How much space does one person need?

[gcal]

DH had a medical issue recently that turned out to be nothing. But he asked what I would do if he was gone. Well, I could affrord pretty much whatever I realistically wanted, but I am not sure what I would want. I know I want to stay on the road. I know that I could handle our current low 30's class a and tow vehicle, myself, now. But I don't think I would want the hassle and I am not getting any younger. We have empty bins, already. I know there would be more when the tools went. I would be paying for most of my own repairs and not doing them, myself, as he does.

So, any people who have been a couple and then went solitary, what did you do and what worked best for you?

 

[DuneElliot]

As a single gal with two dogs I have found that my 27ft 5W has provided the perfect balance between comfort and size. I could, in all reality, be good in something slightly smaller but as I am a little bit of a prepper I currently use all the storage.

22-25ft, whether Class C or B or trailer, seems to be a sweet spot between comfort and size IMO.

Sorry, I know that's not exactly what you asked but I figured since you were used to more space and are not a vandweller you would be interested in what I am comfortable in.

 

[INTJohn]

There are 'mathematical' minimums and psychological minimums. Although not the smallest living units by any means, Architects pursued the idea of 'existenzminimum' during the 20s and 30s. This was not confined to floor area, however, as it sought to determine the minimum sunlight, ventilation and open space needed for a dwelling. The approach, however, was 'scientific' or objective. Pod or capsule dwellings become popular every so often with architects and are based around aircraft like designs of interiors with everything needed built or moulded into floors, walls and ceilings. These can be as small as 32sq.ft. or 3.2sq.m. These are functionally possible but one has to question how long one can live in such a small area without suffering in some way. J.J.P. Oud's Weissenhof existenzminum design for 2-1/2 bedrooms are 1260s.f. (126s.m.) plus garden.

Psychologically or experientially, minimums are up for debate. The recent series 'The Secret Life of Buildings' by Tom Dykhoff demonstrated the negative effects of small spaces, poor lighting conditions and so on. The UK averages 760s.f (76s.m.) compared to Denmark’s 1360s.f. (136s.m.). In the 1960s and 1970s U.K. housing sizes were controlled by the Parker Morris standards. These did not, however, determine minimum sizes, but key clearances and provision, such as storage space. These standards, based on research into the lifestyle changes that had taken place since the 1940s (cheap electronics and plastics = more gadgets, therefore more storage, or more time spent in front of the television, or taking dinner in the kitchen) tried to ensure that units were suitable for contemporary life.

The Parker Morris standards are now considered extravagant and most private housing is built to lesser space standards than the public housing built in the 1960s and 1970s. Tenants and owners tend to praise the units, and they are highly sought after in the private market.
It would be interesting to carry out new research around contemporary lifestyles and come up with new Parker Morris standards that were not about area minimums, but about the minimum requirements for a (mentally and physically) healthy and comfortable life.

Obviously; one can also bring into the equation from a minimalist standpoint the fact that prison cells in the US penitentiary system have been deemed to be physical & psychological Humanitarian minimums for necessary space.

And the above is a measure & information principally describing building types but RV are only buildings with wheels so a correlation is justifiable especially when one is talking about someone who is living by choice as an un incarcerated individual.

Ultimately for a person that I assume is not incarcerated; it is your choice and only yours as to how, where & why you want to live and someone else's choice & opinion of lifestyle is really meaningless as to what will work for you........

INTJohn

 

[ArtW]

I'm okay in my 20ft travel trailer, except on days off, when I get restless (but that happened in my 2 bdrm apartment, too) even staying indoors, but a few more feet wouldn't hurt

 

[gcal]

There are 'mathematical' minimums and psychological minimums. Although not the smallest living units by any means, Architects pursued the idea of 'existenzminimum' during the 20s and 30s. This was not confined to floor area, however, as it sought to determine the minimum sunlight, ventilation and open space needed for a dwelling. The approach, however, was 'scientific' or objective. Pod or capsule dwellings become popular every so often with architects and are based around aircraft like designs of interiors with everything needed built or moulded into floors, walls and ceilings. These can be as small as 32sq.ft. or 3.2sq.m. These are functionally possible but one has to question how long one can live in such a small area without suffering in some way. J.J.P. Oud's Weissenhof existenzminum design for 2-1/2 bedrooms are 1260s.f. (126s.m.) plus garden.

