E Bicycle. I want one

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VanKitten

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Anyone have experience with them?   Where do you carry it?  How do you carry it?
How do you charge it?   What do you use it for?

What do you think?  Overall...happy with it?

I do not want to tow a toad.  Geez...the toad would be nearly as big as the rig!
But, also want some easy quick way to do laundry, pick up some groceries, etc.

My criteria is that I have to be able to pick it up...so no motor scooter, etc.
 
Take a look at this:

https://comingsoon-tech.com/urbanx-smart-electric-bike-wheel


You could then get any bike you wanted (as long as the tire was a size they make) and use this wheel instead of the current front wheel.  Instant e-bike!  My brother should be getting his any day.  So to travel with it, you could carry it any way that you would carry a regular bike.  I'd probably just carry the front wheel inside.  The battery is in the wheel so it's very convenient.

My current e-bike is a discontinued sanyo model that only does pedal assist, but it's good enough for me.  I have a bike carrier for it for the back of my suburban, but honestly it's a bit big to carry and heft onto that bike rack.  So I'm looking to downsize and get a lightweight regular bike and use the wheel linked to above.
 
We had a thread on this subject going down in the green sub-forum.

Like a lot of threads here, it went somewhat off the rails.

The gist of my original post there was a warning that electric bikes are not necessarily legal everywhere.  Cops in NYC are actually confiscating them.

The problem is that they fall into a gray area. They have motors.  So are they bicycles or motor vehicles?  If they are motor vehicles, they need license plates and insurance to use them on public streets.
 
Would you consider an adult tricycle? Some can be folded in the middle, and you can get them in electric or with a very small gas motor.

Of course, you still have to be able to haul the thing...do you have room to do that?

I love the idea of surface transport of some kind while RVing...I cant really tolerate it any other way.

So of course I usually have a 2 or 3 wheel motorcycle with me.
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
The problem is that they fall into a gray area. They have motors.  So are they bicycles or motor vehicles?  If they are motor vehicles, they need license plates and insurance to use them on public streets.


Kinda like boats...if you add an electric trolling motor to a kayak, all of the sudden, its a motorboat, and needs to be licensed.

I think electric mobility scooters fall completely off the radar, and there is a disabled lady that I know who rides a 3 wheel electric cart all over the place, on city streets, sidewalks, and inside stores and buildings.

Of course it only goes about 15 mph...so no one is in much danger if she was to run it into something.
 
I have a wheel that came with an electric motor as the hub, a controller that produces the proper sine wave for the brush-less motor and provide speed control. It operates on 36 volts. I have a LiFePo battery pack as an extra. I tooled all over town for the summer, until i wore the tire to thread. It just mounted as the front wheel on a standard 26" bicycle. It works better with hand brakes rather than coaster. It can be used on any 26' bicycle.
 
Be aware of the difference between throttle-controlled versus pedal-assist acceleration...and some bikes have both. Cost a friend $200 to ship his back for refund because he was not happy with a pedal assist algorithm being the only way to make it go...
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
...
They have motors.  So are they bicycles or motor vehicles?  If they are motor vehicles, they need license plates and insurance to use them on public streets.


I want to make a general distinction for clarity's sake: engines are combustion-driven, motors are electrically-driven.

As for laws in the U.S. regarding both combustion- and electrically-driven bicycles, this should clear things up a bit:


United States (combustion-driven)

Federal law

In the United States, federal law governing ICE motorized bicycles is subject to interpretative rulings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) at the United States Department of Transportation. Under current NHTSA rules, a "motor-driven cycle" (a definition that includes a two-wheel vehicle such as a bicycle with an add-on ICE engine of five brake horsepower or less[25]) and a speed capability of more than 20 miles per hour lacks both a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and standard onroad safety equipment such as mirrors, turn signal lamps, side marker lamps, and stop lamps, then the vehicle shall not be considered a "motor vehicle" as defined by DOT/NHTSA regulations, but instead is defined as an off-road vehicle (since the lack of a VIN and on-road equipment indicates that a vehicle was not manufactured primarily for use on public roads.)[25] Such off-road vehicles are considered to be neither motor vehicles nor motorcycles, as those terms are defined under federal law.[25] Under present-day NHTSA rules, the final decision as to whether such federally defined off-road vehicles may be legally operated on public roads is determined by the laws of the state in which the vehicle is being operated.

