How do you carry, if you carry a gun?

[vanbrat]

Thank You 
All things we need to think about. 
My son carries (not full time, but as he feels needed) and has 2-3 times had to mostly just show and tell someone to back off, And they did. But he is also one of the people who says train, practice and more practice. He is not totally crazy about our plans, but then again I'm not really crazy about some of the stuff he does that he feels may need to carry. He got called out by a cop once when on his way somewhere and a his gun was seen under his coat. But after talking for 5 or so minutes with the cop they agreed if the cop did not have the training he would not have know what the bump under the coat was. And if he was going were kido was going he would carry too. Kido, then by Mama, was told if it is that bad DON"T GO THERE. But nobody ever listens to Mama.... He did not tell me what he was doing just that he was helping a friend who really needed help.

 

[crofter]

The only way to carry is legally. Find out what is legal where you are and follow to the letter of the law.

Training is as important as being legal. If you do not have excellent marksmanship and gun handling, you should train, or use some other form of defense. Frontsite has classes starting in September, after completing 4 day handgun you can take your Nevada test and also apply for a permit in your home state. 

Yes you do have to pass a marksmanship test. You can not take back any of your missed shots in real life. Train, train, train.

https://www.frontsight.com/

-crofter

 

[Amigatec]

I have several hand guns that I carry at different times, for different reasons. I plan on making at least one trip to New England, and I have planned as much of my trip as possible to avoid states with arcane gun laws. When I go I will leave my handguns with a friend, and carry the 12 Ga ShotGun, in a lockable mount.

Most states don't have any real problems with long guns, and shotguns.

 

[wayne49]

The current Nye County sheriff laid her duty weapon on the back of the toilet in a casino, where she was having a business lunch. She got interrupted by a phone call and left the sidearm behind.

 

[MrNoodly]

...your situational awareness is (ideally) forever "switched on".

I've seen a lot of armed citizens whose minds were miles away. I'm tempted to go up to them and say, "Bang you're dead, because you weren't paying attention. Doesn't do any good to carry if you're not constantly vigilant."

 

[Amigatec]

I use an IWB holster for my Glock 19X, and its so comfortable, sometimes I forget it's there, but I'm always aware of my surroundings.

I always try to turn my strong side away from people.

The Glock comes standard with a 17 or 19 round mag, I ordered a 10 round just for it. The Gun Store didn't have any in stock because nobody has asked for one.

 

[barleyguy]

The current Nye County sheriff laid her duty weapon on the back of the toilet in a casino, where she was having a business lunch. She got interrupted by a phone call and left the sidearm behind.

Reminds me... The police cars here in Wyoming have a shotgun mount in the center console with a shotgun in it. A few years ago there were 4 cop cars sitting outside a concert with their doors unlocked, and someone helped themselves to 4 shotguns.

 

[Amigatec]

We had a Deputy practising his quick draw into the squad car, and blow a hole through the transmission.

 

[ichiban]

The current Nye County sheriff laid her duty weapon on the back of the toilet in a casino, where she was having a business lunch. She got interrupted by a phone call and left the sidearm behind.

that happens a lot.  Rental cars are a common place people forget their firearms.  The majority of those individuals are law enforcement too.

 

[tradesman]

I would suggest bear spray as alternative and addition to your pepper spray. Compared to typical pepper spray it sprays much stronger and farther. The benefit to a firearm is that it’s unlikely to kill someone or yourself having/using it. Of course certain states restrict its use just like pepper spray but less than a firearm. Btw I’m not against firearms but if you don’t practice and train a lot (like others have said) I think it’s risky and has consequences that can’t be undone.
Plus if you are ever in the woods and come across a bear or mountain lion you are ready.

 

[Stargazer]

My Dad, many years ago, took me out to shoot his long gun and pistol.  He gave me the pistol.  It sat in the closet.  Twenty plus years later, my husband took me to a range and I fired it a few times.  Sat in the closet another twenty years.  But I "knew" how to use it, right?

Wrong!  I recently decided to take the NRA basic pistol class.  I do not intend to carry,  rather as a home defense. And maybe a hobby.  I quickly realized how ignorant I am about handguns!  I now am taking private lessons from a retired LEO, who is a gun collector and each time, he brings a different one or two because the two I have do not fit me.  I will continue taking these lessons for a while.