Psychologically or experientially, minimums are up for debate. The recent series 'The Secret Life of Buildings' by Tom Dykhoff demonstrated the negative effects of small spaces, poor lighting conditions and so on. The UK averages 760s.f (76s.m.) compared to Denmark’s 1360s.f. (136s.m.). In the 1960s and 1970s U.K. housing sizes were controlled by the Parker Morris standards. These did not, however, determine minimum sizes, but key clearances and provision, such as storage space. These standards, based on research into the lifestyle changes that had taken place since the 1940s (cheap electronics and plastics = more gadgets, therefore more storage, or more time spent in front of the television, or taking dinner in the kitchen) tried to ensure that units were suitable for contemporary life.

The Parker Morris standards are now considered extravagant and most private housing is built to lesser space standards than the public housing built in the 1960s and 1970s. Tenants and owners tend to praise the units, and they are highly sought after in the private market.
It would be interesting to carry out new research around contemporary lifestyles and come up with new Parker Morris standards that were not about area minimums, but about the minimum requirements for a (mentally and physically) healthy and comfortable life.

Obviously; one can also bring into the equation from a minimalist standpoint the fact that prison cells in the US penitentiary system have been deemed to be physical & psychological Humanitarian minimums for necessary space.

And the above is a measure & information principally describing building types but RV are only buildings with wheels so a correlation is justifiable especially when one is talking about someone who is living by choice as an un incarcerated individual.

Ultimately for a person that I assume is not incarcerated; it is your choice and only yours as to how, where & why you want to live and someone else's choice & opinion of lifestyle is really meaningless as to what will work for you........

INTJohn

Wow, John, just wow. That's a lot to digest. 

But I did a little thinking about what I would require after reading it. 

First, no, a regular conversion van would not work. I am tall - 5'7". I am old and have mild arthritis, so I don't bend like I used to. I need headroom. I would like some sort of solar arrangement so I can boondock more, which we don't do now because DH likes hookups. I want a bed that stays a bed and some sort of table to eat and use my computer at. I don't want to fuss with a toad. I don't cook much if it is just me, but some kind of kitchen is necessary. I like my own shower for rinsing off, but even now have to use campground showers when I want to wash my thick hair, or I run out of hot water.

I have very few clothes - a least by my old standards, and I find that I like it that way. When I lost my first 25 pounds, I gave all my "fat" clothes to thrift shops and replaced only what I actually wore. 25 pounds more to go, and I think that philosophy has become permanent. Still have a weakness for shoes and bags. 

The dog, if it is still alive, weighs just over 20 pounds.

I must have a place for everything and everything in its place. Having been raised by a dysfunctional, lunatic hoarder, living in clutter makes me crazy.

I think I am describing either a large class B or a small class C, probably newer and without major issues. I am pretty sure that is what I am describing. So, at least now I know.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

. . .
So, any people who have been a couple and then went solitary, what did you do and what worked best for you?

Depends.  Location, mental state, time of year.  I need more space if stuck inside because of weather.  I need more space if SADD is affecting me.  I need more space when there is less sun (winter, overcast, etc.) or annoying bugs.

I am very comfortable in 56 sq. ft. when I can be outside a lot; I need ~500 sq. ft. and lots of windows if stuck inside.

 -- Spiff

 

[Ballenxj]

I'm okay in my 20ft travel trailer, except on days off, when I get restless (but that happened in my 2 bdrm apartment, too) even staying indoors, but a few more feet wouldn't hurt

I'm in a 24ft TT, but keep in mind, the living space is more like 20ft, as they always include the tongue in the advertised size.
Now on to the question, how much room do you rally need to live "out" of? For me I find I really don't need that much space with the exception of storing my stuff. How much "stuff" you have to lug around really is the determining factor here.
I like to have a small closet with a couple small drawers for all my clothing. Jackets and coats will hang outside of the areas on hooks, because they take up too much room in the closet. A bed that fits me, some sort of bathroom facilities, a fridge with a couple cabinets for food and I'm set.
I'm cheating a bit though, as I do also have an enclosed 10ft trailer for storage of larger items.
Stuff, yeah, that's the problem here.

