Embraco compressor Whirlpool fridge

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Oneleggedcowboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
156
Reaction score
3
Location
North Carolina
Always trying to get by, you know silk purse from a sows ear thing. I have seen Dan Foss fridge compressors on here and I can't afford a fridge or freezer with that setup. So I have a 20 ft box with 7 foot additional gooseneck WW stock trailer. Originally sold as a combination cattle etc horse trsiler with a cut gate midway in the 70s. I converted it back in the 90s to a slant with homemade living quarters for weekend camping horse rides. Naturally no 12 volt but all 110 fridge, ac unit, lights and plugins. We camped at organized rides with campground electric or my generator. After having my horse with me and riding out west last year I now want something bigger that a tiny 2 horse trailer and slide in camper. Therefore I am painting and fixing up the big gooseneck for off grid living. Lots more room for 2 people plus saddles,hay, grain, water etc. I just took my 110 fridge out and saw that it is 2.8 cubic feet and .44 of that is freezer. It has a Embraco compressor!  I bough in the 90s,  I figured it was thermoelectric like all the dorm fridges nowadays, it says it draws 1 amp. I know about front door let's all the cold air out. I know that a inverter would have to run all the time. I looked up a small inverter and it doesn't sound bad. Is a Embargo compressor similiar  to Dan Foss?  Can I make this work I can easily have 2 of the 245 watt 24 volt panels on the roof and a MPPT controller. I already own those. I have a inverter that lists as very little draw on its specs. It has a fan but I have never heard it run except a couple times when I am microwaving potatos for several guests.  I like this idea because it has a freezer and I like certain things that are frozen. Mostly meat and veggies so I can stay out a couple weeks in the boonies. I try to avoid canned products since the ingredients are ?????   Thanks a bunch, Bill
 
Pretty hard to say how much it will consume over X amount of time, and if in addition to your other (unknown) loads your solar will be enough.


You ould get a p3 Kill a watt meter and figure out how much it and your other devices draw, and them manage battery capacity to try and prevent them from going under 50% when the sun shine is more sparce.
 
Thanks Sternwake. Do you reckon the Embraco is like the Dan Foss and is super efficient. Other than the 110 volt business.

Yes you are right I need a Kilowatt meter. I have put it off long enough!
 
I've no idea about the embraco compressor's efficiency, or lack there of.

Generally products made for running off the grid are not trying to eeek out every possible saved watt, as that would increase their initial price, lower their sales, and not allow the people up top to sign their own executive bonus checks
 
with 1 amp draw it definitely is not like a swing compressor. 1A is typical of dorm fridges. A danfoss style would be like .1-.6 @ 120v.

it all depends on it's duty cycle. if it cycling at 50% = 120A a day
 
There's a member on the cheap rv living website that did some 
kind of mod , If I remember correctly they have the invertor setup to
cycle on and off using relays to power a 110 volt fridge.
I can't recall who the member is or exactly how he wired it up but I
do remember it was a pretty trick mod .
 
The Danfoss BD35f rpm and amp draw can be manipulated.


2000 to 3500 is the rpm range

The amp draw lessens as the compressor runs.  Mine, at 200 rpm, starts at about 2.7 amps and tapers to about 2.2 ~ 5 minutes later when it cycles off.
At 3500 rpm they draw about 6.5 amps IIRC.

The RPM can be manipulated by resistors in the thermostat circuit.

the chest style freezers with Danfoss, usually have some electronic control which control compressor speed
 Mine came with a fixed 270 ohm resistor to speed up rpm to 2500.

It is said the slowest rpm which maintains a sub 50% duty cycle is most efficient.

I found my duty cycle was about 15% at 2500 rpm. I removed resistor and duty cycle increased to about 20% at whatever ambinet temperature I tested it at in October 2012.

My Vitrifrigo c51is  has extra insulation,  and the Condenser/compressor/ compressor controller are well ventilated with no chance of recycling air it has already heated. The condenser fan is aftermarket( Noctua NF-f12) improved and relocated to push air instead of pull for better effiiciency and efficacy.

Improvements can be achieved in the door seals and insulation, and when I get some cash flow going will attend to these upgrades.  Not because it uses too much battery, but because it can use even less if the door were better insulated, and the compressor should last longer the less it has to run.

I am not sure how an inverter can be triggered to turn on when the fridge thermostat wants to fire up the compressor.  i assume some electricity is required for the thermostat.  
Not saying it cannot be done, only that i do not know how to do it.

My inverters have significant stand by draws.  my 800 wat inverter is 0.68 amps turned on powering nothing, my 400 watt PSW inverter is 0.26 amps.

