Former fleet owned 2015/16 Ram Promaster City models

[deryk_the_gypsy]

Hello Folks,

I am wondering about the former fleet owned models I see for sale.  Most have 80k to 100k on them around 10-12k for sale.  I wouldn't be living in it, more daily driver and weekend travels type use.  I have read high highway miles are better than high city miles, but being this is a newer vehicle line not sure how they will hold up over time.

Any thoughts?

thanks

deryk

 

[JD GUMBEE]

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=34728

If you're going to buy one, buy new.

There is a reason why they are being auctioned so early.

 

[maki2]

fleet vehicles do get traded in after only a couple of years. Much of that has to do with the tax incentives for buying new vehicles that are given by the federal government. Goes back to when the automotive industry was in crisis. It is not always because they are useless, it just gives corporations a tax break at the end of the year to let go of the old and get something new.

 

[deryk_the_gypsy]

Wow JD, But I see the point, abuse them and toss them before the warranty is up. Sadly buying new at this point isn't an option.... but who knows what the future holds

 

[JD GUMBEE]

fleet vehicles do get traded in after only a couple of years. Much of that has to do with the tax incentives for buying new vehicles that are given by the federal government. Goes back to when the automotive industry was in crisis. It is not always because they are useless, it just gives corporations a tax break at the end of the year to let go of the old and get something new.

The finance guys I work with are well aware of the incentives. For some reason, they choose to get the most reliable service possible, for as long as is feasible, rather than dump 4 and 5 year old iron.
Maybe they don't know what they are doing?

While technically what you say is true, it is rare. In every one of those "dump em young" situations...the bean counters dictate doing as little as possible to the units. (The exact kind of used vehicle you do NOT want to buy.)
You will normally find these vehicles poorly maintained headaches for the future buyers.
(No matter if it is a Fiat Ducato, Ford F series, GM gasser van...or a Cummins diesel dually. Young-dumped fleet units make BAD purchases...nearly every single time.)

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I don’t know what the story is today but leases used to be for fixed terms 3 years, or maybe now a days with some of the long warranties it may be as high as 5 years. My guess is that once that term is over they get a new vehicle on a new lease. Most of these leases are still on warranty so my guess all service has to be done on time by a certified dealer in order to keep the warranty valid so I think you can get a good deal on some of these and can expect that it would be well maintained.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

My guess is...

Yes, a guess.

None of the vehicles I have ever seen purchased (Ford, GM, Mopar, Toyota, Nissan, Paccar...etc) require maintenance to be done at a dealer to keep warranty. People change their own oil all the time.
People swap their brake pads all the time.
There is nothing to prove if a 32000 mile Nissan had 3,000 mile oil changes, 7500 mile oil changes...or one oil change in its entire 32,000 miles...without records of it. Your idea about having to bring it to the dealership for these is not true. (At least not in the vehicle group we are talking about here.)
One moment of rational thinking tells you on average, a human being will:
1. Not treat a rental or leased vehicle as well as their own.
2. Will skimp and save any way possible in order not to spend money on a rental or lease.

When is the last time you took a rental car in to have it detailed?
Did you bring it in for that noise, or keep driving it with the "if it breaks, they tow me and send a new car to take its place" attitude?
(I have tapped on (several) windows of Ford Explorers seen parked @ a gas pump or grocery store during the great rollover Firestone debacle...and showed people a half flat front tire (the reason for most of the tire failures in the first place IMNSHO) and I was told, "I don't care, it's a company car/rental car." Many times.)
When was the last time you raised the hood to check the oil on a rental or company car?
I know people who would proclaim to their death bed they are different...they would never do such a thing...and they do it too. People usually fail at empathy once-removed.
(Did you give half your income to feed the children last month? Starving babies are more important than skipping an oil change or two or three, right?)

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Yes, a guess.