State and local laws

The legal status of an ICE motorized bicycle in the United States is presently determined by the laws of each state and/or local jurisdiction. Several states allow ICE motorbikes to be operated on roadways without registration, tax, or licensing in the same manner as bicycles, providing certain restrictions are observed.[26] Many state jurisdictions use limits on top speed and/or engine displacement to determine if ICE motorized bicycles require registration and licensing—sometimes as mopeds, sometimes as motorcycles.[27] Some states prohibit the use of motorbikes on multi-use recreational paths or high-speed, limited access roadways, while others require additional safety equipment for operation on public roads, such as wearing a helmet.[28] Many United States cities and other local jurisdictions may impose additional restrictions upon ICE motorized bicycles when operated on public streets and roadways.


United States (electrically-driven)

In the United States, federal law exempts low-speed electric bicycles from Dept. of Transportation and NHTSA motor vehicle regulations, and they are regulated under federal law in the same manner as ordinary bicycles.[36] The Consumer Product Safety Act defines the term low speed electric bicycle as a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 horsepower), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph (15 U.S.C. 2085(b)).[36] At the present time, neither the DOT nor the NHTSA restrict the assembly of e-bikes for use on public roads, although commercially manufactured e-bikes capable of speeds greater than 20 mph are considered motor vehicles and thus subject to DOT and NHTSA safety requirements. Consequently, the laws of the individual state and/or local jurisdiction govern the type, motor wattage, and speed capability of e-bikes used on public roadways (see Electric bicycle laws). As long as the bicycle is capable of pedal propulsion, most U.S. states currently do not distinguish between designs that may be self-propelled by the electric motor versus pedal assist designs in which the electric motor assists pedal propulsion by the rider.
 
so an outboard motor is electric? Motor Trend magazine only deals with electric motors? motorcycles have electric motors? motor oil is for electric motors? I could go on and on just saying. highdesertranger
 
What part of "general distinction" is giving you fellas trouble? :)

Federal statutes distinguish between ICE (internal combustion engines) 'motors' and electrically driven (actual) motors in determining whether a vehicle falls within the legal scope of the descriptor "motor vehicle." Since there was just a row about the literal vs. general use of the term "wilderness", I figured it'd be wise to head-off any future squabbles around such ambiguity of intention and mention the general distinction between motors and engines.

If you've got nothing better to do than heckle someone for contributing relevant facts to a conversation, and making a good faith effort to be clear in light of a similar, recent misunderstanding, then maybe that says more about you than it does about the person being heckled.
 
imagine touring the country on like an e-trike with comfy seat, lightweight fairings and a solar panel roof pulling a little aluminum trailer with lithiums, tiny gas generator, solar roof, and your camping gear.
 
Richard said:
What part of "general distinction" is giving you fellas trouble? :)

...

If you've got nothing better to do than heckle someone for contributing relevant facts to a conversation, and making a good faith effort to be clear in light of a similar, recent misunderstanding, then maybe that says more about you than it does about the person being heckled.

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I didn't see anything that you said that would be objectionable, though in actual application, it seems the distinction between engine and motor is rarely adhered to. And I don't see John/OP's point and yours as being contradictory. 

I think you, Richard, deserve some kind of research/reference award within this forum. I think John deserves an award for so many things summed up very succinctly and getting to the exact, most important point, as I've told him before. 

You were nice to point out exact definitions and rules which I felt educated me on this subject. And John was right to point out that no matter what the rules and definitions are, apparently the New York City Police don't seem to give a damn.

Tom
 
Richard said:
What part of "general distinction" is giving you fellas trouble? :)


If you've got nothing better to do than heckle someone for contributing relevant facts to a conversation, and making a good faith effort to be clear in light of a similar, recent misunderstanding, then maybe that says more about you than it does about the person being heckled.


(Just responding to natural thread drift.)

Maybe you misunderstood our (or at least, MY) meaning.

The fact that we pointed out the ambiguity of the words, 'motor' versus 'engine' has to do with the way we all tend to use the terms, in common and legal language, as almost interchangeable.