0.68 amps per hour is more than my fridge consumes 80% of the time in actual use, so I see running an inverter 24/7 just for a fridge to be extra wasteful.  I'd need twice the battery and solar to pull it off.  I have room for the battery, but not the solar.

Factor the price of extra solar and battery and inverter into a dorm fridge.  It seems some choose this route to save money only to find it required more expenditure to work properly, than a danfoss powered fridge would have cost.

But one can always throw down for a 12v compressor fridge later, and then savor their electrical surplus.
 
Ahh_me. That is a grest link thanks for posting it. 

Jimidenver  what is a self activating inverter?  I tried several different terms on ebay and amazon to find them to look at but no luck. Anybody know the search term?
 
I don't have experience in powering refrigeration systems off grid, so the following is based only on "theoretical" considerations and some research. I like the alternative of using DC compressor units, and I like the Engel products in particular. However, the problems I see include (1) they are expensive, and (2) they have low capacity. By contrast, a conventional 5 c.f. chest freezer is inexpensive and readily available. Yeah, the inverter is an added expense. However, an inverter can be used for other applications. Most important (to me), the chest freezer can store several months worth of meat products for a single person (and I am a carnivore). Hence, one can take advantage of sales and travel less frequently to restock provisions (both leading to lower costs in the long run).

The single greatest factor that affects the energy consumption of a compressor is the rate of heat transfer across the enclosure. Hence, all else equal, insulation is most important to minimize energy consumption. Also, all else equal, the 12 volt compressor will be more efficient by avoiding inverter losses. Realizing these facts can help one to consider another design.

What I considered is super insulating a conventional 5 c.f. chest freezer by essentially placing it in an insulated enclosure. While the compressor is operating, a fan admits outside air through the enclosure to cool the condenser. The thermostat on the freezer is set to the lowest setting and a timer is used to energize the inverter only during the day when solar panels are likely to be producing. Benefits include (1) lower overall energy consumption primarily due to augmented insulation, (2) lower inverter losses due to inverter operating only during the day, and (3) less stress on the inverter that would likely cycle only once per day (or certainly fewer cycles than otherwise), and possibly allow for using a smaller inverter. The idea here is the inverter would would be cool in the morning when first starting thereby able to meet its full rating. The inverter would be more likely to last under these conditions (as opposed to continual intermittent high amperage starting cycles). Also, the differential pressure across the compressor is low when starting after a lengthy shut down overnight, and this can also help inverter performance long term. The desirable condition is for the inverter to start once per day and reduce internal temperature as low as possible, then deenergize the inverter until the next cycle during the following day.

Yeah, lot's of unknowns and there are always devils in the details. However, the underlying premises are sound. I think it's worth a bit of tinkering to get right.

NOTE: Similar benefits could be seen with a conventional fridge/freezer unit.
 
no one has mentioned this but isn't a 1 amp load at 110v a 8 amp load at 12v? highdesertranger
 
My questions is with the higher load does it run less overall vs a 12v? It might. Need to see real tests.
 
Most every product sold can have some spit and polish added to increase efficiency and/or efficacy.  The designers put everything on a profit vs marketability chart and ultimately go with what will yield them the most profit, even if the choice yeilds  .001 cents per product  more profit, yet has a 2% loss of efficiency.


Every fridge out there can benefit from better door/lid seals, more insulation, and a condenser which can more easily release the heat it has removed from the box, to the atmosphere.

It seems a downright shame that so many fridge installs give little thought to this heat removal.  I was able to reduce the comnsumption of a friend's household full size fridge by over 25% by modifying the cabinet into which it was installed so that the heat produced could simply escape easier.

now I spent several hours modifying the cabinet, and it will take years to make up in electricity costs what they paid me for modifying this cabinet, so it is certainly arguable that it was not worth the effort consumed




None of this really matters when one relies on the magical power grid at 17 cents per KWH consumed, they only seem to become considerations when moving away from that, to battery power and how to replenish those batteries and make them last an acceptable amount of time.  It comes to generating more power, or using less of it.  With the prices of solar now, it seems easier to simply produce more, but using less is wiser, it just takes more thought and effort to achieve, and requires one not just rely on the factory having made the product as best as possible for the application.

The condenser can be passive or forced air over the fins.  The fan which came on my VF is rated at .25 amps, actual consumption 0.12 amps once spinning.

It was mounted to pull air through the condenser whose fins are as closely spaced as a car radiator.  Anybody familiar with computer fans and has played with them while running, will find that when one presents a restriction behind the fan, it gets louder, and moves much less air, much more so than presenting the restriction in front of the fan.  So Why Did VF and most every other employer of the danfoss compressor mount the fan in this orientation where it is louder and less effective?

Because it is good enough.

