Gender-based rooms

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

I thought gender equality was fought for and won by the women of North America.  Maybe it's time to start a Men's Lib movement.  In today's society there seem to be more and more women-only clubs starting up.  If I start a men's club today I will be ostracised, but women are free to behave in this manner.   My point is: gender-based anything should not be tolerated.

mockturtle · Jan 2, 2013

It is my understanding that a men's only forum was already started here.  I have no problem with that.  Do you also think restrooms should be genderless? 

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

mockturtle said:
It is my understanding that a men's only forum was already started here.  I have no problem with that.  Do you also think restrooms should be genderless? 

I assume you are speaking of the Solo Travelers room.  My understanding was that is a dating room and not restricted to post by men.  Although the room description gives the wrong impression. Of course rest rooms should be gender specific. The issue here is inclusiveness.  Allowing gender exclusion is a slippery slope that should be avoided.

mockturtle · Jan 2, 2013

No, the thread I alluded to was called 'old guys forum' or something like that.  Haven't seen it for a month or so. 

cyndi · Jan 2, 2013

Dfunkt, I am not sure you are alluding to the forum or life in general. If it's the forum, the men discussed and created their, Men's Only, forum here: https://vanlivingforum.com/post/old-guys-6079833 At the time, the general consensus was that they had no problem with women posting in the thread. If you'd like your opinion to be considered, please participate in the poll and vote. https://vanlivingforum.com/post/Poll-The-Girls-Room-6140878?trail=15#8

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

I would make the same argument over a men-only room.

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

From the Old Guys thread:

twokniveskatie said:
Hey old guys- If ya just wanna talk about guy stuff, and girls aren't restricted, then that sounds like its just threads that belong under chit chat! Anyone can join that is interested in the topic. There really has to be a limit to the actual number of forums or our home page will end up being in multiple. I am up and around some, but not well enough to tackle some of the tidying I have planned. After that is done we can reassess what forums we want. I get lots and lots of suggestions and requests every week. We are going to have to pick and choose thoughtfully. Right now we have multiple for dating and meeting and solo travelers. I'm hoping to merge some of them, or sumthin. But I can tell you they drug me out of bed and down to the shooting range below the farmhouse today. I was whining and moaning and coughing. Then they stuck an AK-15 in my arms. Whoa, that perked me up. Taught me how to use it, and I took 9 out of 10 zombies out with head shots. I was food! Edited: I was "GOOD". Although its true, if I only shot 9 out of 10, then I was food, eh.

I seems the same argument should be applied to a girls-only room.

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

Welcome to the tribe!  Girls to the left.. boys to the right. It's like the 1950's all over again. Edit:  It's a sad world when an opinionated person like me becomes the voice of reason.

twokniveskatie · Jan 2, 2013

this subject has been of special interest to me. last year i was involved in a rather extensive discussion (a very widely opinioned but surprisingly civil) between men and women regarding "women only buses and train cars". there were links to articles about countries that had segregated public transportation for women's safety....to prevent groping and fondling and actual rape. i was stunned, and so against the idea. people questioned my vehemence, and said how thoughtful it was of the cities to provide such a thing. my thought was forget the "women only cars". give the women stun guns, and teach them to use them. then provide a "men only car" for the protection of the men who are unable to control their impulses. restrict the ones with the problem. i am not sure if, or how, that applies here. i want to give you some idea of how strongly i feel about some of these issues. i have said from the beginning that i was on the fence about the "girls room" and the issue of exclusion. i had been more concerned about the possibility of excluding those with varying gender identification, which may not necessarily be about their sex organs, than i was men as a whole. i went ahead and started the room at the request of women who felt it was important to them, although i didn't use it myself much.  with the recent dust-up, i have again been trying to sort out my feelings on this. the timing is difficult for me, and too many distractions to give it the proper attention. i was supposed to be leaving for the west coast, and the RTR today, but must delay for a few days to put a family member to rest.  we have a poll in place for another week. i am hopeful there will be chances for some discussions around the fire, and on here that will help clarify things, for me, anyhow. ive gotten alot of feedback and emails from "the other side" that have given me much to think about over the next 2600 miles.  one thing that sticks close in my mind is that anyone should have the right to say "i want female/male only feedback on this question". i find it disturbing that some men find that completely unacceptable. what is it about a woman saying "no" that is so hard to hear? "no, i don't want to hear from a man on this" ? or "i only want to hear about other women"s experiences on this" ? i am doing some soul-searching to find out if my knee-jerk, "what do you mean i cant say NO?" reaction is fair. i know it wont be a quickly arrived at decision.

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

I don't know why women want their own room, but it is divisive and that is my argument. Solidarity is not achieved when division exists within the group.   This is a welcoming environment, a 'Tribe', so why do we want to break it up into factions?  If there are women's issues that cannot be discussed in public there is always private messages. I can't understand why any gender bias should exist within a group which, as I see it,  is dedicated to the freedom of the individual.  There are enough barriers in society without bringing them here.

