insulation advice?

[rinella]

I picked up a 2007 Ford E-250 cargo van about two weeks ago, and I have been pouring over the internet trying to figure out how I want it set up.

My first project will be insulation. I live in Oregon, where the temperatures are fairly moderate, but we get a lot of rain! I've come up with a plan for insulation, so please tell me if I'm on the right track or not.

Here is my layer system for the walls and ceiling:

-Van Sheet Metal
-50% coverage with Fat Mat Rattle Trap
-100% coverage with 93.75 mil thick Polyethylene Foam (underlayment for laminate flooring) attached with spray adhesive
-reflextix attached with spray adhesive
-polyiso rigid foam insulation (1 inch walls and 2 inch ceiling)
-luan plywood covered with either carpet or padded vinyl

For the floor:
-Van Sheet Metal
-50% coverage with Fat Mat Rattle Trap
-100% coverage with 93.75 mil thick Polyethylene Foam (underlayment for laminate flooring) attached with spray adhesive
-1" polyiso rigid foam board
-15/32 CDX plywood
-linoleum type sheet good

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[Ken in Anaheim]

Rinella; here's a copy/paste from one of Bob's earlier posts : I lived full-time in a box van in Anchorage, AK for 6 years quite comfortably, so it can be done. The bigger your space, the more comfortable you will be. However, I have a friend who lives full-time in his Ford Explorer in Denver, CO, so it can be done in a SUV. Here is what I recommend so that you can thrive instead of survive.

Buy a cargo van with as few windows as possible and bare metal walls. Get self-tapping sheet metal screws and run 1x2 inch rails at the top, bottom and middle of the walls, and the same with the roof. They will run from front to rear and you will screw into the vans ribs. At Home Depot buy 3/4 inch thick sheets of styrofoam insulation that are 4x8 feet wide and long.The 3/4 will bend to the curve of the walls. Put at least two layers on the walls and preferably more. Put at least 3 layers on the roof. The roof is most important. Cover the back doors with insulation. Build a wall with 2x2s between the back and driving area and cover it with plywood and styrofoam on the outside and reflectix on the inside by the living area. You will have to cut a door out of the plywood and use hinges to make it open and close. If that is more carpentry than you are up for, hang a heavy blanket on the drivers side and reflectix on the inside . The reflectic is a vapor barrier. On the floor I would just use a carpet pad and cheap carpeting. The floor will be cold, but there is no way to make it otherwise. Buy a tube of caulk and search out as many air leaks as you can find. That will keep heat into the van fairly well.

You want a true catalytic heater, they can be left running while you are asleep and nothing else can. In Alaska I used Olympian catalytic heaters. I turned them on in October and they ran 24/7 until May. I only turned them off to change the propane bottle. Buy an Olympian Wave 3 heater, a 20 lb propane bottle, a regulater, and a hose to connect the heater to the regulater. Follow the owners manual 100% and you will be totally safe. The main issues are the venting to let air in and the spaces around the heater. Follow those and you will be fine.

You will comfortable all winter with enough space to get a desk and really study. Bob

Hope it helps.....KinA

 

[GotSmart]

Stay away from spray adhesive! Toxic stuff.

 

[akrvbob]

Hi rinella, welcome to the group! I've never heard of Fat Mat Rattle Trap or Polyethylene Foam underlayment before so I can't comment on them.

Reflectix MUST have an air gap on the side facing the heat or it does almost no good as insulation and is money thrown away. So either have a 3/4 inch air gap or don't use it.

The polyiso is an excellent choice and probably all you need. Everything else sounds great!
Bob

 

[rinella]

Awesome! Thank you all for the advice!

FatMat Rattle Trap is basically a less expensive dynamat alternative. The purpose is to quiet down the vibrations and road noise in the van. The Polyethylene foam underlayment also helps to reduce noise, but I figured it would aid in insinuation, plus it's super cheap at about $20 for 100sqft.

If I shouldn't use spray adhesive because of toxicity, what could I use to attach the polyethylene? Doesn't foam insulation also out gas?

