Inflation, real income, and politics Moved from: Interesting Articles Relating to EVs

[Happy Camper]

Where are the 15% on the left passing or stopping legislation?

A true believer that a "side" of the political spectrum is completely and correct on everything is exactly the voter that they hope to groom in whatever ways they can.

I have yet to see any political party, worldwide, that I can agree with on every point of their platform. Yet that is what is being fostered these days. You vote for the platform or you're not one of us.

Why do you think moderates get frustrated on either side of the aisle? Because they can't just vote what they think. Politics today is more of a football game than government. Complete with cheerleaders and fans that will follow that team no matter what.

In the last few weeks a couple of democratic members of the congressional progressive caucus left that group because they didn't think like everyone else regarding Israel and Gaza. That is one issue out of many that the cpc push with their agenda and platform. But that one thing they don't agree on makes them not a part of that group.

Same thing happens on the Republican side. Just with different issues. Same game. Change the names. Change the issue. Same results.

I'm not here to give you exact points to debate with me regarding the left. Or the right if that's your thing. If you can't see for yourself what I'm explaining, you might be part of the problem I'm explaining. Critical thinking and being honest outside of what you would prefer is what we as a country need. Practical thinking with practical action applied.

Do we want to feel better? Or do we want to be better. Because right now we're doing neither. We're just stuck watching two teams play a game.

Idealism is important in life. But so is realism. And in our current political climate, there's not a lot of real movement forward that works for everyone.

 

[rruff]

A $100 when in circulation can result in the purchase of thousands, which is why I keep emphasizing ‘the flow’.

I don't see how the "flow" is relevant to anything. If you have something I want to buy and you want to sell it, it's a lot easier for me to give you dollars rather than find some other item you want in exchange.

The $100 I give you doesn't "result" in anything, except that you now have $100 that you can spend. Previously you had $100 in assets instead, which is now mine. Nothing was created or destroyed as far assets or wealth are concerned. Neither of us is richer or poorer. If that $100 changes hands a thousand times, there still won't be anything created, and no one will be richer or poorer. The money simply made the transactions easier.

If the item I bought was something you made in your shop, then the money I gave you was compensation for your work and expenses. Most likely I obtained the money in the first place by trading my time and effort to create something of value... either a product or a service.

It's actually quite simple. The interesting part is when people obtain money without creating or providing a valuable product or service... or at least the value is far less than the money they obtain. What happens then?

 

[bullfrog !]

Happy Camper or anyone, so it needs to change! Elections can’t come soon enough in my opinion!
ruff are we back to the argument of money making money is evil again? lol!!!
Maybe since we are doing politics in the thread and starting to go in circles it is time to list the issues and solutions and have a pole!

 

[Happy Camper]

Happy Camper or anyone, so it needs to change! Elections can’t come soon enough in my opinion!

I agree. I just wish I had someone I actually wanted to vote for in the final two. Dumb and dumber. Worse and worse. Very bad and extremely bad. At the moment this is how I consider my choices at the top of the ballot.

Sure each one has a few things I appreciated. Both did more harm than good.

2028 can't get here fast enough.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^ I think you have to look at the effect the elections have on all the branches of government and the organizations behind the candidates, after all it isn’t just the candidate but the effects they have on our lives and our country. I swore an oath to support the Constitution and will continue to do so. It is not perfect but has options to be amended and hopefully improved. In my opinion we have allowed money and greed to damage our system of government but it can be repaired.

 

[mpruet]

I don't see how the "flow" is relevant to anything. If you have something I want to buy and you want to sell it, it's a lot easier for me to give you dollars rather than find some other item you want in exchange.

True. But suppose that 100 people worked for a company that made shoes. Now suppose that a person buys a pair of shoes, then the company uses that $100 to pay one of the employees who in turn buys another pair of shoes. And then the company uses that $100 to pay one of the other employees, who also buys yet another pair of shoes. And so on…

Eventually the $100 would have been exchanged multiple times for 100 pairs of shoes.

It is true that the money is only a means of exchange. The worker is using the money to exchange his time (and by extension a piece of his life) for the money, and then the money is used to make a purchase. One tangible thing of value (a piece of his life ) for the eventual potential of another thing of value (money). And later on the realization of that potential (money) for a real piece of value (shoes). Repeated multiple times results in everyone having a new pair of shoes.