 

[ArtW]

Yup, my Trailer is called an '18BH, so pretty sure 20.5 feet adds up to 18 ft living space
When I stay in a hotel room, the standard 12'x24' seems quite luxurious in contrast (yes, I measured lol)
My apartment was larger, but had it stuffed with 'stuff' mostly junk me and Jeanne bought that we had no real use for

 

[bullfrog]

I met an a woman in her 80's still traveling in a T@B trailer. She was an Escapee and a member of Red Hat woman's club. It had electric jacks and quick disconnects as to be easy to set up although she almost always had someone where ever she went meeting her to help. She spent a lot of time outside except for bad weather and arranged cruises or trips for herself and "older friends" of hers in the winter. She didn't have a bathroom as such in the trailer or much at all because she always camped at parks with pools and facilities. She said the reason was she didn't like clutter or cleaning. She pulled it with a smaller modified SUV, V8 and heavier brakes and springs. A lot of how big depends on how physically capable you remain. My wife has a permanently broken ankle that may make our current set up of 28' motor home home base and home built 12' trailer when traveling difficult as it worsens. I am really inspired by the people on the road and the RTR with handicaps. I'm thinking maybe a toy hauler with rear ramp, ATV's, self levelers, electric hitch, open bathroom kitchen area and electric drop down bed maybe around 24' pulled with 1 ton van maybe. But if your organized we have considered even 2 vans. Standing room, no big steps, easy access shower and toilet, sleeping area/ sitting area clothing storage is possible in a hightop van or as little as a 12' trailer.

 

[gcal]

Yup, my Trailer is called an '18BH, so pretty sure 20.5 feet adds up to 18 ft living space
When I stay in a hotel room, the standard 12'x24' seems quite luxurious in contrast (yes, I measured lol)
My apartment was larger, but had it stuffed with 'stuff' mostly junk me and Jeanne bought that we had no real use for

I still have tons of stuff I have no real use for. A couple large Dooney&Burke bags that I love, but can't use because they make my back hurt. 2 cameras that used to be my favorites, but are now way out classed by my phone. Blankets and sheets that will probably never get used. Too many frying pans. Too much kitchen kitsch, in general, that is never used.  Office supplies. Too many souvenier sun visers. Flashlights, exercise gizmos, 2 dozen prs of socks. A third, unused tv that we were going to give to the grandson but he did not want. A metal detector that has not seen daylight in 3 years. Favorite books that I seldom read and could download onto my Nook. Little by little over the last 4 years, it has been going. That's why we now have empty bins. I think, if I ever had to move ibto a smaller space, that I would be surprised at how much junk I have still been dragging around.

 

[DrJean]

Remember that Bob wants us to limit our quoting of other posts.. .makes it near impossible for some people to read a thread

Once I again as I think about how much space... I hear my dad.. (rephrasing his "how many pairs of shoes can you wear at one time") ask... how many rooms can you be in at one time?

I spend 15-20 minutes a day sitting outside watching the world go by with the dog lying at my feet and a few more minutes each time with him chasing a ball or frisbee.... maybe 4-5 times a day! Adding in the time to rest (he demands we nap) sleep, fix meals and eat... I mean... one has to schedule in more fun activity anyway!

I like INT John's reply about mathematical and psychological space... as Dr Seuss says, "I can read with my eyes closed" !

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Size of space is such a personal thing. As there are members on this forum in Prius's and then there are members in everything in between all the way up to school buses and large Class A's. I think a good place to start when trying to decide is your lifestyle. Do you like spending a lot of time indoors or do you like spending a lot of time outdoors. If the majority of your time is spent outdoors, than I think it's much easier to gravitate towards a smaller space. Storage space is also different with people's different lifestyles. Carrying around a lot of outdoor gear requires additional space...snowboard, backpacks, tents, rock climbing gear, fishing gear, etc.

I spent the last six months in a 27 foot travel trailer, 23' inside. The only thing I didn't have that I would have liked was a sitting area or recliner. I could have removed the rear bunks to get it, but then i'd have lost all the storage I liked. Could remove the dinette but I also like using that as a desk. If I were to keep it I probably would have downsized the bed to a twin and then put a comfortable chair in the extra space and it would have been perfect. Or I could have reduced the size of the dinette, but with water tanks and furnace under them it wasn't possible. So layout also plays an important factor when considering size. You could have two very different feeling 24' trailers/rv's. Adding a 2nd person to my trailer made it very uncomfortable. But i've never been great at "sharing space" anyways.

 

[gcal]

I spent the last six months in a 27 foot travel trailer, 23' inside.  The only thing I didn't have that I would have liked was a sitting area or recliner.  I could have removed the rear bunks to get it, but then i'd have lost all the storage I liked.  Could remove the dinette but I also like using that as a desk.  If I were to keep it I probably would have downsized the bed to a twin and then put a comfortable chair in the extra space and it would have been perfect.  Or I could have reduced the size of the dinette, but with water tanks and furnace under them it wasn't possible.  So layout also plays an important factor when considering size.  You could have two very different feeling 24' trailers/rv's.  Adding a 2nd person to my trailer made it very uncomfortable.  But i've never been great at "sharing space" anyways.