I am not sure if they require that maintenance be done at a dealership, that is still my guess and that is what I would do if I was the car manufacturer, that can easily be found out however no car manufacturer will warranty an engine if you don’t change the oil and I am sure they have that written in the warranty agreement, I am also sure that all lease companies would also write this in the agreement with the Leasees after all they own the car, fleets don’t want breakdowns either nor do they want to pay for expensive repairs so it would be in the interest of everybody to abide by it and keep records of it. I am also pretty sure that leasees have company policies for drivers to do walk arounds and a check lists in place to ensure that this gets done by drivers in order to cover themselves for liability. And yes if a rental vehicle was making a strange noise I would stop and call it in rather then get stuck in an uncomfortable place or cause an accident and injure myself or others. So no one is removed.  I drive any vehicle in the same cautious manner as if it were my own no matter who owns it and I would think that would be true of most people. Bringing in the starving children card  is completely ridiculous.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

No more ridiculous than posting guesses on a subject one clearly knows little/nothing about and then presenting a circular argument in reply.

 

[jonney38]

I am not sure if they require that maintenance be done at a dealership, that is still my guess and that is what I would do if I was the car manufacturer, that can easily be found out however no car manufacturer will warranty an engine if you don’t change the oil and I am sure they have that written in the warranty agreement, I am also sure that all lease companies would also write this in the agreement with the Leasees after all they own the car, fleets don’t want breakdowns either nor do they want to pay for expensive repairs so it would be in the interest of everybody to abide by it and keep records of it. I am also pretty sure that leasees have company policies for drivers to do walk arounds and a check lists in place to ensure that this gets done by drivers in order to cover themselves for liability. ... Bringing in the starving children card  is completely ridiculous.

I'm with you. The leasing company borrows money from somewhere to buy the vehicles and then leases them to someone else. Each VIN is listed on a loan document. The vehicle is collateral against the loan made to buy it. Documentation of maintaining the vehicles value is required by whoever holds the paper--oil changes, etc. The companies need to get as much for the used vehicles as they can and selling dogs every year will take its toll on profits. Vehicles may be beaten up a little otherwise but there will have been some elementary maintenance. If I were buying one I would assume it would need tires, battery and brakes. 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

"The vehicle is collateral against the loan made to buy it. Documentation of maintaining the vehicles value is required by whoever holds the paper--oil changes, etc."

So the last time you took out a loan for a vehicle were you required to retain all documents and receipts to prove you did routine maintenance?

The companies I am familiar with have lines of credit with a bank (with a better interest rate) that they will use to purchase vehicles if they don't outright purchase them; the vehicle doesn't secure the loan.  Significant $$$ (100% profit) are saved by putting off maintenance as far as possible, especially if you are turning over your vehicles quickly.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

So the last time you took out a loan for a vehicle were you required to retain all documents and receipts to prove you did routine maintenance?

Significant $$$ (100% profit) are saved by putting off maintenance as far as possible, 

If it is a new car, that is covered by the warranty which is an binding agreement between the buyer and the seller both have obligations, the buyers has to maintain it according to specification. There is precious little profit in not maintaining a vehicle and a lot more liability which most companies would not risk. I am sure some do but I doubt that would be the norm. It is false economy to go down that path. If you don’t maintain your vehicle and it causes an accident you are opening yourself to liability, fleet owners wouldn’t risk that, if they don’t keep records of oil changes and use the specified products they void their waranty and are liable for the repairs, fleet owners wouldn’t do this, there is no profit in that. Not maintaining a vehicle is irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[B and C]

My sister-in-law used to lease vehicles because the payments were low at the time and was always rolling over the balance as she dug herself in deeper and deeper. She always goes went the allotted miles.

When it was time to trade it in on another lease, the vehicle was always valued less than what the lease specified the value would be at the end of the lease. The value is determined when the vehicle is turned in. She has never had to produce receipts for maintenance. This is what caused her to carry a balance into the next lease.

When she got to the point of they wouldn't lease her a vehicle because the balance was too high, she had to buy the last vehicle.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Some people have this whole idea in their head about some $14.00 per hour screen clicker-clerk bank employee type who processes titles, asking for oil change slips at the end of the lease, to make sure the maintenance was done correctly.
SMH...Laughable.

Regardless of who "believes" what...the 36 month deals are, on average, treated badly. Even from a fleet. (The ONLY reason you cycle them so fast in a fleet is in order to touch them as little as possible and dump them riiiiight on the verge of needing work. < FACT.)