Fundamentally we could argue that really everyone is exchanging a thing of value (their time/piece of their life) for another thing of value (shoes) and the money is only a means of exchange. But without the means of exchange it would be very difficult to get those shoes. We would be reduced to a barter system which is highly inefficient and which is prone to misrepresentation of value. So by striving to keep a system in which transfer of value is easy seems to be critical for the overall wealth.

 

[rockloper]

A true believer that a "side" of the political spectrum is completely and correct on everything is exactly the voter that they hope to groom in whatever ways they can.

I have yet to see any political party, worldwide, that I can agree with on every point of their platform. Yet that is what is being fostered these days. You vote for the platform or you're not one of us.

Why do you think moderates get frustrated on either side of the aisle? Because they can't just vote what they think. Politics today is more of a football game than government. Complete with cheerleaders and fans that will follow that team no matter what.

In the last few weeks a couple of democratic members of the congressional progressive caucus left that group because they didn't think like everyone else regarding Israel and Gaza. That is one issue out of many that the cpc push with their agenda and platform. But that one thing they don't agree on makes them not a part of that group.

Same thing happens on the Republican side. Just with different issues. Same game. Change the names. Change the issue. Same results.

I'm not here to give you exact points to debate with me regarding the left. Or the right if that's your thing. If you can't see for yourself what I'm explaining, you might be part of the problem I'm explaining. Critical thinking and being honest outside of what you would prefer is what we as a country need. Practical thinking with practical action applied.

Do we want to feel better? Or do we want to be better. Because right now we're doing neither. We're just stuck watching two teams play a game.

Idealism is important in life. But so is realism. And in our current political climate, there's not a lot of real movement forward that works for everyone.

Not only did you NOT answer the question but you completely mis-characterized my statement!

 

[rruff]

But without the means of exchange it would be very difficult to get those shoes. So by striving to keep a system in which transfer of value is easy seems to be critical for the overall wealth.

That's why every country in the world uses money, and has for a very long time.

 

[mpruet]

That's why every country in the world uses money, and has for a very long time.

And now most of our ‘money’ is just electrons etched on a disc. ;-)

 

[camperdan]

Hardly. The initial issue was the Wall Street Panic which was mainly brought on by over speculation such as buying on margin. But the cause that over speculation was a danger because of significant increase in inventory. Profit margins couldn’t be kept. Initially there was just a plateau followed by a gradual decline. But then the margin calls started up which accelerated the decline as investors started panicking and trying to sell their holdings. But then the sell orders exceeded the capacity and people couldn’t even sell. That caused people to try to pull what cash they had from the banks causing runs on banks, and that caused banks to begin failing, which made it impossible to get credit, which meant that payrolls couldn’t be made. Don’t forget businesses rarely just have money on hand, even for payrolls. They usually have to take short term loans just to make daily operations.

Well that led to both layoffs and furloughs. And the farmers also couldn’t get loans to buy seed for the crops.

By this time since the banking system had largely failed, and people were hoarding what money they had, there was very little commerce. And that meant that the larger inventory couldn’t even be sold at cost. That was bad enough, but then in an attempt to protect American business, congress passed that Smoot-Hawley Tariff which drastically limited the importing of goods from overseas. And the foreign countries retaliated by passing high Tarrifs themselves on American goods, which resulted in even less purchasing of American good, reducing our GDP, and which resulted in a world wide depression.

When FDR became president the first thing he did was to declare a bank holiday to stop the runs/shutdowns of the banking system. Much of his first administration was to get money flowing again with public works, which did infuse some cash into the system, but it really wasn’t enough to get totally out of the depression. Then congress raised taxes, but taxes are really the government’s method of removing money from circulation, and that’s when we hit bottom. Finally there was massive spending with the coming of WWII which infused a lot of money into the system.

It was not that the businesses paid too little, they couldn’t even hire because the commercial system had already collapsed.

You don't have much of an idea what polite conversation is, do you? You come off always trying to be the smartest
in the room. REAL good way to make friends. Give it up.

