Due diligence

[Optimistic Paranoid]

So I've been looking for a vehicle for some time now.  For various reasons, I've got a particular make and model in mind, and in a fairly narrow range of years.

Today I found just what I am looking for on Ebay.  An independent dealership located about 150 miles away from me, over in PA (I'm in NY).  Ebay says they have a 99.5% positive rating.  OK.

I go out to their website and see they have quite a few vehicles for sale, this ain't your corner lot with 6 cars sitting on it.  OK.

Looked at the Carfax, it looked good.  A 1 owner car with no known problems.  Now, Highdesertranger has correctly pointed out how you can't completely trust them, there are ways they could be wrong.  I agree that a positive report has to be taken with a grain of salt.  But a negative report - accidents, a salvage title, etc. - can always be trusted.  Plus the history tells you WHERE a car is from, and when it was there, which can help you spot cars that might have been flooded by a hurricane or something.  Also, it tells you when the dealer acquired it.  If you know how long he's been trying to sell it, that can be helpful when it comes time to negotiate a price. 

So anyway, the Carfax looked good.  OK.

Tried to check them out with the Better Business Bureau of PA.  Was told that they weren't a member of BBB and were "unrated".  BBB said they were unrated because their file was "under review".  Hmmn.

Did a Google search on the dealer name, followed by "reviews".  Guess what?  Found a report that the PA Attorney General had filed a lawsuit against them in March alleging multiple counts of consumer fraud.  Damn!

Sigh!  Back to the drawing board!

Regards
John

 

[ramblingvanman]

You dodged a bullet my friend.

 

[masterplumber]

I wouldn't put too much wait in the BBB listing them as unrated. Companies have to pay to be a member and many like myself refuse to do so. Take the BBB rating kind of like the Carfax rating - no rating means nothing, but a negative rating is definitely something to be concerned about. