Eco flow river

[XERTYX]

I have to disagree about them running a compressor fridge. Plenty of people do. But with 12v compressor fridges. But most of those people are "glamping" the fridge keeps their cliff bars and powerade cold while they're trail running for the day. Then they go home to their 3 story S&B house. They aren't worried about their weeks budget of groceries spoiling cuz their power station didnt meet their expectations.

 

[Scott3569]

@XERTYX (I tried to quote the end of you previous answer) haven't figured that out yet

This was my thought, because I may not get the fridge right away, So I really only need to power my cell phone, some led lights (have not Purchased any yet, But I plan to purchase some USB powered LED lights)..charging batteries for a ryobi

And the 4 computer case fans @1AH each so 4 AH total(obviously they may not run constantly.. But I want to at least plan for it)

And like I said, I was thinking about the C20 fridge, But now I am considering a smaller one, using it to freeze blocks of ice for a cooler(which will probably take more power consumption)
I have not committed either way as of this point. to the fridge situation..

So my only needs are what I have stated above.. I have a laptop.. but that will only be used when I have wifi available and most likely be inside someplace..

the only add ons that I could see in the future would be a fridge depending on what I decide.. possibly a couple usb fans.. But really that is it..

So my power consumption is going to be quite close to what you are doing, and I just want to plan for a just incase situation.. ..

Maybe I have not explained my self well enough in my previous posts, But I am quite sure I have mentioned many of these things several times..

Not really letting it get under my skin, But I don't believe some people are actually reading.. so are just commenting just to comment..

in the end it's all good, life is full of daily lessons, I try to learn something each day..

 

[Scott3569]

Nothing wrong with lead acid batteries.  They can still be very economical in terms of $$ per cycle.  You just have to know how to design a system around them.

I would stay away from those cheap, small portable power stations.  The reasons are you can never scale up from there as they are a closed system and they have severe limitations in terms of surge capabilities.  For example, if you want to run a small refrigerator with a compressor or some other inductive load with a high transient surge then those 300-400W portable power stations don't stand a chance.  Heck, my Bluetti EB150 that cost $1200 (at the time) and is supposed to be able to handle 1000W peak can't start a small window unit air conditioner.

If all you ever want to do is run some lights and fans and recharge a laptop and mobile phones then go for it.  But if you want to run anything bigger than that, I would piece together a solar panel system with individual components for your needs.  Give us a budget and we can help.

You have misread what i am saying, I never said I want to run a compressor fridge off of a small portable generator, my thought for the small generator was to just give me a start. Powering 4 1Ah computer case fans, led lights, and charging my cell phone.. Never have I mentioned that I want to power a compressor fridge from a small generator.. 
But in the future I would think I could add a lead deep cycle battery charge both the lead battery and the generator from the 170w solar panel.. I would think it might even be possible to add 2 100wh deep cycle batteries..

 

[XERTYX]

Umm. Ok. First things first. I know you've said the computer fans are for ventilation from the rear where the heater was.

Can you post the fans you're using? You said 1Ah each. Btw Ah is amps X time. I.E. 1A X 1H (60m)= 1 Ah.
1A X 0.5H (30m) = 0.5Ah

12 watts per fan X 4 fans will add up quick. 12v X 1A = 12w. 12w X4 =48w 48w X 10H = 480Wh!

I just wanna double check the wattage of those fans. Those sound like 5VDC computer fans and not 12vDC fans. Desktop PCs have different voltages depending on the fan. CPU fans are often 5v case fans are often 12v.

 

[Scott3569]

yeah I will post a photo of them, maybe they were not the best choice, But I know they run well when I connect them to the battery..

 

[XERTYX]

Hey you got the quotes working! That took me forever to figure out. Every forum is a lil different.

If you bought them online post a link if you can.

I'll tell you what I can do with my 200w solar and 1 27DC battery to give you an idea.

I have the fridge. 210-300ish Wh daily. (Probably closer to 180Wh when the sun is down.

My battery is stamped 109Ah to keep the math simple i assume i have 100ah X 12v. 1200wh 50% usable 600wh. In reality it's more like 109Ah X 12.9 = 1406wh. I under estimate on purpose.

So 600wh budget from sun down til sunup. -200wh for fridge 400wh I have a bright as HELL 12v LED 7w bulb. 10 hours X 7w =70wh. 400wh- 70wh = 330wh

I just bought a 19 inch LED TV from a pawn shop(its 12v with an AC wall adapter) . $20. Its marked 36w. But as it came from a pawn shop the AC adapter they sold it with is not the original. 12v 1.5A. 18 watts. It runs fine on this adapter. But when I wire it in to the 12v directly maybe it will pull 36w. I doubt it. But 36w X 10H = 360Wh. 330Wh - 360wh = ‐30wh

So the TV will not fit into the equation if I run the LED bulb for 10 hours. Or vice versa. When YOU are Mr. Burns and own the power plant you have to schedule your Wh just like money. Except there IS NO line of credit. You never go over budget.

