How are you all doing in COVID-19 times?

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Where I live there hasn’t been a death since March I think, no cases in the community, Xmas will happen almost as usual, except for contact tracing, most people believed the authorities, trusted the science, counted on our adult leaders to behave, trust the scientist refrain from creating chaos to indulge their egos and not indulge those that have tendencies towards conspiracy theories and not trusting the media
 
^Just curious, what state do you live in? I’d like to know the governor’s name or the community leader’s for future reference that inspired your community and thank them.
 
Tips his hat, "each to his/her own."

Science is proven wrong all the time...lol.

People claiming they did things, I can't find, I saw no reference to scientific anything. Just post a random statement. Maybe I missed it but, really, not worth going back to check. An open mind is an endangered species when fear is rampant.

Lol, can 'feel' the seething in some posts. <sigh>

Peace!
 
bullfrog said:
^Just curious, what state do you live in? I’d like to know the governor’s name or the community leader’s for future reference that inspired your community and thank them.
So the Kurbmaster can still be private, there were 4 counties in the US without any covid 19 cases, now down to one county in Hawaii, link to article below. I am guessing the Kurbmaster is in Hawaii or wishes he was.
-crofter
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-free-counties-america/story?id=73443542
 
crofter said:
So the Kurbmaster can still be private, there were 4 counties in the US without any covid 19 cases, now down to one county in Hawaii, link to article below. I am guessing the Kurbmaster is in Hawaii or wishes he was.
-crofter
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-free-counties-america/story?id=73443542
Sources for the above listed article are cited after each segment, including:
Johns Hopkins
US Census
Health Resources & Services Administration
Jorge A. Caballero of Coders Against Covid
and other named sources and data.
Hope that helps identify "what is a fact"
-crofter
 
Thirty more dead today (Wednesday) in Dallas County.  Youngest in his 20's.  Six had no underlying health conditions.
 
bullfrog said:
^Just curious, what state do you live in? I’d like to know the governor’s name or the community leader’s for future reference that inspired your community and thank them.

FKM lives in Australia. A country with only 3.2 people per square mile which is 28 times less dense than the U.S. and many,many times less dense than Europe.

It also has a much smaller population of 25 million compared to 1 billion in Europe.

It's great that they've avoided being hit hard but those figures make a big difference.

But I agree. Our leaders have mishandled this miserably. Like most of the rest of the world.
 
We have had an additional person test positive and because they traveled and no tests were available here they returned to work. We now have several people in isolation as they share a dorm with a community kitchen. Definitely staying clear of everyone for a couple weeks and headed to the lonely part of the lake.
 
So sorry to hear this is on your doorstep, bullfrog. Seems like travel is a factor, but then how did Skagway AK escape with all the cruise ships docking? 

I appreciate everyone's honesty on this thread. Many of us feel passionately and saddened by the huge loss of life that was preventable. None of us are saying or feeling anything negative about those with different views. I am sure some frustration is coming through. 

I will try to post some of the sources when I post a link. I am still questioning what is different about the US death toll, so much higher than elsewhere.
-crofter
 
crofter said:
I am still questioning what is different about the US death toll, so much higher than elsewhere.
-crofter

Hmmm.... from a Scandinavian perspective, the main difference between the US, and some other places, like for instance Scandinavia, at first glance, it seems that the leadership did not step up - at the beginning of it all.

Second issue was, that the experienced scientists did not seem to get the best of support from the political leadership.

And this lead to the third big challenge: Division.


If the political leadership,
makes every effort to listen to, and to include, the insights of the experienced experts,
and are secondly able to rally as much political support as possible, 
and if the political leadership is THEN (finally and thirdly) able to make, a mutually trustworthy contract with the people.
Then we are all off to a very good start. 

But in the end, it is up to the people,
to then choose to follow what ever (often simple) advice or guidelines,

that the political leadership decides to make the beacon (or banner) that  the people can follow.


In such a scenario, things will turn out, as well as they possibly can. 



But once division creeps in,
at any level of this process,
and for what ever reason,
then the outcome has a very high risk
of not being as optimal as one could hope for. 

Or if the beacon (or banner) is not clearly communicated, then fewer will follow. 


Also: Very soon after the first presentation of 'the beacon to follow',
further details, and further facts - as they were argued or presented by the experts - needs to be made easily available,
so the people who likes to think for themselves, gets a chance to scrutinize the detailed facts and strategies that lead the experts to recommend that certain path, to the political leadership. 

Political leadership is however not only facts and data, it is also based on ideals, principles and visions. 


So a level of well communicated details, showing why certain aspects of ideals, principles and visions, were chosen, will also need to be evident (or presented) after the initial beacon has been set as a landmark. 

---

Well, this is just my personal opinion.

It is derived from experiences and observation from several different types of crises or conflict. 

It is however just my personal vision of how I see optimal (political) leadership may function well.

So your mileage may vary   ;)

--- 

However: at second glance
(read: when the powers of nature change the game - and in this instance specifically winter)
a new and changed situation needs to be assessed. 

It very much seem to me, that temperature plays a very huge role in how long this virus thing, can survive 'out in the open'. 

And survivability 'out in the open' (for any virus) is crucial for how many people will get affected (and infected). 

So it seems to me, that when nature plays us all a twist, then we get a second chance/view of how well the leadership has learned to work together.  During the play of a prolonged crises. 


Front row seats at round 2:

We also get a second chance to get first row seats at discovering how aspects of the process has allowed a breading ground for 'division' to become part of the game. 

