate and heath problem related to transportation and are seeking to solve that. Naturally I am more in favor of the latter.

We have yet to find a transportation energy source without problems. Even horses produced a certain amount of waste. When I think of Hydrogen as a fuel source, I can't help but think of the Hindenburg and the reason air ships switched to Helium. Not insurmountable, but on the whole EVs just make better sense to me than any of the other options I see or hear about. They are also a lot closer to meeting our needs today. And the time factor of exactly when we can stop burning fossil fuel is not without some urgency. I suspect that the folks making money on that industry are quite willing to keep dangling shinny objects at us to delay such an eventual conversion.

 

[Happy Camper]

Those making good profits on EV and related sectors will be just as resistant to change as the oil companies have been in protecting their profits.

Corporations and profiteers will do whatever makes the most sense to their bottom line. See Google as an example. After all, they started with the company goal of "Don't be evil". They have since removed that from their mission statement.

 

[RonDean]

Happy, No argument on EV companies taking a similar stance. But when something better comes along (and I'm still here) I'll probably be in favor of that better thing - whatever it is. That is assuming it can be harvested for free like sunlight! If it requires me queuing up at some kind of pump and laying out cash, I will be questioning how is it better overall? Yes, there are fast charging EV kiosks, but we don't have to use them if we are willing to take more time charging.

 

[wanderlust]

we don't have to use them if we are willing to take more time charging.

I read about some quirky Germans with a VW camper converted to electric. They towed a trailer with solar panels. For every day they travelled, other day they camped all day, unloaded all the panels to charge the van. It takes A LOT OF TIME to charge a van by solar alone.

Carbo fuel is all that stored solar energy. Easy to transfer to your tank. That's why I am so excited by harnessing millions years of evolution in the form of bacteria producing butanol.

 

[Gr8ful]

Sorry, wrong you tube!​

 

[RonDean]

I read about some quirky Germans with a VW camper converted to electric. They towed a trailer with solar panels. For every day they travelled, other day they camped all day, unloaded all the panels to charge the van. It takes A LOT OF TIME to charge a van by solar alone.

Carbo fuel is all that stored solar energy. Easy to transfer to your tank. That's why I am so excited by harnessing millions years of evolution in the form of bacteria producing butanol.

Wander, Yes, I've seen similar stories and videos. That was with yesterday's and today's EV tech. I'm hoping for improvements that will creep us forward enough to power an RV for 1 day for every day we collect sunlight, I could live with that. If science comes up with a way WE can collect bacteria-based fuel that burns without pollution I'll certainly take a look at it. If it is still something I have to buy I'll consider solar better.

 

[rruff]

Both tanks of pressurized hydrogen gas or refrigerated liquid hydrogen have serious safety issues that, while solvable, are expensive to solve correctly.

Even when battery tech was primitive, H2 didn't make sense. The need for super high pressures/extreme low temperatures just to store it, and the losses involved, make it a very inefficient battery substitute. Plus it takes a lot more electricity to produce H2 if you use electrolysis than what you can get out of it. Currently almost all of it is made from fossil fuels!

It always seemed like H2 was what the oil companies favored since the high cost would keep fossil fuels viable for longer.

 

[rruff]

Even horses produced a certain amount of waste.

What an understatement! Let's just say that cities across the world became much cleaner and less odiferous when black exhaust belching engines replaced manure spewing ones...

It takes A LOT OF TIME to charge a van by solar alone.

That's because cars are ridiculously heavy for the payload they typically haul. EVs could benefit greatly from lighter weight and efficiency, because the battery weight tends to be a high % of the total. In other words make them more like a velomobile, but ditch the pedals for an electric motor and battery, and the battery size needed and the amount of electricity consumed would be tiny.

 

[Happy Camper]

That's because cars are ridiculously heavy for the payload they typically haul. EVs could benefit greatly from lighter weight and efficiency, because the battery weight tends to be a high % of the total. In other words make them more like a velomobile, but ditch the pedals for an electric motor and battery, and the battery size needed and the amount of electricity consumed would be tiny.

And EVs are even heavier. Which wears out tires much faster apparently, leaving more rubber dust, according to some studies. So good and bad. They can probably figure that out.

The percentage of Americans that would buy an EV velomobile would be minimal. Look at how many tiny "Smart" cars have sold. A one or two person vehicle doesn't really work for the average person. Even trucks almost all have extended cabs these days.

Take the the mini Cooper. Sold well. Can fit 4 humans if needed and is sporty and has a classic look. Mom can still get the kids to school if needed.

These specially cars and use cases work very well in smaller countries that don't have very large population and have the ability to make changes nationwide that doesn't wreak havoc on their roads and cities.

Everyone says Norway is the gold standard of EV adoption. But Norway has half the population of LA county and 140k more square miles. And ironically they have a very high income per person because of their export of petroleum.

Bottom line is that we mostly have the infrastructure we have. And can adjust to some extent. But we can't rip and replace most of it. So if it's hydrogen, electric, CNG, captured cattle farts, whatever, and it improves things, I'm for it.
But forced wholesale change is almost impossible at best.

 

[wanderlust]

That's because cars are ridiculously heavy for the payload they typically haul. EVs could benefit greatly from lighter weight and efficiency,

... said a person who has van as the only vehicle

So yes, such solar-powered velomobile EVs *could* be used for commute. But, unless I am mistaken, we are talking about using EVs for vanliving? Which assumes heavy vehicles, so heavy batteries and heavy solar panels, to power no only our smartphones and fridges, but also engines to move the whole thing to the next place hundred miles away?

 

[Happy Camper]

... said a person who has van as the only vehicle

So yes, such solar-powered velomobile EVs *could* be used for commute. But, unless I am mistaken, we are talking about using EVs for vanliving? Which assumes heavy vehicles, so heavy batteries and heavy solar panels, to power no only our smartphones and fridges, but also engines to move the whole thing to the next place hundred miles away?

But it's free!!!

Then again so it's pushing your vehicle. Doesn't mean it's feasible. Yet.

 

[BelgianPup]

"Even horses produced a certain amount of waste".

Except that housewives would see the 'deposit' and run out with a dust pan, scoop it up, and deposit it in the vegetable garden.

 

[jasper]

Unless that horse has been eating hay from grass sprayed with grazon herbicide for weeds. It remains in the poop and will poison vegetables. Fortunately, I only lost a small patch of ground. I have neighbors who have temporarily ruined an entire garden plot.