 

[ldsreliance]

You have misread what i am saying, I never said I want to run a compressor fridge off of a small portable generator, my thought for the small generator was to just give me a start. Powering 4 1Ah computer case fans, led lights, and charging my cell phone.. Never have I mentioned that I want to power a compressor fridge from a small generator.. 
But in the future I would think I could add a lead deep cycle battery charge both the lead battery and the generator from the 170w solar panel.. I would think it might even be possible to add 2 100wh deep cycle batteries..

Sorry, I was just using that as an example.  I know you never mentioned a fridge.  My point was just that your needs might change in the future.

You have mentioned a couple of times that you may want to add on to the system in the future.  It would be a lot easier to do that with individual components instead of a portable power station like the Eco Flow River.  But if you are okay with just buying the Eco Flow River and keeping it as its own little portable system and then creating a completely new 2nd system in the future that is probably a good plan.

 

[XERTYX]

But if you are okay with just buying the Eco Flow River and keeping it as its own little portable system and then creating a completely new 2nd system in the future that is probably a good plan.

I agree. This may not be a highly popular idea, but I stand behind it as a viable lower initial cost all in one works every time solution that you can build up with plug n play solar and the solar can stick around for the upgrade. And you then also have a highly portable solar chargeable USB battery bank on steroids.

Relying on it to store your insulin or other life support medication in a fridge?.... I'd recommend the highest WH available at the bare minimum.

These lithium "generators" are nifty as hell. Mainly in my opinion because they usually have a PSW inverter. 

I'd hate to have to use one in a life support capacity... but they're cool. And disposable. Just buy a new one when it breaks. . . But I digress. 

I honestly believe that you can run  12v compressor fridge off of enough USB buck converters. Is a USB fridge better? Only if you can only build it $12 at a time. Otherwise? Never.

If you can spend $200 at a time I'd step up into a solar generator (shore charged) and then solar panels (highest wattage supported) then wiring and charge controller. Then battery. Swap out battery and controller for "generator" Then fridge. Then plug the "generator" into 12v charger on battery. 

Fake it til ya make it.

But you have to set realistic expectations for electricity usage and adhere to them. Or sit in the dark pissed off. Done that. Candles are handy in the beginning.

 

[jacqueg]

Sorry, I was just using that as an example.  I know you never mentioned a fridge.  My point was just that your needs might change in the future.

You have mentioned a couple of times that you may want to add on to the system in the future.  It would be a lot easier to do that with individual components instead of a portable power station like the Eco Flow River.  But if you are okay with just buying the Eco Flow River and keeping it as its own little portable system and then creating a completely new 2nd system in the future that is probably a good plan.

That's basically what I've done. When I started, I wasn't even sure I would ever need solar.

It's when I decided I really did want to run a refrigerator that all the fun began! But laptop and rechargeable lights? No problem. I could charge my 300w RockPals power station from my alternator, or carry it with me and plug it into any place that offered outlets in the wall, like Starbucks or the library. It required thinking ahead, but it was definitely doable.

But I did get that craving for a refrigerator... So now I have a big solar panel on the roof feeding a 100 ah battery for the refrigerator. And still have a portable power station that I charge with a solar suitcase (or my generator) for the laptop and lights. Someday I will have a more integrated system, but right now, this is just fine.

OP, if you are willing to wait until you're in Quartzsite next December or so for the solar panel and battery - when you can get the panel(s) for dirt cheap from SanTan Solar, and there will be lots of folks willing to help you out right there - could you be content to just run your laptop and rechargeable LED lights? Remember, when people started doing this about 30 years ago - no one had to figure this stuff out, and they lived to tell the tale!

 

[Scott3569]

@XERTYX
the fans I have are similar to these I had a friend order them from amazon since I don't have an account. so I don't have them in my shopping cart.. But these a pretty close if not the same..

https://www.amazon.com/Strong-120x1...s=computer+case+fan+4in&qid=1622761262&sr=8-8

@ldsreliance
It's all good, things can get confusing pretty quite..

but I think maybe I am not explaining my thoughts correctly.. when I say I want to add on to the system at a later date. I mean I want to add more power Storage to handle my needs in the future..

This was my thought with the smaller generator.. If the smaller generator could get me by for now.. then when I ad more power storage.. Not only would I have the battery storage but I would also have the small generator..

 

[Scott3569]

Hey you got the quotes working! That took me forever to figure out. Every forum is a lil different.

If you bought them online post a link if you can.

I'll tell you what I can do with my 200w solar and 1 27DC battery to give you an idea.

I have the fridge. 210-300ish Wh daily. (Probably closer to 180Wh when the sun is down.

My battery is stamped 109Ah to keep the math simple i assume i have 100ah X 12v. 1200wh 50% usable 600wh. In reality it's more like 109Ah X 12.9 = 1406wh. I under estimate on purpose.

