illusion retirement budget

[yesican]

  Van dwellers have the correct idea - to love BENEATH our means and save as much as possible.

&nbsp;<br />&nbsp; Umm...Pretty sure you meant live, but hey...you mighta been think bout the wife!&nbsp;&nbsp;<img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" /><br />&nbsp; Anyways, Terry, you need to listen to Bob and Seraphim...I know that SS will deny people their disability the first time it's applied for and often the 2nd.&nbsp; A good disability lawyer is worth their weight in gold, because you will get back pay from the date you first applied.&nbsp; My brother-in-law got many thousands$ in back pay because it took him over 3 years to get it, but I heard now they only go back so many months...I think&nbsp;its 1-3 years back pay...it still adds up.&nbsp; It often takes 3 times before you get your SSD.<br />&nbsp; I know its hard to have a positive attitude when you've been the recipient of crapt much of your life, but many&nbsp;of us on this sight have had the rug pulled out from underneath us many many times.&nbsp; A positive attitude can get you on the right tract if you expose yourself to the right people who hold positive values themselves.&nbsp; That's what this sight can do for you if you let it.&nbsp; Glean what you can from the positive attitudes and informative minds...They're great people here.<br />Rae<br /><br />

 

[josephusminimus]

I assume the LOL was a reference to the liberal arts degree and not to the viability of what I outlined?<br /><br />We came from a poor family and have never inherited any money.&nbsp; Because both of us studied and made good grades in high school and college, we were able to graduate with decent engineering degrees and only $80,000 in student loan debt.&nbsp; (me electrical, wife software).&nbsp; It took us awhile to pay the debt down, but we paid it off by age 28.&nbsp; For the past 14 years we have managed to save over 50% of our gross income and will have $1,300,000 to $1,500,000 by age 45, at which point we are going to scale back to part time work and living in a box van or tent.<br /><br /><em><strong>There are so many opportunities but everyone just wants to complain and not work.</strong></em>&nbsp; The decisions you make when you are young are the consequences you must live with when you are older.

<br /><br />When people make choices that happen, in retrospect, to have worked out there's a temptation to indulge in an overweening pride afterward and possibly a smug satisfaction attributing it to personal qualities lacking in those around us.&nbsp; An assumption that, had others been as wise, hard-working and virtuous as ourselves, things would have worked equally well for them.<br /><br />If they didn't work equally well, prima faci evidence they weren't as wise, hard working, virtuous as we are.<br /><br />

 

[josephusminimus]

I have a shack on 3/8 acre lot(s) in town (Pensacola) but not city limits. I was an iron worker most of my working life till injuries stopped that. Then, my son became very sick&nbsp; with a form of muscular dystrophy that came from my wife's family. He died from poor care and mistakes by the doctors and staff at Sacred Heart hospital.&nbsp; She has the disorder too and is in the last stages of it for the last three years needing me to be 24/7 caretaker. Since 1986, I have been unable to work due to injuries and family needing me to be available to care for them to one degree or another. My Social Security balance sheet says I'll get just over $300 a month if I wait till I'm 65. I have been found disabled by the SS Depts doctors but my doctor kept poor records and gave/gives poor treatment to people on medicaid so a review board changed that decision based on my doctors lack of treatment records and such. If the final decision goes against me, I'll have to sell the house and live on that and whatever pennies I can earn doing flea market type business till I'm 62. Then, I'll file for my SS and apply for a subsidized housing around Portland or Seattle. The only other retirement option I see is to walk into a bank with a hold-up note and wait till the police arrive and let them provide me with "three hots and a cot" along with primitive medical&nbsp; care. This is what happens to a lot of people and many are far worse off than me. A lot of people say I deserve whatever I got coming but i would have had a much better chance of making things work out with either a decent chance at an education or with public servants actually serving the public (me) rather than serving their own self interests. I also am fortunate that my only surviving son is doing OK for himself and has no children for me to worry about after my passing from this life.<br />&nbsp;I once upon a time was able to go where I wanted and do as I pleased as long as I did it in a reasonable manner. I worked hard at jobs that most people wouldn't want to do so I made good money. I just didn't last long enough to start thinking about retirement. I have no formal education and expected the "powers that be" to be honest with me and they weren't. Starting with the doctors through the insurance companies all the way up to and including lawyers and judges. <br />&nbsp;This is just a small look into the life expectations of someone that didn't believe that the world was looking out for those with power and money only. Sorry if its depressing.

