I know nothing about electrical

[sunnyslife]

Is there any "pros" on here that can truly help me figure out my needs and how to hook up everything to meet my electrical needs - I am planning on both house electric and solar - I want to wire the solar though I won't be adding it right away - hoping that 400 watt will be enough.

My must haves: -5 of these: Kohree 12V Led RV Ceiling Dome Light RV Interior Lighting for Trailer Camper with Switch
                          -mini fridge/freezer - can't afford a propane one and with he strict diet I am on, yes it is important
                          -toaster over/mini crock pot/and coffee pot
                          -sewing machine - I am a quilter and use it about 2-4 hours a day
                          -laptop/charger
                          -phone charger
                          -ceiling vent with fan

I believe, at least for the time being, that is all I will need electric/solar for.

I would truly appreciate it if anyone can tell me the supplies I need and how to lay it all out. I really don't know anyone personally and can't afford to hire a professional with the costs of my build and everything else.

Barbara

 

[XERTYX]

As far as a mini fridge/freezer a few members have regular household ones and have success using them. A 12v fridge would be more efficient.

As far as a toaster oven, crock pot, and coffee pot go those can be done with solar. Depending on amount of time used and the wattage of panels you have but they may not be sustainable indefinitely.

I have no idea of the number of amps drawn by a sewing machine. Maybe the bottom of the foot pedal has a label listing the watts and or amps? If you could post that it would be helpful.

I have not used one but I've heard the hotlogic mini is a good substitute for a small crock pot.

A propane oven is more sustainable than a toaster oven.

A butane stove or propane stove (many propane ovens also have 2 or 3 burners for traditional cooking) with a percolator coffee pot or French press would be more sustainable in most cases than an electric coffee pot.

It is often easier to relearn habits than to design an electrical system that meets the luxuries that we have came to expect as basic needs. 1 person will never be able to generate electricity on a small scale cheaper than a corporation can on a large scale.

I have not ran an oven on battery power but I know it is possible. Also other things can be reconsidered. Such as thermos cooking in lieu of using a crock pot. Or using a rice cooker. Many people use rice cookers on solar instead of a propane/butane stove.

 

[highdesertranger]

heating with electricity(coffee pot, crock pot, toaster oven) is very inefficient and expensive. you don't notice it in ahouse because electricity is so cheap but once you are the power company you will see.

yes it can be done but it's much cheaper to use propane. plus what do you plan to do when you have a long period of stormy weather. which can happen pretty much anywhere under the right conditions. last winter in Arizona we had extended periods of cloud cover.

highdesertranger

 

[XERTYX]

Let me illustrate what I intend to do with my build.

I want to build out either a pop up camper or old camper trailer. I'd like to put roughly 400 watts of solar on the roof, 4 deep cycle marine batteries from walmart. 1 alpicool c20 fridge/ freezer as a fridge, one c20 as a freezer (redundancy if one c20 fails I still have another source of refrigeration), a 1000w pure sine wave inverter, a used RV 3 burner range/oven, a 700 watt microwave for occasional usage, a 350 watt rice cooker for pasta and other things, 12v LED light bulbs for lighting, multiple USB ports for phones/tablets/flashlights, a butane stove (redundancy), a 900 watt coffee pot for occasional usage, a 32" LED flat screen TV for entertainment, and other small loads. I'd like to also have the extra wattage for 1 or 2 fans. Maybe not fantastic fans. Maybe just daytime box fans.

 

[Natgreen]

What toaster oven do you plan on Getting? Sounds like my current setup. 500w panels 400ah batteries.

 

[XERTYX]

Most toaster ovens are at least 1000 watts. That's a huge drain. Even for a short while. So much so that in most applications it's an impossibility. Puekert effect is a large enemy in that case. Not only replacing the amps. But also having enough cells to compensate for the effect. If this were a homestead with thousands of watts of solar and dozens of batteries that's a different story. For a mobile application it can be an unattainable goal.

 

[maki2]

I think you might want to get a small generator. On cloudy days all those electrical kitchen appliances will be useless baggage that takes up room.

Running an Alpicool or any other portable DC fridge/freezer at constant freezing temperatures does use up a lot more amps than running it in refrigerator mode.

 

[highdesertranger]

it's ALWAYS easier and cheaper to conserve energy then it is to make energy.

most vehicles do not have enough roof space for enough solar to make heating with electricity possible. now if you want to use a generator that's a different story.

highdesertranger

 

[sunnyslife]

heating with electricity(coffee pot,  crock pot,  toaster oven) is very inefficient and expensive.  you don't notice it in ahouse because electricity is so cheap but once you are the power company you will see.

yes it can be done but it's much cheaper to use propane.  plus what do you plan to do when you have a long period of stormy weather.   which can happen pretty much anywhere under the right conditions.  last winter in Arizona we had extended periods of cloud cover.

highdesertranger

I do have a propane camp stove and was looking at one of the ovens you just set on top - the toaster oven and crock pot would not be used on a regular basis - I prefer to cook on my stove. I also plan to have a propane heater.

 

[sunnyslife]

What toaster oven do you plan on Getting? Sounds like my current setup. 500w panels 400ah batteries.

I was looking at the combo - toaster oven, griddle, and coffee pot - can't remember the brand at the moment

 

[sunnyslife]

I think you might want to get a small generator. On cloudy days all those electrical kitchen appliances will be useless baggage that takes up room.