So 600wh budget from sun down til sunup. -200wh for fridge 400wh I have a bright as HELL 12v LED 7w bulb. 10 hours X 7w =70wh. 400wh- 70wh = 330wh

I just bought a 19 inch LED TV from a pawn shop(its 12v with an AC wall adapter) . $20. Its marked 36w. But as it came from a pawn shop the AC adapter they sold it with is not the original. 12v 1.5A. 18 watts. It runs fine on this adapter. But when I wire it in to the 12v directly maybe it will pull 36w. I doubt it. But 36w X 10H = 360Wh. 330Wh - 360wh = ‐30wh

So the TV will not fit into the equation if I run the LED bulb for 10 hours. Or vice versa. When YOU are Mr. Burns and own the power plant you have to schedule your Wh just like money. Except there IS NO line of credit. You never go over budget.

ok, I will need to come back and look at this a few times.. This gives me a better understand of what is going on.. Thank you for taking the time to write all that out..

 

[XERTYX]

Those fans you linked say they're rated for 0.25A
12v X 0.25A = 3w. 3w X 4 = 12w 12w X 24H = 288wh

They're definitely doable. But they're gonna take a fair amount of juice to run. During the day if you have solar that shouldn't be a big deal. The surplus solar should run it just fine.

At night they'll start to add up.

 

[XERTYX]

Update. I temporarily installed my 12v TV and did some measuring.

Also I may not have been clear when I was giving an example of what I can do with my system.

My battery is lead acid. So you can only use about 50% of its capacity without damage. That's why I assume I have 1200 watt hours and not 1400. A lil extra insurance if I go over a scootch. So half of 1200wh is 600wh.

The TV actually pulls 15-18.7ish watts. It never reached 19 watts when I was testing it with max volume and streaming a movie thru a ROKU SE plugged into the TV itself. So we'll round up and say it pulls 20 watts.

So let's revisit my example of what you can do after the sun goes down.

Budget of 600wh
Fridge -200wh
400wh

7 watt bulb for 10 hours. 7w X 10H = 70wh
400wh -70wh
330wh

TV for 10 hours 20w X 10h = 200wh
330wh-200wh = 130wh

2 5 watt USB fans (I only have 1 ATM) for 10 hours
2 X5w =10w X 10h =100wh
130wh- 100wh =30wh

When the sun comes up I can have ran 2 fans, a household brightness 12v LED bulb, and a TV streaming movies all for 10 hours or turn something off if I want to use the others more and still have a spare 30 watt hours. Also since I took the fridge budget off of the top I had cold beer all throughout that example.

Hope that helps.

 

[Scott3569]

Yes the does help, what was the cost of your battery? I may just forget about the small generator.. Like you said I can get close to the same system you have for about $400 Maybe slightly more because I know I want the 30a dc-dc dual input charger from renergy... 

I am also sending a DM

 

[XERTYX]

The battery I wanted was a 29DC but I had to go with a 27DC cuz wally world sold out of the 29s. Like 80 bucks plus core. Tax and all about a hundred bucks. But buy that piece last if you go this route. You want to be able to hook the system up same day as you recieve the battery IMO.

 

[XERTYX]

Oh also you should see this warning like 90 X before you hook everything up BUT .... connect the battery to the charge controller FIRST. Then connect solar panels.

That's redundant 'cuz it's pretty 'portant.

But the panels need to be ready to plug into the CC the moment the battery has been. And you dont wanna sit on a battery for a while that's not being charged on the reg. So buy it last. My 2 cents there.

Also this might be a useful tool for lead acids in the lower 48.

http://m.battfinder.com/

If you have the budget to do my exact build AND ALSO have the budget to do a lithium battery instead of a lead acid i would thoroughly reccomended it. I'd be doing electric cooking on my system if i had lithium. Only about 200 watt hours a day at most. But lithium would open up a lil flexibility with my build. It just wasn't in the cards when i built it.

 

[Scott3569]

Understood, and yes, I would have everything first then connect it all.. I also saw someplace that you need to connect things in a certain order.. I will certainly pay good attention to that.. 
I considered the wally batteries, then I hear they were crap.. But heck I think for me as long as it will last me a year, that will be fine.. by then I can upgrade. possibly to Lifepo4.. 

I do have the budget for your system, I just want a different charge controler

 

[XERTYX]

I'm biased of course. I also have the 30 dollar upgrade to give my charge controller WIFI. It works for me. The one bit of advise I'd give for CCs is not to go with a $10 one. Or $20 or probably $40.

Some times dollar amounts relate to quality. This is one of those times. $20 french champagne?! Nope. $40 for 10 pounds of filet mignon?! Nope.

Dont cheap out on the CC. Also you dont need the Cadillac of CCs for a small system. You're planning to upgrade. A spare small CC can be handy if you break down somewhere.

If you find yourself in the Arizona desert with a spare 20A charge controller is that a setback? Nope. Spare parts are your friend when you're Mr. Burns. Power plant owner.

 

[bullfrog]

I've noticed lately some lithium battery builders are installing 2 battery management systems so there is a backup in case one fails as extra insurance against damage to the batteries. I guess they are the main failure point lately and can prevent a lot of lawsuits.

 

[NctryBen]

My land is in northern Minnesota. I plan to be there in November for hunting season. It can be quite cold. Sometimes below zero. I understand lithium batteries cannot freeze. If there is that danger, would AGM batteries be the better fit anyways. I’m following this thread for similar concerns and wanted to add that question.