<br /><br />Terry:&nbsp; Sorry for your difficulties.&nbsp;&nbsp; Here's wishing you a better lot.&nbsp; You've described the other side of the IGBT equation, where circumstances intervened to drive a wedge between the circumstances of your life and the euphoric successes IGBT&nbsp;described.<br /><br />Life has a way of providing a bell-shaped curve with the people riding the wave at the top full of certainties it was their own doing, the ones at the bottom recognizing it ain't entirely so.&nbsp;

 

[IGBT]

<br /><br />When people make choices that happen, in retrospect, to have worked out there's a temptation to indulge in an overweening pride afterward and possibly a smug satisfaction attributing it to personal qualities lacking in those around us.&nbsp; An assumption that, had others been as wise, hard-working and virtuous as ourselves, things would have worked equally well for them.<br /><br />If they didn't work equally well, prima faci evidence they weren't as wise, hard working, virtuous as we are.<br /><br />

<br /><br />I never said it was easy or guaranteed.&nbsp; I just said it was not impossible and that you don't have to win the lottery to be able to retire.<br /><br />You are really fairly screwed if you don't take advantage of the free education system we have here in the USA.&nbsp; If you apply yourself and are not one of the "cool kids" who skips class and never turns in homework, you can easily get a partial or even full scholorship to a state college.&nbsp; You don't have to come from money.&nbsp;<br /><br />All that said, if something hits you out of the blue, like wife and child getting extremely sick, I can sympathize and hope that the support programs (like social security disability) can provide some measure of help.&nbsp; Some things you just can't plan.<br /><br />@Terry:&nbsp; Your wife qualifies for 50% of your social security benefits, which in this case I guess would only be $150.&nbsp; I am not sure how your benefit could only be $300, but I guess it is the long period of unemployment.&nbsp; At the very least though, $450 is a little better than $300.

 

[josephusminimus]

<br /><br />When people make choices that happen, in retrospect, to have worked out there's a temptation to indulge in an overweening pride afterward and possibly a smug satisfaction attributing it to personal qualities lacking in those around us.&nbsp; An assumption that, had others been as wise, hard-working and virtuous as ourselves, things would have worked equally well for them.<br /><br />If they didn't work equally well, prima faci evidence they weren't as wise, hard working, virtuous as we are.<br /><br />

<br /><br />I never said it was easy or guaranteed.&nbsp; I just said it was not impossible and that you don't have to win the lottery to be able to retire.<br /><br />You are really fairly screwed if you don't take advantage of the free education system we have here in the USA.&nbsp; If you apply yourself and are not one of the "cool kids" who skips class and never turns in homework, you can easily get a partial or even full scholorship to a state college.&nbsp; You don't have to come from money.&nbsp;<br /><br />All that said, if something hits you out of the blue, like wife and child getting extremely sick, I can sympathize and hope that the support programs (like social security disability) can provide some measure of help.&nbsp; Some things you just can't plan.<br /><br />@Terry:&nbsp; Your wife qualifies for 50% of your social security benefits, which in this case I guess would only be $150.&nbsp; I am not sure how your benefit could only be $300, but I guess it is the long period of unemployment.&nbsp; At the very least though, $450 is a little better than $300.