So YES!  Train Train Train!!!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I would suggest bear spray as alternative and addition to your pepper spray . . .

One should not carry any device for protection that they are not familiar with and have practiced with - that includes pepper spray, especially in windy conditions.

There are a few problems with using bear spray:
 - it is only about 1/2 as strong as pepper spray.
 - the spray pattern is different than pepper spray.
 - it is worse than useless in a headwind; it will incapacitate you.
 - it won't stop someone hopped up on drugs.

The nice thing about bear spray is you won't get a second look carrying it anywhere out west.  Boston or NYC, you might have problems.

 

[nature lover]

I don’t use bear spray pepper spray guns or anything I just cook up lots of beans on the campfire that I have the blazing saddles defense. Once that gets in your eyes they can’t see anything. This method is legal in all 50 states and you can cross the borders legally with cans beans. Do you know why farts stink, don’t you? So that deaf people can enjoy them too.

 

[Malamute]

Youve had fair and poor advice offered. Study up a bit on the different aspects of training and laws. Travelling with guns isnt nearly as much an issue as some make it out to be. Theres a couple eastern states that are more difficult, New York and New Jersey come to mind right off the top of my head, but,....there are federal laws intended to make it legal to travel with firearms, at least if cased, unloaded, not easily accessible etc as required in some places.

I believe New Jersey does not allow hollowpoint pistol ammo.

Some states dont allow magazines over certain capacities.

Heres one place to start studying laws. There are others, you can google "carry laws by state" or similar.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/

Also, all training isnt created equal, get reviews and references on prospective trainers. Being in the military and law enforcement isnt a good indicator of their knowledge or ability to teach well, and much of what was applicable to military arms usage isnt really applicable to civilian carry and use. Id suggest Tom and Lynn Givens at Rangemaster if its possible to get in one of their classes, they have them at various places around the country.

Another good resource is Claude Werner, his website is https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/ He often covers topics not commonly discussed, or poorly so in many online venues. His pieces on negative outcomes are very good.

Also, are you considering carrying concealed on you, or simply having a gun in the vehicle available? That changes the picture very much. No particular permit is required to have one in the vehicle in most places, even loaded and ready in many states. Laws between long guns and handguns also varies in some places, Last I looked at Nebraska, you can have a loaded handgun in a vehicle, but not a rifle or shotgun, they are concerned about poaching, but self defense is OK. Most western mountain states have fairly relaxed firearms laws. Many have no permit requirements to open carry, but concealed carry often requires one, though not in every state. Concealed is probably best for what your needs are.

Ive carried either an S&W J frame (small 5 shot revolver) or Colt D frame (small 6 shot revolver) in my right front pocket with a speedloader (and 2 speed strips in the watch pocket) in the same pocket for many years without issue, other than the material they make pockets out of isnt very sturdy. I end up sewing the worn spots, or often using a milk jug plastic holster made with duct tape, it protects the pocket somewhat. All the pocket holsters Ive seen other than the milk jug plastic ones Ive made raise the gun up on the pocket an unacceptable amount to me, I prefer just the gun in the pocket. It works very well in Carhartt pants, and still works fine in jeans, at least the LL Bean jeans I inherited.

Ive carried openly extensively over the years, but that was the only legal way to carry in the past years, and I was primarily out in the hills camping, nomading, and adventuring. Thats not really applicable to this discussion, so enough on that.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

A lot has been said about training and that is great but all those LEO in the news lately, that have, I assume extensive training, are still screwing up in tense situations.

 

[Malamute]

I believe that would be assuming too much. Some departments do train what could be termed extensively, many others let political leadership determine training budgets, with the term budget, unfortunately often being the operative element. 

 The town in Texas that had the problems with the jihadis that raided the "draw Mohamed" thing dealt with it quite well. Those familiar with their leadership and training werent the least surprised at how well they handled it. Same for Austin where the horse patrol officer made a one handed shot on a gunman from across the town square (312 feet, or a bit over 100 yards), while holding the reins of two horses in the other hand, one shot, done. They also trained well and extensively. Those are the exceptions, rather than the norm unfortunately. 
 
 Many in political police leadership, (as opposed to practical leadership with meaningful street experience) often feel that anything beyond barely passing state qualifications is too intimidating to the public and too hard for most officers. 