Running an Alpicool or any other portable DC fridge/freezer at constant freezing temperatures does use up a lot more amps than running it in refrigerator mode.

my mini fridge is both a fridge and freezer - 2 separate doors

 

[sunnyslife]

it's ALWAYS easier and cheaper to conserve energy then it is to make energy.

most vehicles do not have enough roof space for enough solar to make heating with electricity possible.  now if you want to use a generator that's a different story.

highdesertranger

will be using propane to heat

 

[highdesertranger]

electric coffee maker, crock pot, and toaster oven are also heating devices. highdesertranger

 

[sunnyslife]

okay - mini fridge is: 115V - 60Hz 0.8A with start up amps being 4.0A
- sewing machine: 120V - 60Hz - 0.65A

 

[sunnyslife]

Now that I have gotten such great advice - I have decided to go with my camp stove and a Coleman camp oven that sits on top - will also do away with the crock pot and drip coffee pot and go with a percolator - will also be buying a propane heater for the colder times.
As stated before, because of my diet - which consists of nothing but fresh fruits, veggies, cheese, eggs, and meats - I cannot do away with my fridge.
And, nothing is going to make me give up my sewing - lol.

So here is the kicker - are any of you able to help me with a diagram of the size/type and how to run the wires to include 2 double outlet boxes, the 5 overhead LED rv lights, the ceiling vent fan, and a double outside outlet - God I hope so. I have no idea what boxes I need though I do know I need some sort of breaker box.
I also know I need some batteries and a couple of other "do-dads" for the solar (will have four 100W panels on the roof) but I also have no idea what I have to run for the solar and how...

I will be starting the build next weekend and would love to know so I can run everything before I finish the interior walls.

I truly appreciate everyone here and you advice/help. I am looking to be homeless in just about 9 weeks so I just need to get it done.

Barbara

 

[XERTYX]

Well I have some figures for you. The amount of watts drawn by your fridge NOT factoring in the startup surge only the running amps of 0.8 (the fridge will run the compressor several times per day depending on many factors and that is the 4.0 amps figure)

115 X 0.8 =92. 92 watts when it is idle not counting for starting up the compressor.

92 X 24 = 2208. 2208 watts per day consumed (again this is just the idle number)

Some people figure on 5 hours of full output from their panels a day. I err on the side of caution myself and figure 4 hours of full sun. Also not every day will be sunny.

4 X 400 = 1600 alternatively 5 X 400 = 2000

Either of those figures still brings you in over budget daily in full sun for just the fridge alone and those figures dont account for the compressor kicking on.

If it is in your budget at all I would recommend a 12v DC fridge. I like the alpicool as it is the cheapest DC compressor fridge I have found that also has a good reputation and reviews from people who I trust their opinions.

The sewing machines wattage is 78w 120 X 0.65 = 78
That shouldn't be an issue if it's only used a few hours a day.

If youd like I can post some links to alpicool fridges on amazon. They are not cheap. But they arent ridiculously expensive considering how efficient they are. There are also other brands that have 2 compartments on fridge one freezer. I'd prefer to have 2 separate units as I said in case of early failure of one unit.

 

[B and C]

You didn't figure in losses for the inverter to run the fridge either. Could be more than a 10% loss there too. Household appliances on a battery system are not cheap to implement. The appliances themselves are cheap and is why so many people want to use them. It is kinda pay me now or pay me later type thing. A pressure cooker (non-electric) can take the place of a crock pot. Roadpro makes a small 12V crock pot (I have one) that could be used on sunny days when your panels are putting out more than the batteries need. It can also be used when driving if your alternator is part of the charging scheme to give you a hot meal when you arrive.

 

[XERTYX]

I rewatched slim potatoheads video and noted the figures he had in his review. I'll link to the video so you can watch it yourself.

In his tests during the hottest environment he tested in (90°F I believe) its daily usage as a refrigerator was 70 watts. In freezer mode its daily usage was 456 watts.

If you had 2 of them, 1 fridge 1 freezer your daily usage would be 526 watts. Less than a quarter of the power needed by the AC fridge you listed.

 

[XERTYX]

You didn't figure in losses for the inverter to run the fridge either.  Could be more than a 10% loss there too.

That's true I didnt. To figure the amperage DC not accounting for losses at the inverter divide the AC watts by 12. The rule of thumb I use is to divide by 10 to get an idea of how many amps DC an AC appliance draws. And it's simple to do in your head. My 700 watt microwave for instance I figure it draws 70 amps. 200 watts 20 amps. Just move the decimal point over one place to the left. Quick and dirty estimate. 

Yes a 70 amp drain is massive but my microwave would only be used for 3 mins to make popcorn. So I see that as feasible. Efficient?  NO. But reasonable IMO. A little instant gratification every now and then is good for morale.

 

[tx2sturgis]

In his tests during the hottest environment he tested in (90°F I believe) its daily usage as a refrigerator was 70 watts. In freezer mode its daily usage was 456 watts.

If you had 2 of them, 1 fridge 1 freezer your daily usage would be 526 watts. Less than a quarter of the power needed by the  AC fridge you listed.

This would most likely be 70 watt-hours. 456 watt-hours, and 526 watt-hours. 

Watts is instantaneous draw, watt-hours is a measurement of wattage times hours.

Also abbreviated as wh or w-h...but should not be shown (or stated) as w/h...which is watts divided by hours, a common mistake made by the youtubers who don't fully understand the electrical concepts.

Picky? Maybe, but when we see the specs as 70 watt-hours in a day (or 24 hours) that means we know what the power consumption is for the day, and includes the 'duty cycle'.

A fridge that pulls 70 watts (not watt-hours) could consume 1680 watt-hours in a 24 hour day if it ran at 100% duty cycle. Or it might consume 168 watt-hours if it ran at 10% duty cycle.

So there is a big difference between watts and watt-hours.