<br /><br />One of the great things about being a human, seems to me, is the fact we're all choosing different paths because we all come from different parts of the gene pool, enter the life experience with different surroundings, home environments, attitudes acquired too early to be a matter of choices.<br /><br />Yep, kids would be wiser to take the path you took.&nbsp; But kids come by their motivations from too many different directions to count.&nbsp; They often make lousy choices maybe they'd have made differently if they'd been as wise as the kids on the student council, the ones who spent their nights studying instead of doing other things.<br /><br />But I'd offer the speculation that when you were a kid making the choices you made, those choices involved all manner of issues outside your personal control and didn't necessarily include a level of wisdom beyond your years.<br /><br />Same is so with all of us.&nbsp; I can attest to it as a matter of personal experience.&nbsp; Grew up and lived on the wild side.&nbsp; Didn't get my first university degree until after I was 45 times around the sun.<br /><br />Yep, a lot of people who post here aren't well off financially, compared to you.&nbsp; They'll have a more difficult row to hoe when they're older than you'll have if you live long enough to enjoy it.&nbsp; They do choose to have kids, as you didn't.&nbsp; <br /><br />But I was actually responding to the "<em>all people want to do is whine and complain instead of working hard</em>" [implied, "<em>as I've done</em>"].&nbsp; <br /><br />You and I don't have any way of knowing how hard other people have worked, how hard they've studied, what concerns and circumstances contributed to whatever situations they're in now, financially or otherwise.<br /><br />Probably a lot of them consider themselves richer than you and I might be in their eyes, because they're blessed with children and paid for it with poverty.&nbsp; Likely as not they figure they worked hard, in any case.

 

[kappydell]

i never expected social security to even be around, so i planned accordingly. living below one's means habitually makes it easier to adjust. when my spouse got sick and could not work anymore his SS was a joke. we downsized even more preparing for my retirement. No children (never could afford them) not luck, just planning. it is never easy, but if you never expect SS to save you, you are a lot better off. the only ones making money from SS are it's bureaucrats. sad but true. no regrets, no rancor...it is what it is.

 

[josephusminimus]

i never expected social security to even be around, so i planned accordingly. living below one's means habitually makes it easier to adjust. when my spouse got sick and could not work anymore his SS was a joke. we downsized even more preparing for my retirement. No children (never could afford them) not luck, just planning. it is never easy, but if you never expect SS to save you, you are a lot better off. the only ones making money from SS are it's bureaucrats. sad but true. no regrets, no rancor...it is what it is.

<br /><br />I manage to live on mine and consider it a blessing, as opposed to a joke, though during my working years I never expected to draw it and depend on it.&nbsp; It is what it is, and I'm grateful today that I paid into if for half a century.

 

[IGBT]

<br /><br />Same is so with all of us.&nbsp; I can attest to it as a matter of personal experience.&nbsp; Grew up and lived on the wild side.&nbsp; Didn't get my first university degree until after I was 45 times around the sun.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Better late than never!<br /><br />I am not going to argue the point anymore, as you can't teach an old dog new tricks.&nbsp; Every person who ends up old without saving tends to blame the system, the man, the rich.&nbsp; Every person who ends up well off or at least financially stable tends to preach about how it was hard work, discipline, etc.<br /><br />It is probably a little from column A and a little from column B.<br /><br />I will end with this thought though.&nbsp; I was at the&nbsp;gas station&nbsp;the other day and noticed a pack of cigarettes was $7.50.&nbsp; My jaw dropped...the last time I remember noticing the cost (maybe 20 years ago?) they were under $2 a pack.<br /><br />At two packs a day each, a married couple could save $30 a day by not smoking.&nbsp; That is $900 a month.&nbsp; $10,800 a year.&nbsp; This is more money than my wife and I put in our Roth IRA each year!<br /><br />$10,000 saved&nbsp;for 30 years at 5% is $750,000

 

[josephusminimus]

<br /><br />Same is so with all of us.&nbsp; I can attest to it as a matter of personal experience.&nbsp; Grew up and lived on the wild side.&nbsp; Didn't get my first university degree until after I was 45 times around the sun.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Better late than never!<br /><br />I am not going to argue the point anymore, as you can't teach an old dog new tricks.&nbsp; Every person who ends up old without saving tends to blame the system, the man, the rich.&nbsp; Every person who ends up well off or at least financially stable tends to preach about how it was hard work, discipline, etc.<br /><br />It is probably a little from column A and a little from column B.<br /><br />I will end with this thought though.&nbsp; I was at the&nbsp;gas station&nbsp;the other day and noticed a pack of cigarettes was $7.50.&nbsp; My jaw dropped...the last time I remember noticing the cost (maybe 20 years ago?) they were under $2 a pack.<br /><br />At two packs a day each, a married couple could save $30 a day by not smoking.&nbsp; That is $900 a month.&nbsp; $10,800 a year.&nbsp; This is more money than my wife and I put in our Roth IRA each year!<br /><br />$10,000 saved&nbsp;for 30 years at 5% is $750,000