 Seeing some of the videos of the issues that have made headlines, many of the participants look like they dont have much training or experience dealing with people resisting arrest and otherwise being uncooperative, and it can spiral out of hand quickly. Also unfortunately, the leadership has been hamstringing the officers on the street from doing anything to prevent many of the problems, and then they want them to somehow stop it after it gets out of hand.

 

[Pleasant Travels]

Dozens of police officers around the country every year go to prison for having improperly fired on people. And this is despite the training they have and knowledge of the law AND great deference they usually receive from those in power.

If they can be prosecuted for misapplication or illegitimate or unjustified use of a weapon,...so can you, obviously.

Knowing HOW to shoot (depending on who you ask) is not as important as knowing WHEN to shoot (or NOT shoot, as the case may be). And acquiring that knowledge comes (primarily) from quality training. Any gun school worth their salt includes this in their curriculum and spends a LOT of time on it.

The extreme short form, however, is you need to be able to articulate to a jury (if it comes to that) why it was reasonable for any of them to have done the same thing in those circumstances you found yourself. There is of course more to it than that, but on the whole, nearly all jurisdictions review self-defense instances according to a "reasonable person" standard. Would a reasonable person have done this? Would a reasonable person have been where you were, doing what you were doing? Would a reasonable person have interpreted the actions of their assailant as you did?

As I said earlier, entire books are written on this topic, and for good reason.

 

[Malamute]

Knowing HOW to shoot (depending on who you ask) is not as important as knowing WHEN to shoot (or NOT shoot, as the case may be). 

 Thats some of what Claude Werner discusses in the previously linked site https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/  Look up posts in the negative outcomes section to start.

 One of his recent posts mentioned "[font=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]When you carry a gun, you give up the right to defend your honor"  [/font] which is a point too many dont seem to get. The operative issue is, if you cant control your emotions, you may not be a good candidate to carry a firearm. Road rage, insults, personal slights are not life or death issues, unless one makes them so (not related to defending oneself from psychos that dont get that point). Many people that choose to carry have come to the conclusion that they swallow their pride and ignore far more of the stupidity of other people since they started carrying. If one becomes the aggressor and instigate or provoke an incident, you can lose the self defense claim.

 Another good resource related to traveling with guns,   https://handgunlaw.us/

 It came up in a discussion elsewhere, someone was planning to travel, and at first felt the hurdles may be too great to mess with. Upon learning of the actual laws in the places he planned to go realized it wasnt as much of an issue that he had been told in online forums due to faulty information from secondhand hearsay and outdated info.

 

[MG1912]

Be very careful. Have a resident concealed carry permit for your home state and as many nonresident permits as the budget and time will allow. With just two, strategically-chosen permits, you might be able to carry almost everywhere, with the exception (usually) of South Carolina, the West Coast (Cal, Ore, Was), and the obvious New England states (Mass, Conn, Rho, etc.). Technically, you are allowed to traverse those states with firearms, per federal law, but they have to be in locked containers (separate from the ammo, which is supposed to be in a separate locked container) in a location not reachable from the driver's seat. That usually means a trunk or in the camper. And you're not allowed to stop and stay in those states unless it's just to get gas or something like that.

Bear in mind that the above does not mean you will be in the clear in 100% of cases. The laws are funny and are not always applied consistently. I have read about people being arrested and having to go to court while legally traversing California with their guns and ammo locked up per the federal laws. They managed to beat their cases, but they still were arrested and went to jail.

And if you decide to carry in a state where you are not allowed to carry, the penalties can be very strict. I can tell you that there is a mandatory one-year sentence in Massachusetts, for example. In fact, there was a famous case here where a guy was woken up in his home in NH, right over the Mass border, by a criminal attempting to abduct his daughter. He chased the guy out and then chased him in his vehicle across the Mass border. The cops caught the criminal, but they also found the father's loaded pistol in his glove box. He spent a year locked up in Mass.

So basically, carrying is an individual choice, a great responsibility, and potentially fraught with incredible penalties, so know the laws!

I am not a lawyer, and nothing I have written in this post constitutes legal advice.

 

[crofter]

.... a criminal attempting to abduct his daughter.  He chased the guy out and then chased him in his vehicle across the Mass border.  The cops caught the criminal, but they also found the father's loaded pistol in his glove box.  He spent a year locked up....

What is your life worth? Is your life worth spending a year in jail so you and your loved ones can continue living? 
-crofter