Eradicating aging as a cause of death

[Wabbit]

...Men are fools. I pretty much consider the human race as nothing more than a source of entertainment which has no intrinsic value - no purpose - beyond self propagation and its ability to destroy...

Aren't you just a 5 gallon bucket of sunshine! However, just because you state something, doesn't make it true. Even when it's stated with such superiority.

 

[Seraphim]

Aren't you just a 5 gallon bucket of sunshine! However, just because you state something, doesn't make it true. Even when it's stated with such superiority.

It's all my opinion - no more valid or no less valid than any other.

I'm willing to listen to opinions to the contrary. That's called discussion.

 

[Seraphim]

sorry for the double post...

 

[Seraphim]

Superior? Nah. I'm no better nor any worse than most, I suspect. I do argue my opinions with conviction, however. If I don't, who will? *grin*

 

[K1ngN0thing]

Well your views on humanity say a lot. Of course if you view us as nothing more than destructive parasites you're in favor of mortality, but we're not talking about immortality here, simply the removal of one major cause of death. Everything we do medically is to prolong life, and this is no different. As for the sun, it's going to be billions of years before that point. By then we'll be living on spaceships. Again, you assume everything else will stay the same while only this technology advances. I couldn't care less if you personally don't want to live forever. There's no right or wrong answer for that. I do maintain, however, that it is overwhelmingly a positive for humanity to have the option to stop its biological clock. I'd also argue that because I'm younger, I'm more open to the idea because I have a better chance of benefiting from it. That said, a part of me knows that I very likely might not. Even so, I still want it to come to fruition.

 

[akrvbob]

Some of you are taking this much too seriously, it's just a friendly discussion of "what-if?" Lighten up!
Bob

 

[Seraphim]

Couldn't get any lighter lol.

But, King, if you don't care if I want to live forever - or indefinitely, if you wish - why did you ask?

I doubt humanity will ever get to the 'living in spaceships' scenario. That requires cooperation, personal sacrifice on the part of people in general, dedicated resources (which means taking those resources from other areas) and time - I do not assume everything stays the same. I believe humanity will not survive that long. And if some of humanity still exists, they will not have the resources to build generation ships, which is effectively what you are suggesting. It's been over 50 years since we landed on the moon. The US 'won' the competition. Then people lost interest. No one wants to give up resources serving them, to dedicate to space. Back to my self serving argument.

I sincerely hope entrepreneurs like Elon Musk take up the slack. But they can't do it alone, with only their private assets as funding. Public assets are being dedicated to other purposes, and no sector private , public or commercial, wants to give up their portion of the pie for space technology. Entrepreneurs are fighting a losing battle. They still have to make profits and pay shareholders.

But - as I said - my opinions. Doesn't change my basic answer to your question.

 

[Seraphim]

And I never claimed to be in favor of mortality - the rest of the world can decide as they wish. There will just be a time when I'm done, having done all I wish as many times as I wish. Then I'll be ready to quit.

 

[Seraphim]

You seem to have a difficult time accepting someone would feel that way.

 

[K1ngN0thing]

Personally, I don't see human kind ever having much presence in space, especially as a fix for overpopulation. Where would we go? Pretty much limited to Mars or some moons of Jupiter unless we figure out a way to outrun light and a green/super efficient method of attaining escape velocity. Heck, we (the US) haven't had the ability to put a man in even low earth orbit for years and it looks like it will be that way for at least six years to come (best case, subject to delays). Don't forget, "Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids".

Go to this site to find out when you can see the International Space Station pass overhead in your area. Pretty cool if you've never seen it.
http://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/#.VOfY-C7Zx-w

Guy

I think it's inevitable we'll expand into the universe. There are already people today that have signed up to die on Mars, and training programs are already in action. I think Elon Musk has re-invigorated society's interest in space and as this is a recent development, it'll be some time before the majority of people see it as a goal worth pursuing. I'm not sure what you mean when you say we need to figure out a way to outrun light?

You seem to have a difficult time accepting someone would feel that way.

Not at all. I just thought you were using that as an argument against it for humanity as a whole. I maintain that there is no rational argument against developing these technologies.

 

[LeeRevell]

We Humans will go into space when, and only when, the mega-corporations realize there is profit to be made there. Same as when Europe colonized the Americas. That was for purely profitable gain, funded by the industry of the time.
Let's just hope we don't blow or sicken ourselves into oblivion before we make it.
Who knows? Maybe in the future there will be folks "Space Vanning" and boondocking in the asteroid belt.....