<br /><br />Yep.&nbsp; I'm old without savings.&nbsp; But I don't blame any system, though I don't mind being part of your flawed stereotype.&nbsp; And I don't mind a young dog trying to teach me a few tricks.&nbsp; Might well learn something.&nbsp; When I was a young dog I was probably as certain as you that I already knew everything worth knowing and all old dogs were good for was teaching them the tricks I learned at a tender age.<br /><br />You and I don't have anything to argue about.&nbsp; We've no investment in one another.&nbsp; If it gives you satisfaction to think all those folks less financially well-to-do than you are blaming the system for it, whereas you've conquered the process through hard work and wise choices, I certainly wouldn't argue the case.&nbsp; I congratulate you.<br /><br />I congratulate those who made other choices, too, for that matter.&nbsp; I'd guess I'm still able to learn something from them, as well.

 

[IGBT]

<br /><br />Yep.&nbsp; I'm old without savings.&nbsp; But I don't blame any system, though I don't mind being part of your flawed stereotype.&nbsp; And I don't mind a young dog trying to teach me a few tricks.&nbsp; Might well learn something.&nbsp; When I was a young dog I was probably as certain as you that I already knew everything worth knowing and all old dogs were good for was teaching them the tricks I learned at a tender age.<br /><br />You and I don't have anything to argue about.&nbsp; We've no investment in one another.&nbsp; If it gives you satisfaction to think all those folks less financially well-to-do than you are blaming the system for it, whereas you've conquered the process through hard work and wise choices, I certainly wouldn't argue the case.&nbsp; I congratulate you.<br /><br />I congratulate those who made other choices, too, for that matter.&nbsp; I'd guess I'm still able to learn something from them, as well.

<br /><br />Fair enough.&nbsp; I don't get great satisfaction thinking about the suffering of others.&nbsp; As long as everyone adopts a live and let live attitude and keeps their hands out of my pocket, I am willing to withhold judgement on life decisions.&nbsp; The exception being veterans.&nbsp; These people risked their life so I may have the things I enjoy, and I support them through donations and at the voting polls.&nbsp; If you served your 20 or were wounded or disabled in service, you deserve a comfortable retirement and I am willing to be taxed for that.

 

[josephusminimus]

Fair enough.&nbsp; I don't get great satisfaction thinking about the suffering of others.&nbsp; As long as everyone adopts a live and let live attitude and keeps their hands out of my pocket, I am willing to withhold judgement on life decisions.&nbsp; The exception being veterans.&nbsp; These people risked their life so I may have the things I enjoy, and I support them through donations and at the voting polls.&nbsp; If you served your 20 or were wounded or disabled in service, you deserve a comfortable retirement and I am willing to be taxed for that.

<br /><br />Likely some vets out there appreciate that type of support rhetoric.&nbsp; I doubt many of them will get a chance to get a hand in your pocket, but if they do, I congratulate them.

 

[IGBT]

Fair enough.&nbsp; I don't get great satisfaction thinking about the suffering of others.&nbsp; As long as everyone adopts a live and let live attitude and keeps their hands out of my pocket, I am willing to withhold judgement on life decisions.&nbsp; The exception being veterans.&nbsp; These people risked their life so I may have the things I enjoy, and I support them through donations and at the voting polls.&nbsp; If you served your 20 or were wounded or disabled in service, you deserve a comfortable retirement and I am willing to be taxed for that.

<br /><br />Likely some vets out there appreciate that type of support rhetoric.&nbsp; I doubt many of them will get a chance to get a hand in your pocket, but if they do, I congratulate them.

<br /><br />I don't wait for them to stick out the hand, I donate before they ask.&nbsp; It helps that my company matches our donations.

 

[josephusminimus]

Fair enough.&nbsp; I don't get great satisfaction thinking about the suffering of others.&nbsp; As long as everyone adopts a live and let live attitude and keeps their hands out of my pocket, I am willing to withhold judgement on life decisions.&nbsp; The exception being veterans.&nbsp; These people risked their life so I may have the things I enjoy, and I support them through donations and at the voting polls.&nbsp; If you served your 20 or were wounded or disabled in service, you deserve a comfortable retirement and I am willing to be taxed for that.