You didn't create those terms and assign meaning to them, so no one is heckling you. At least, I wasn't.

So, the comment I made is a general observation about the terms we are able to use, and/or, misuse.

It's sorta like the terms today, 'smartphone' and 'cellphone'...often used interchangeably, and we do kinda know the difference, but in 99% of common usage, they usually mean the same thing...more or less.

And we refer to Google as a search 'engine' but that does not mean any of us think there is a big, honkin V8 chugging away in a data server room somewhere...we all know its not REALLY an engine, combustion, electric, or otherwise.

What we have to work with here is the English language, with all of its beauty, and all of its limitations.

Or so it seems to me.

Ok, back to the topic at hand...what was it again?
 
StarEcho said:
Take a look at this:

https://comingsoon-tech.com/urbanx-smart-electric-bike-wheel


You could then get any bike you wanted (as long as the tire was a size they make) and use this wheel instead of the current front wheel.  Instant e-bike!  My brother should be getting his any day.  So to travel with it, you could carry it any way that you would carry a regular bike.  I'd probably just carry the front wheel inside.  The battery is in the wheel so it's very convenient.

My current e-bike is a discontinued sanyo model that only does pedal assist, but it's good enough for me.  I have a bike carrier for it for the back of my suburban, but honestly it's a bit big to carry and heft onto that bike rack.  So I'm looking to downsize and get a lightweight regular bike and use the wheel linked to above.

So why is everyone in the video peddling? :)
 
Vagabound said:
Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I didn't see anything that you said that would be objectionable,

Thanks, Tom. I didn't see anything objectionable, either, but text can sometimes be a tricky medium to navigate well.


Vagabound said:
though in actual application, it seems the distinction between engine and motor is rarely adhered to.

True enough. If the conversation was strictly a layman's issue, I'd likely not have pointed out the general distinction between engines and motors. But, because it's a legal context, terminology matters, hence my mention of the general distinction in the hopes of heading off the kind of semantic wrangling that occurred elsewhere over the term "wilderness".


Vagabound said:
And I don't see John/OP's point and yours as being contradictory.
 
Nor did I. I quoted part of John's post to contribute an answer to the question that he asked, not to contradict anything he wrote. I included the question embedded between two statements so that the context of his question might be understood by someone who may not have read his original post. My goal was for interested readers to put the pieces together in their own mind similar to the following Q&A: (bold emphasis mine)

Q: They have motors.  So are they bicycles or motor vehicles?  If they are motor vehicles, they need license plates and insurance to use them on public streets.

A: Per Federal law, they're bicycles unless:
  • They're powered by a combustion engine that exceeds a certain power threshold, the vehicle can exceed a certain speed threshold, the vehicle has a VIN number, and it was originally manufactured with required safety equipment, OR
  • They're powered by an electric motor that exceeds a certain power threshold, the vehicle can exceed a certain speed threshold on level ground with a rider of a specified weight, and were originally manufactured as such; self-assembly not necessarily subject to these criteria.
HOWEVER, in all cases:
  • Under present-day NHTSA rules, the final decision as to whether such federally defined off-road vehicles may be legally operated on public roads is determined by the laws of the state in which the vehicle is being operated, AND
  • The laws of the individual state and/or local jurisdiction govern the type, motor wattage, and speed capability of e-bikes used on public roadways.

Vagabound said:
...John was right to point out that no matter what the rules and definitions are, apparently the New York City Police don't seem to give a damn.

As mentioned in my earlier reply, the states do have the final say in the matter. I didn't contest that fact by what I posted; I affirmed it. I'm not taking the position that the NY police didn't do, or shouldn't have done, what they did. I'm saying that in the absence of state law, there is federal law to cover the case. But, where state law exists, that takes precedence.

In any case, I think this whole misunderstanding could have been avoided had "That's nice" not found its way into the conversation. That goes for my decision to lob it back to its origin, too.
 
tx2sturgis said:
...
Maybe you misunderstood our (or at least, MY) meaning.  
...

Since I was the only one who mentioned the engine/motor distinction, when comments poking at that distinction appeared after mine, I understood those comments as replies to what I wrote. Hence my comment about heckling. Sorry to have misunderstood you.
 
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