And we get a second round of seeing how well leadership is able to deal with all of these cracks within the expert layers, and the leadership/management layers. 
And if the leadership is able to continue to manage or create a sense of cohesion among the people, as in 'we are all in this together' - because essentially it is 'mother nature' who is taking us all for spin. 

Or is division, by now, the main name of the game. 

---

Well, again, these are just some of my personal views and observations. 


Does any of this however ring any bells with you (the reader of this)? 

---

Good and factual (preferably credible) data 

And finally, the question I always ask myself in all of this, how and where can I get fairly reliable data and a somewhat credible projection or vision? 

So far I have discovered, that if I can get access to the data, that very local managers need (and use) to make day to day operations survive-and-function, then I can get a good feel of how serious the winds might be blowing. 

And likewise, I can get access to some of the same data that the top brass uses, to make decisions, and to formulate their weekly forecasts (and beacons) from, then I can, again, better access for my self, the general direction of the storm. 


So, how well do you feel that all of these aspects are being communicated to you, in your specific setting? 
So you can better make personal, and very individual choices about how to best ride out this storm? 

---

As one of my main points, at the top of my rant, was: 

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]in the end - it is up to the people - [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]to then choose to follow the (often simple) advice or guidelines [/font]


--- 

Do you feel that there is a well functioning, mutually trustworthy,  'contract' between leadership, and the people? 

Have you looked at the countries where this particular crises, has been handled with seemingly good results - and have you been able to determine: if the leadership has been able to present a mutually trustworthy plan, between all levels of leadership - and the people? 

Or are all the good results simply growing from the people, because of good traditions of community, and a high leve of care and compassion between and among the people? 

--- 


So crofter, has my rant been of any use to you?
 
We have in Atlanta the same way, without masks do not go out, really in public places without fear and do not look back. Always sitting at home, the problem is even to go to the store. I wish it was over already.
 
there wasn't a lot of mask wearing in my small town in New Mexico.

29% of the residents in the town have tested positive for Covid-19.

The case fatality rate in the county is 6.2%

You see more mask wearing here recently.
Ted
 
MrAlvinDude said:
...As one of my main points, at the top of my rant, was: 

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]in the end - it is up to the people - [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]to then choose to follow the (often simple) advice or guidelines [/font]


--- 

Do you feel that there is a well functioning, mutually trustworthy,  'contract' between leadership, and the people? 

Have you looked at the countries where this particular crises, has been handled with seemingly good results - and have you been able to determine: if the leadership has been able to present a mutually trustworthy plan, between all levels of leadership - and the people? 

Or are all the good results simply growing from the people, because of good traditions of community, and a high leve of care and compassion between and among the people? 

--- 


So crofter, has my rant been of any use to you?
Thank you for your well thought out response, MrAlvinDude.

Posting this article which faults the lack of strong leadership at the federal level, and cites weak health departments. In the pandemic 100 years ago, laws were enacted including penalties for not following the public health strategy. Not wearing the mask was a stiff $100 fine and was enforced. 100 years ago congress was able to come together with a science based strategy and enact laws to carry it out. That has not happened in this pandemic.

As a side note, the article also states that young americans are less healthy than the youth of other countries.

Here is a link to the article, sources of data and sources of funding for the research are cited at the end of the article.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771841

You state that is up to the people to follow the simple public health guidelines. I have encountered many people who have the death wish, actually courting death by covid 19. The behaviors of attending gatherings, closely packed together whether for social contact or for travel have the same result- more infections and deaths. I have heard from people that herd immunity is the answer, by getting everyone in the US sick with covid 19 and having the virus take its toll, a death wish.

From what I know, the death wish method of gaining herd immunity has the very highest death toll possible and is least effective. Yet that is the method being used by half the population of the US who have the death wish. As a defense, those with the death wish say, well you have to die of something.

My way of dealing right now is to stay in my house. Not even sure if I should be opening the windows.
-crofter
 
crofter said:
... is up to the people to follow the simple public health guidelines. I have encountered many people who have the death wish, actually courting death by covid 19. The behaviors of attending gatherings, closely packed together whether for social contact or for travel have the same result- more infections and deaths. I have heard from people that herd immunity is the answer, by getting everyone in the US sick with covid 19 and having the virus take its toll, a death wish.

From what I know, the death wish method of gaining herd immunity has the very highest death toll possible and is least effective. Yet that is the method being used by half the population of the US who have the death wish. As a defense, those with the death wish say, well you have to die of something...
This early article from March predicts 40 million deaths this year if no public health precautions are followed. Link to article.
https://www.businessinsider.com/cov...people-could-die-without-interventions-2020-3

Currenty deaths less than 2 million from over 80 million cases worldwide. One in fourty death rate for those infected worldwide. You do not want to catch this.
-crofter
 
Well it looks like the survivors won’t have to worry about Social Security or over crowding if people continue to travel and gather in celebrations and parties. I wonder how far behind funeral homes are getting? Last I heard Canadian interests had bought most of the mom and pop family owned ones in the USA. Bet they will be getting very rich.
 
So sad. The US rate is slightly better at one in fifty chance of dying if you become infected. Tell that to the guy on my street who died this month.

I disagree that the survivors win, cos if I survive I will get to help pay for all this through more taxes. Would have been less expensive in all ways if everyone had done as they were told by the CDC.
-crofter
 
As my grandmother used to say “You can’t get blood out of a turnip!” In other words if you don’t have any money it will be hard for them to see any gains from taxing the poor. Judging by the stimulus checks they seem to think anybody making below $75,000 needs help! Shows how little they realize how many people there are that live on social security which is much less than that!
 

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