<br /><br />Likely some vets out there appreciate that type of support rhetoric.&nbsp; I doubt many of them will get a chance to get a hand in your pocket, but if they do, I congratulate them.

<br /><br />I don't wait for them to stick out the hand, I donate before they ask.&nbsp; It helps that my company matches our donations.

<br /><br />I think I prefer my SS.&nbsp; But likely you'll get takers among the ones who made a career of it.&nbsp; I do admire the folks who didn't serve, don't feel the need to talk the talk too much, but spend a few weekends a year visiting long-term care Vet Hospitals, though.&nbsp; Not many of them, but time's what we all have the same amount of, so the time they give down there where the rubber met the road wrong is an actual personal sacrifice for each of them.&nbsp; It puts meat on their words if they were doing any talking.

 

[oldsoul]

Am beginning to think that 80% of the public are really completely ignorant and have an illusion about having a retirement dollars to live on. 1) if you are 30 years old, and you take out a 30 year mortgage on a house. You will just barely pay off the house. You still have to pay for a replacement roof every twenty years, and replacement furnace every fifteen years. plus all those town tax increases. Plus the need to have disability access as you get older and need that. 2) You also need to save for a retirement. Work no longer pays pensions, no longer pays retirements. You save via a 401K or have nothing. if you get laid off (on the dole) you dip into that and have to reset the savings. $12,000 is the limit for that fund yearly (or something close to that). That might be just enough, assuming you do not loose it when the funds market takes a nose dive. Also assume that you or your family do not get sick, and loose your income. thats a suckers bet. Fiscally the system is rigged for the rich rich (over $1million in assets) and not for us common folks. Thus why Cheap RV living seems so smart.

<br /><br />Of course its rigged.Its a small club, and you &nbsp;and me aint in it.

 

[MasterOfSparks]

Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans. Statistically I'm sure there is much in what IGBT says. But if a person is not in the demographic and circumstances to take advantage of it the chances of success drop substantially. Its better in this life to be lucky than good. And its easy to confuse the two. Those who have been lucky always think they're good. In fact those who have been lucky never have&nbsp;much reason to examine the why of things very deeply.

 

[Guest]

Hi all,<br id="tinymce" class="mceContentBody " />I am old...and extremely grateful for being retired, having SS as a resource after having paid into it for all those years I worked...I was able to support my forebears by paying into it and now can reap a little of the paying it forward. Anytime there is a social program that helps folks, there are always those who want to destroy it, whether by dipping in from the top or not wanting to help out by paying their share....<br /><br />If we could actually say where we want our taxes to go, I would love to have mine not go to war or any manner of imperialism or the pockets of some politico but instead to social programs.....I would gladly pay more in taxes if I thought it was to feed, house or give medical care to a human being...anywhere. But that is just me...and actually many of the folks I choose to call friends.<br /><br />I am a federal retiree who had to take a very early health related retirement and for anyone who doesn't know....the way a federal retirement is figured is by dividing it into three parts...one is Socialist Security, one is a federal annuity and the third is the money you save. If anything happens to the SS program there will be a huge number of very angry federal employees...<br /><br />I only started to save when I went from what is called "migrant labor" amongst those who do it...a seasonal employee that had no benefits, just wages while working the 4 to 6 months of the season each year, to a permanent seasonal employee that still had a 4-6 month job but had regular benefits. Health plan, vacation and sick days, a thrift plan and time towards retirement. (This was due to having an excellent human being as a boss who went to bat for two of us who were migrant labor) In the last five years of my employment I saved in a high risk thrift plan where I put 10% of my income and the feds matched 5%....A nice blessing. As&nbsp; result I have a IRA that I gives me a little each month...the interest. I have a annuity that the feds pay (for my 14 years early retirement)&nbsp; that just covers my healthcare premiums for a medicare backup policy....and a decent amount of SS due to the amount I paid in.<br /><br />I live in a town populated by retired blue collar workers and physically damaged folks on some form of disability. Many live in ancient old beater Rvs that they pay $125 or so per month at a park, or rent a single room for $300 a month and then line up at the food bank on Tuesdays....which, since it was held at a church...the federal surplus food program was just disallowed......those folks have no food bank today.<br /><br />Is it because they didn't work hard and be smart about their savings? I would offer anyone to come here and we will walk the rounds and ask them. Many of the older ones mined uranium, have asbestosis or silicosis from some exceedingly hard work....many are damaged due to just drawing a bad hand in the gene department. There are any one of literally billions of things that can change one's good fortune.<br /><br />Something I try to remember is that I am where I am largely because of the good fortune...yep...good fortune and that alone, of being born in this particular country....we sure as hell are not better than anyone else in the world...we have a lot better life than many but an awful lot of it is on the backs of others.<br /><br />Bri