Right now, we are 2 people in a low 30's class A. Absolutely necessary for us is separate spaces where we are not living in each other's pockets. He has his tv and computer area up front. I have my tv and computer area in back. If there was only me, I would not need the whole back of our rig.

Had not really thought about this, before. My family does heart disease like it's a competitive sport on both sides. I always thought he would be the one who had to deal with being alone. Now, I guess I better start paying attention when he wants to tell me about the finances.

 

[DrJean]

Yes space is personal...especially van living! I suspect that if I met another someone we would each have our own van!

 

[akrvbob]

I think I am describing either a large class B or a small class C, probably newer and without major issues. I am pretty sure that is what I am describing. So, at least now I know.

If anyone asks me what to buy and they need the standard systems of an RV, this is my exact advice for them. You just can't beat a large Class B or a small Class C. 

A couple issues that may help you decide:

• Do you need the best MPG or more room/comfort? It sounds like you are pretty comfortable with money so I would say this one goes to the Class C.
• Can you live with the closed in feeling of a Class B and need more storage than it can offer? Again, it sounds like for you a Class C is best.
• Can you afford the high prices of a newer Class B? This sounds like a non-issue to you, but still you can get a lot better Class C for the same money as a Class B.

If I were you I'd put a 24 foot Class C at the top of the of the list, but also explore a 18-22 foot one as well. If I had to live in a RV, they would be my choice.

 

[Ticklebellly]

A couple needs about three times as much space as a Solo. I came to that conclusion after observing that two people using the same space run into co-coordination issues. I can live for extended periods in a campervan, alone. Travelling as a couple in the campervan is always less than a couple of days before the partner gets a bit cranky.

I can also make do very well in the hygine department with Porta Pottie and bucket shower. My partner is much more rigid in her want of a proper toilet facility and shower, inside the RV. The toilet/shower module in our Travel Trailer takes up so much more real estate than seems justified for the amount of time it is used each day. However, that dedicated space has an enormous effect the harmony experienced when on the road.

Have I just given examples of mathematical space and psychological space perspectives in discussing the original question?

 

[hepcat]

I can only speak for my wife and I, but 25' of 'living space' in an RV seems to be the sweet spot between having enough room and storage, and having an RV that you can get in and out of anywhere with. I lived with my dog in a 23' Airstream Safari Special for almost a year in the lat '80s, and it was just a tad cramped, but I made do.

After that, and having had a parade of trailers and mohos over the years from 13' to 34', we settled on a Bigfoot 25' rear queen trailer as being 'just right.' We had the Bigfoot for nine years and were quite happy with it. I looked annually to see if there was anything better suited for the way we travel, and didn't find anything until two years ago when I found our Born Free 32' rear island queen Super-C moho. The living space in the moho is also about 25'. We switched to the moho because we don't stay in one place more than a couple of days, and it's easier and less work hitching a towed behind it than it is hitching a trailer behind a pickup. It's also more convenient having the jeep as a daily driver than the pickup, and the moho is also more convenient when traveling for staying at rest-stops and/or parking lots and still having the comfort(s) I want because of the generator. Having the moho is, overall, just a lot more convenient for us.

Although I really appreciate a full-time bed, when I travel solo with the dogs, the 19' B-van suits me just fine.

How much space one needs is truly a personal choice.

 

[bullfrog]

Hepcat sounds like an ideal set up. Easy to service and maintain while traveling. I like the little Samurai as a towed better than Jeeps but they are small. Wish it were possible to let motorized rigs sit longer periods without problems. We have had mice destroy wiring, fuel/ gas gel, tires and seals dry rot in our 28' class A motor home since it has sat in one place so long, never had any problems while traveling but was such a good buy it saved us money and allowed us to do this. Since we travel so little now a 12' trailer and 4 x 4 Tacoma is working well, but as we wanting to start traveling again we are wondering if this will be enough space. Great post.

 

[SoulRaven]

For me, and it looks like I might be getting closer to my dream, a teardrop would suffice. Why? Because "less is more" to me. I don't want to shrink my life into a smaller space where I basically have all the trappings of household chores, but change the way I live. For my husband, he is fine with keeping the TT for himself.

For me, just the minimum to upkeep and care for, teardrop, just enough space for me and my best girl, Rinnie!

 

[bigsallysmom]

Our two dogs take up lots more room than a human.