 

[Happy Camper]

Not only did you NOT answer the question but you completely mis-characterized my statement!

Please characterize your statement if you feel I was in error regarding my post in relation to your post.

I was saying I didn't want to go back and forth on specific people and situations, which seemed likely if I just gave a flat answer. I'm all for debate and discussion. But since I don't know you or how you communicate yet, I thought it was prudent not to get caught in a back and forth regarding specific situations.

I do stand by what I posted, regardless of how it comes off in relation to your question.

 

[Happy Camper]

You don't have much of an idea what polite conversation is, do you? You come off always trying to be the smartest
in the room. REAL good way to make friends. Give it up.

Every discussion isn't about making friends. Every discussion isn't about being brief and to the point.

For all we know he might be the smartest person here. But really, I'm the smartest person lol. Not that it matters. Smart people make poor choices every day. If we didn't there would be no point in this and other forums. We'd already know everything because we're so smart and make great decisions only lol.

You don't have to agree with what anyone says. You don't have to read it. You don't have to entertain it. That's freedom at it's core.

 

[RonDean]

And all this time I thought I was the smartest one here! JK..

It may not always be an even split (15% or otherwise), but I agree with the sentiment. In today's politics, moderates are a dying breed and compromise is a dirty word. The threat of being "primaried" by your own party makes it worse for anyone who wants to work across the aisle. I suspect the only way out for whichever party is the more extreme is to lose often enough or by a large enough margin to force them to change their ways.

But I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that. I AM keeping my passport up to date in case of a total breakdown of our democracy. I am just getting too old to "man the barricades."

 

[mpruet]

And all this time I thought I was the smartest one here! JK..

It may not always be an even split (15% or otherwise), but I agree with the sentiment. In today's politics, moderates are a dying breed and compromise is a dirty word. The threat of being "primaried" by your own party makes it worse for anyone who wants to work across the aisle. I suspect the only way out for whichever party is the more extreme is to lose often enough or by a large enough margin to force them to change their ways.

But I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that. I AM keeping my passport up to date in case of a total breakdown of our democracy. I am just getting too old to "man the barricades."

I’m afraid that the focus these days is only on winning and not doing good for the country.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^exactly! The reason for that is we are not rewarding results and good governance by voting for people that do want to make a better country! We are continuing to vote for people that do not get results and blaming the system based on what party they are in. I believe many people are frustrated with the choices in primaries and general elections, I have been for several decades. I finally started looking at results and policies that parties put forward. It has been a pretty easy decision as only one party has put forth their platform on polices the last few years. I absolutely refuse to vote for someone without a plan, and when I do I evaluate how well that plan worked and how close it was followed. Results matter no matter which party they belong to.

 

[mpruet]

^^^^
I tend to blame the plethora of multi-media news. When we only had three broadcast channels and each channel had only 30 minutes to deliver the news, they tended to deliver ‘just the facts’. But now we have a lot of news channels and each, for the most part, focuses only on their target audience. This has tended to allow folks to first form an opinion and then select the ‘news’ channel which matched their preconceived opinion. That then causes a ‘festering of the mind’ as the news channel and their audience form a loop of anger.

 

[Gr8ful]

We don't have NEWS anymore, we have Left Party Opinion, Lies & Omissions. Walter Cronkite is probably rolling in his grave.

 

[Carla618]

^^^^
I tend to blame the plethora of multi-media news. When we only had three broadcast channels and each channel had only 30 minutes to deliver the news, they tended to deliver ‘just the facts’.

Wrong. They never delivered just the facts.

 

[RonDean]

We don't have NEWS anymore, we have Left Party Opinion, Lies & Omissions. Walter Cronkite is probably rolling in his grave.

And here I thought we had Right Party Opinion, Lies & Omissions.

I do know that Fox News agreed to pay Dominion Voting Systems nearly $800 million to avert a trial in the voting machine company's lawsuit that would have exposed how the network promoted lies about the 2020 presidential election. To my knowledge, none of the other opinion and news sources have had to admit quite that much.

I do agree that Walter Cronkite would not be happy.

 

[mpruet]

Wrong. They never delivered just the facts.

Whatever. I’m sure you are correct. Walter Cronkite never tried to be factual.