 

[josephusminimus]

<br />Luck.<br /><br />I am sure some people look at me and think, "She was just lucky."&nbsp; To them I say, "Here, put on these shoes and have a Nice Walk."<br /><br />Luck is so ambiguous.&nbsp; I have learned not to rely on it, but to be joyful when it shows up on my doorstep.&nbsp; Otherwise, I take a deep breath and keep on walking.&nbsp; There is no other choice; giving up is not an option.<br /><br />Ann<br /><br />

<br /><br />I doubt anyone else looks at me and thinks, "He was just lucky."&nbsp; But I look in the mirror and know I'm the luckiest man on the planet.&nbsp; As nearly as I'm aware I'm the only one who got to be me.&nbsp; But in addition to that, I got to have all those experiences everyone would consider lousy judgements.&nbsp; I wouldn't trade a one of them.<br /><br />If I get lucky enough to have my SS pension check taken away I'll be lucky enough to go through whatever experiences follow that, probably with a lot of lousy judgements by me thrown in so's I can keep on being me.&nbsp; Luck don't get much better than that.<br /><br />

 

[Seraphim]

Bri

We hear you.

There are a lot of people who start out in life with very little to no opportunity, and struggle throughout their lives for whatever they can earn.

There are also those who had opportunity, never took it, then moan and complain constantly. My brother is a case in point: an intelligent person whom I want to kick in the rear on a great many occasions lol. We grew up middle lower class. He went into the Navy for four years, sent money home to be saved, and rushed off ship in a hurry because he didn't want to be held over for Viet Nam, which was just warming up. He had the GI bill and could easily have gotten into college, used his savings and worked PT to feed and house himself. Instead, he grabbed his savings, bought a new Harley, came home to drinking and partying with his old buddies and took a job with them as an about worker. He raised a family and was forced into retirement at age 70. He's had a decent life.

Yet, he whines and complains that he didn't 'get' to go to college because he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. At his last public whine session I reminded him he had the opportunity and the means to go to college, he merely CHOSE not to. Every complaint he makes works back to a decision HE made, not to him being underprivileged, incapable, or locked into a life with no opportunity or options.

These, Brian, are the people who aggravate me personally, not the people who are truly in a disadvantaged position. My brother worked hard - he's no slouch - but he never looked own the road, and now he regrets that. Regrets I understand. Blaming others for the consequences of our own decisions is a trait I detest. My brother could have made different decisions. He did not make bad ones. He's a good man who provided for his family. Yet, he sees others who have things he does not, and he whines about 'poor old me who did not have those opportumities'. That's a line of BS.

He had opportunities and chose not to use them. He, personally, has no one to blame but himself if he wishes things had turned out differently.

As I said, just a case in point.

 

[Guest]

Seraphim....I totally concur...thanks for the post and example. I do hear you and have much the same views. I feel so blessed that I discovered thirty years ago that I had addiction and alcoholism issues and thought the world was my problem...painful to find out that my problem was ME...LOL <br /><br />Honestly, amigo,&nbsp; everything good that I have and am today is a direct result of sobriety and what I choose to call the Creator. I have such an amazing life and try to live my gratitude. What a gift to be able to face life on life's terms and make good decisions most of the time...<br /><br />Have a good night amigo....<br /><br />Bri

 

[offroad]

<br />Bri - excellent response. Life can be a coin flip at every moment.&nbsp;<br /><br />