 

[K1ngN0thing]

We Humans will go into space when, and only when, the mega-corporations realize there is profit to be made there.  Same as when Europe colonized the Americas.  That was for purely profitable gain, funded by the industry of the time.
Let's just hope we don't blow or sicken ourselves into oblivion before we make it.
Who knows?  Maybe in the future there will be folks "Space Vanning" and boondocking in the asteroid belt.....  

That may be sooner than we think too. There are asteroids with minerals scarce on earth that are worth billions, and we've recently landed a craft on one (though I don't know if we know the composition of this particular one.) The idea is to trap them in the moon's orbit and mine them from there. Exciting stuff!

 

[Seraphim]

Stephen Hawking has commented on the life span of humanity n earth, and has opined the maximum remaining time Horizon on earth is 1000 years. He suggested space colonization as the only hope of humanity's continued existence, but has also stated biological humans will be unable to do the colonization, but colonization must rely on machines which locate and seed planets with the basic material of human life. If so, will the life that that develops still be considered 'human', since it will develop under a radically different set of circumstances?

Other renown scientists have, for various reasons, suggested limits as low as a hundred years.

 

[Seraphim]

If we are required to calibrate extinction in numerical terms, I would be sure to include the number of people in future generations who would not be born.... (By one calculation), the stakes are one million times greater for extinction than for the more modest nuclear wars that kill "only" hundreds of millions of people. There are many other possible measures of the potential loss—including culture and science, the evolutionary history of the planet, and the significance of the lives of all of our ancestors who contributed to the future of their descendants. Extinction is the undoing of the human enterprise

- Carl Sagan

 

[Seraphim]

One last citation:


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risks

 

[K1ngN0thing]

Ah, I see. I was thinking we'd live in space colonies and on mars in our system for the time being until we develop sufficient technology to live outside of a solar system. Luckily we have billions of years to perfect FTL travel if at all possible. One theory floating around involves a sort of football shaped craft, which would sort of pull itself along space, instead of travelling through it. I don't fully understand it, but it just shows that we're already working on these far-off problems.

 

[Seraphim]

"Luckily we have billions of years to perfect FTL travel if at all possible."

You assume mankind doesn't kill himself off, or will survive all the way until the sun actually dies, or even until it gets so warm it causes global drought. Research global extinction, and what the the environmental scientists are saying. Not one scientist I've read believes we have anywhere near that much time.

 

[Seraphim]

Sustainability problems:


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainability#Peace.2C_security.2C_social_justice

 

[K1ngN0thing]

Well, yeah. Assuming everything else goes right, the sun will still kill us in billions of years, which is why I said we had billions of years to figure it out. Again, you're outlook for humanity comes off as extremely pessimistic. If you're not hopeful then what's the point?

In about 5 billions years the sun will expand into a red giant, at which point the earth will be engulfed. Nothing it does before then is going to cause global drought. What does cause the earth to warm is the greenhouse effect, which developing technologies and better decisions from humanity as a whole will work to take care of. It's likely we'll probably do more damage than is necessary before everyone realizes the severity of the problem though.

You bring up sustainability as if overpopulation is a guarantee. We've still not hit the maximum number of people the earth can support with our current food production and technology. There are already people today who opt out of child-rearing in response to fears of overpopulation. The severity of this issue is blown out of proportion. If it comes down to it, all it would take is a law to limit the number of children per family, either in a lifetime or per century. Maybe to even match the death count. These are simple mathematical problems.

 

[LeeRevell]

We Earthlings may well have our "Zephraim Cochrane" moment in some years, and find "warp drive" a reality. Maybe not. Maybe we meet some benevolent "Little Gray Men" who gift us the technology so we don't kill ourselves off on our one tiny rock. Who knows? We won't have those billions of years to do it. We will eventually either die off like the dinosaurs, due to catastrophe or changing Earth conditions, or we evolve into something "beyond Human".
If we do discover the mythical "Well of Eternal Life", will it benefit all mankind, or be given only to the rich and powerful? Our historical record on such advances is not good. And should it require a major change in lifestyle, how many would make the change? People are inherently lazy and resist change. "Eternal Life" will never be a commodity to be purchased by way of the EBT card. The poor will still die, as will the Middle Class. Some may see a slight increase in average age. But eradicate "Death" itself, save accident or murder.....? I don't expect to see it.