The fan VF provided is rated at 72 CFM, has a sleeve bearing and consumes 0.12 amps.

I replaced it with the Noctua NF-f12, rated at 53cfm and 0.05 amps, and mounted it to push air through the restriction, as this is how it was designed, for high static pressure and low noise and electrical consumption.  I had been taking duty cycle measurements and amperage measurements at the time I swapped out the fan, and the Duty cycle went from near 6 minutes to under 5, simply by using this 25$ fan instead of the cheapest fan that VF found at the time they assembled the fridge.  
I was rather stunned that the effect was so dramatic, and the fan was quieter, and it consumed less than half the electricity of the provided fan.  I kept taking measurements for 24 hours figuring the seemingly huge increase in efficiency was influenced by other variables, and it did settle into the 20 to 30 second shorter run times, rather than the 75 to 80 seconds I initially observed.  Still, an impressive gain simply be changing the location of the fan.

Regarding insulation, I had temporarily added 3/4 inches of foil backed foamboard insulation to the sides of my fridge while I modified the cabinet to accept the slightly different dimensions of the newer fridge.  I took my IR gun, found the outside of this foamboard insulation to be 80F, and pulling it off and shooting the sides of the fridge I found it at 63f. 

Nothing quite like actual data.  

It seems the household fridges/ freezers, can have even more spit and polish added for even larger improvements in performance, but there is that pesky inverter required, and its inherent inefficiencies.

can they be negated?

My upright front loader fridge, whose ergonomics i much prefer in my Van, well the door seals are not impressive, nor the design.  The metal skin of the exterior of the box is exposed to the interior of the fridge, basically expoosing the coldest air to a surface shared with outside ambient temperatures.  This seems rather asinine, yet the fridge consumption is extremely low, considering.  But I believe there are huge gains to be had with a secondary seal preventing the coldest air being in contact with metal which goes under the door seal.

Why did they design it this way? Because it lent itself to production, was easy, and is simply good enough.

What kind of efficiencies can be gained in the dorm fridge on an inverter, well the same as above, but there is the inverter itself at 85% efficiency at best, and who knows what else could have been streamlined in the compressor controller electronics to eek out more efficeincy.  Add to this the Standby draw of the inverter when the compressor is not running, and the effort/ electronics required to negate that succesfully.

Of course it can be done, and the prices of 12vdc compressor fridges do seem ridiculously high.

Adding  foamboard insulation is so simple.  Look into Nashua Flexfix tape.  Some toothpicks or bamboo skewer can hold the boards in place while the corners are taped

Increasing heat removal from condenser can also yield vast improvements.  This can be done with more efficient fans, or simply assisting natural convection, or by not restricting it by not giving any thought into the fact that the heat generated needs to go elsewhere.


Those with chest style 12v compressor fridges would do well to cut off the ciggy plug and wire fridge to fuse block with thicker wire, as the ciggy plug is doomed to fail and it turning battery powert to heat.

Also it seems that many will build enclosures to assist the ergonomics of a chest style fridge in a small space like a van, but give little though to the fact that they have obstructed airflow to the condenser and compressor.
 
Volts times amps equals watts


1000 watts at 120 volts is 8.34 amps
1000 watts at 12 volts is 83.34 amps

AC or DC

The danfoss compressor controller is designed to power 12v fans.  It can power upto 0.5 amps of fans which come on with the compressor.  So In theory, it could power 10 of the Noctua NF-f12 fans.

I have no idea if your Embraco'c condenser even uses a fan, it could have a passive condenser, and if it does utulize a fan, it is likely not 12v.

However one can simply run a fan on 12v, but it will not be switched on and off with the compressor.

My electrical cabinet has a 80Mm fan that is on 24/7, and in certain orientations it will assist the fridge's 120Mm fan. I can exhaust my fridge into adjacent portion of cabinet or to exterior of vehicle.

 I have also installed a 40MM 12v 0.03 amp fan inside the fridge box that runs 24/7.

This evens out temperatures in the box nicely, and allows a lower thermostat setting, but it does not reduce overall electrical consumption.  The fan itself presents a small heat load that then must be extracted, and it consumes 0.03 amps per hour.

The fan does allow the faster heat extraction of warm items placed within, so If I place something warm inside, when I have a solar surplus in the afternoon, it can better take advantage of that solar surplus to cool the item faster, and then use less battery after sundown.

But generally I don't worry about its consumption, as it  is minimal anyway, compared to this laptop. 

The door seals and the door insulation do bother me, as they could be so much better.
 
I need to sleep on this, my brain is having trouble getting a grip on all this info.

I think I might just hook it up in the slide in camper and see if it gets along all right???
 
Top