I think I will forget the reflectix and just double up on layers of polyiso.

Thanks guys!

 

[GotSmart]

Google what you plan to use, and I would recommend using a adhesive such as Pure Silicone or Elmers Glue.

Look up non toxic adhesives and see what is available in your local stores.

 

[Duck]

I would really strongly recommend staying away from silicones of any type for this activity. They are really problematic when used as adhesives, because once removed, nothing else(including paint) will stick well. Furthermore, they contaminate the area when you try to sand them off to be able to paint or use a proper adhesive later. You end up carefully wet sanding and washing with acetone several times.

A good strong spray adhesive is OK, though they don't do all that well with contraction and expansion over time, and can be bought in larger quantities with a proper spray nozzle, making it quite affordable.
Good ventilation, good personal protection(suit, gloves, eye protection and respirator are musts).

 

[Zil]

My present project is the first to have the floor insulated. I will use the thin closed insulation that is used under siding. then 3/4 good grade plywood with carriage bolts through the metal floor. My bed and other built ins will then fasten to the ply. the remaining open floor will be finished with vinyl or laminate flooring with cloth rugs.

 

[GotSmart]

My present project is the first to have the floor insulated. I will use the thin closed insulation that is used under siding. then 3/4 good grade plywood with carriage bolts through the metal floor. My bed and other built ins will then fasten to the ply. the remaining open floor will be finished with vinyl or laminate flooring with cloth rugs.

I bought a self tapping stainless screw that went through the wood and metal. That is what the conversion company did back in 1991 and it lasted through the Missouri winters. No where as much work as carriage bolts.

 

[rinella]

i was thinking about just cutting the plywood floor tight in the curves and floating it. Would it be better to use self tapping screws? If so, should i use any sealant/rust preventative around the screws?

 

[GotSmart]

It is best to have things fastened. No sealant is needed

 

[Zil]

I am using two plywood 6ft x 4ft. Using 5/16 carriage bolts I can bolt tight with 4 in each sheet. There is lots of stuff under floor to accidentally hit using self tappers from the top, and would need more holes.
Yes, don't leave things to fly around. Avoid crashes but plan for them. Don't let a fender bender hit you with a plank.

 

[GotSmart]

To each their own way. I will not tell you that the way you chose to make modifications to your vehicle is wrong. There are so many different ways to do it. Personal choices. :idea:

I had several smaller pieces to fill in so tappers worked for me. I made sure where I was putting them first!

A flying sheet of wood covered with everything you own shooting at you in an accident is not a happy thought!

 

[66788]

Reflectix MUST have an air gap on the side facing the heat or it does almost no good as insulation and is money thrown away. So either have a 3/4 inch air gap or don't use it.

Bob

Bob,

Could you expand on that a bit? I have a Dodge window van and am planning to use Reflectix on all the windows. I had planned to just press it against the glass, but you are saying I need a 3/4 inch air gap? How would I install it on my side windows in the van?

thanks

 

[rinella]

I ran across this article about reflextix: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...letter&utm_campaign=fine-homebuilding-eletter

 

[akrvbob]

@rinella, that is a very good article I agree with 100%.

@66788, most of the time we just use compression fit to push the refectix into the window and when you do, don't push it in all the way. there will be some air gap in there.

Now this is just my opinion, I've not seen it anywhere else: what reflectix does very well is reflect heat. But the heat has to have somewhere else to go and an air-gap gives it that. Glass has a very low R value and does little to stop the transfer of heat.

I believe that when reflectix is pressed up against a window, that the heat easily flows through the glass, hits the reflectix and then easily flows back out. Now, I've never read that anywhere and have no proof. It is just a common sense conclusion I've reached. But, I've also seen it work, if you put reflectix against a window in a van the van will be cooler!!

ideally, you will leave a 1/2 inch air gap between the window and the reflectix, and then you will have a layer of polyiso on the inside of the reflectix. That is perfect!!! But many people will just push the reflectix up against the glass and then put polyiso next to it. I believe that works really well also, but maybe not as well.
Bob