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 2, 2013

Women and Men will always have special interests and issues, and I believe if a man wants to discuss man type issues then they should have an area to do so, Some woman may have the answer to a question, if they don't have something of value to add they should stay out of the conversation.  Off the top of my head most issues are of hygiene, and safety. And Men and Women have different ways of dealing with such. Forcing men to post in off topic about "shaving" is not IMO fair when Woman can post about the same issue in a Woman only forum, such a topic (topic is randomly thrown out there as a point) is related to vehicle dwelling...and is not OFF topic.

yesican · Jan 2, 2013

If you were to look down a man's pants and a woman's pants, you would find there is a physical difference.  Included with this physical difference is hormonal differences that produce bodily functions and feelings that cannot be felt or truly understood by the opposite sex.  This is what creates a need for women to discuss things not of interest to men.  It does not mean that we don't want equality of rights!  That is totally different.  We women still have a mind and a need to support ourselves and our families and should have the right to do it the same as men in that respect.      However, the one reason I'd like to see a woman's formum was because of how many men feel about women.  As a post by one of the men on this forum (Katie has now deleted it), it showed how men are OK with degradation of women through displaying inappropriate sex acts.  Not one man on this forum spoke up against that display.  I'd like at least one part of this site where I know I can go where I know a man is not going to show testosterone control over women! I know there are decent men on this site, but there are some who don't respect women.  I'd like one part where I don't have to worry about that. Rae

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

If this forum desires segregation then I will not interfere.  I rue the day it happens though.

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 2, 2013

Rae, look at what the women have done here! we have placed a line in the sand that does not belong and I am now going to withdraw my vote to keep the woman's forum, because it's JUST NOT FAIR! period case closed! so please when you read the vote please -1 for the keep vote.... I am strong willed , I am not put off by a man's knowledge over women's topics... I don't mind a mans offering advice if it is tastefully given, and I will not back peddle and start wanting a gender bias room that doesn't allow EVERYBODY to voice their knowledge, and notice I didn't say opinion! To me this forum has sadly become a non friendly to male forum... on many topics. I have told a mod so. I feel this forum sadly degraded after a recent issue involving me and two other members. I was assured that this issue has popped up before me... but I apologize to all the men on this forum, I don't believe you are all out to take advantage of the female gender!

mockturtle · Jan 2, 2013

dfunkt said:
If this forum desires segregation then I will not interfere.  I rue the day it happens though.

A sub-forum related to women's issues hardly constitutes segregation.

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 2, 2013

A sub-forum related to women's issues hardly constitutes segregation. It does if men are not allowed to post, it is saying that what they have to offer no matter the value is not welcome. Geez, I remember my grandmother feeling the same way...

Bodhi · Jan 2, 2013

Wow!  I thought I might be a problem within these genderbased rooms... as I am female with MUCH in common with both groups but am usually more comfortable with the guys forums... I guess...  I have never visited the Girls Rooms... hmmm...  Honestly, I can't imagine that ANY of the guys would want to offer information, advise or chit-chat regarding "heavy nights and dealing with the following mornings" or the like.  I don't even want to address it!  Or, urination without arrest for butt flashing on the side of the road... although... some of the guys might have ideas for screen building for quick deployment. This is (for the most part) the most kind and mature group of people I have ever encountered on line and I truly believe that if all threads are left OPEN to ALL  the kindness and maturity and intellegence of everyone here will self-determine who spends time where and when it is appropriate it to respond by whom. Private Messages are a good way to adress highly sensitve and embarrassing issues... although... again... the kindness and maturity makes most things not embarrassing and the caring makes sensitive issues less painful. Much LOVE to all...  Bodhi PS.  Yesican, I have never seen degrading posts (I don't think I have) but if I did I would hope that it would be addressed promptly (as it seems to have been)  Anyway, just my input here.  Because, I really like this group.

Sunny1 · Jan 2, 2013

Just because men and women are equal does not mean they think alike.  Women have different ways of building (usually with lighter materials -- a 125 woman does not need a bed that would support a 250 pound man), and different ways of working out systems that work for them. I have seen one woman ask for info on how to build out her van.  Another woman described a system that worked well for her -- and the men jumped in to belittle the way she did it and insist that the other woman needed a complicated system that obviously confused and overwhelmed her.  I haven't seen many posts from either woman again. Most of the discussions are enriched by input from everyone.  But occasionally there are times when a man might want only masculine input and women might want only women's input. I can't imagine why anyone would feel threatened by that.

Suanne · Jan 2, 2013

dfunkt said:
I thought gender equality was fought for and won by the women of North America.

Oh, how I wish that were true.  If you take a look at wages earned for the same job, and percentages of men and women in positions of power, you will know that gender equality still has a long ways to go.

Guest · Jan 2, 2013

I was going to remain silent after having had my say and let the group decide, but there is one last argument I'd like to state. I realise it may seem innocuous, to the people who are in favour of a special place to discuss their special needs, to create a sub-forum in which men are forbidden to post.  Such a place, in fact, may be a very real need.  My suggestion then is to start a new forum for mobile Women.  There you may publicly discuss anything you like with the surety that no males will commandeer the discussion or act in an undignified manner.  But this forum and all of it's sub-forums are publicly accessible and available to all members.  If we were gathered together in person, sitting in a circle, it would be intolerable to have a discussion where all available were not able to comment.  In such a scenario, some people may split off for private discussion, but it would no longer be in the group.  Since Cheaprvliving has no way to keep all members from reading the discussions which take place in all forums, there should be no silencing of opinions in any forum. I hope that makes sense. Let cool heads prevail and let us check our tempers at the door.  I did not mean to inflame anyone with my objections; I just need to fight discrimination everywhere I see it.

Gender-based rooms

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