This can be debated and philosophized to death about its inherent placement in the scale of morality...but it is still fact.
People, on average, do nto give a S^%$ about the next owner.


I hear Feed The Children has started accepting unused oil change vouchers though

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

If it is a new car, that is covered by the warranty which is an binding agreement between the buyer and the seller both have obligations, the buyers has to maintain it according to specification . . .

If you don’t maintain your vehicle and it causes an accident you are opening yourself to liability, fleet owners wouldn’t risk that, if they don’t keep records of oil changes and use the specified products they void their waranty and are liable for the repairs
. . . 

Do you have any examples of someone who was denied warrantee work because of not 'maintaining vehicle (sic) according to specification'?  Nephew's 2017 Chevy 1500 was in to replace worn lifters and cam at 22,000 miles under warrantee, no maintenance records asked for or provided.

We are talking about two different things: you are citing repair of safety defects, I am talking about maintenance that affects the repair risk of a used vehicle.  That is what the OP needs to be wary of.  And all fleet owners try to dump vehicles just before they need expensive repairs.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Fleet owners dump their vehicles when the lease is over, nothing more, no conspiracy, this notion that all ex leases are garbage is nonsense. You sit in some guys car it is clean and smells nice, in others it is a pig pen not hard to know who cares and who doesn’t. You don’t adopt the habits of the fat guy who can’t move with a string of health issues at 60 just like you don;t buy an ex lease that smells, smokes, is ragged and creeks when it moves, It is like buying any vehicle have a close look at it, check the mileage, the last oil change sticker, the wear on the break pedal, the condition of the interior, rust, strange noises, shifting well, smoke, blow by etc. A lot of dealers buy ex leases to resell. Some may need major repairs some have already been done depending on the mileage, certain things have to be done, for safety reasons,brakes tires etc. I bet there are plenty of sorry souls out there that have had their warranty declined on grounds of improper maintenance, I am sure you could google that one and find a lot of resentful owners complaining about a certain car manufacturer or dealer.

 

[IGBT]

Fleet owners dump their vehicles when the lease is over, nothing more, no conspiracy, this notion that all ex leases are garbage is nonsense. You sit in some guys car it is clean and smells nice, in others it is a pig pen not hard to know who cares and who doesn’t.  You don’t adopt the habits of the fat guy who can’t move with a string of health issues at 60 just like you don;t buy an ex lease that smells, smokes, is ragged and creeks when it moves, It is like buying any vehicle have a close look at it, check the mileage, the last oil change sticker, the wear on the break pedal, the condition of the interior, rust, strange noises, shifting well, smoke, blow by etc. A lot of dealers buy ex leases to resell. Some may need major repairs some have already been done depending on the mileage, certain things have to be done, for safety reasons,brakes tires etc. I bet there are plenty of sorry souls out there that have had their warranty declined on grounds of improper maintenance, I am sure you could google that one and find a lot of resentful owners complaining about a certain car manufacturer or dealer.

The only warranty problem I have had denied is when mice at some of my 2017 Ford F150's Tofu flavored bio degradable wire harness insulation.

 

[Weight]

I'm with F kurbmaster on this. And yes, my brother had his Ford engine warranty denied for failing to document oil changes over 2 years. The only thing they would honor was emissions repair.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

We are talking about two different things: you are citing repair of safety defects, I am talking about maintenance that affects the repair risk of a used vehicle.  

...and if you pin this point down, it will change in the next post.

Folks may also be confusing extended guarantees with manufacturers bumper to bumper.
Those aftermarket insurance companies that sell the extended "product" are often crooks who try to get out of paying on any technicality possible. Not the same situation.

I am very happy FK has made me realize people always do the right thing on a car they intend to turn in soon.
Just by moral code, they spend the money on that overdue oil change to make sure the car/truck is in great shape for the next owner...or when the brakes make an intermittent noise, instead of praying it does not show itself during the unit return, they go forward and spend the money to make sure the next buyer does not take the hit. Pure logical thinking there.
Thanks FK. You have changed my mental image of average human beings behavior. I am unnecessarily cynical. People do not try to cheat systems or avoid expenses. (...and you explained how fleets work as well. A double bonus. Thanks again.)

10-4 good buddies.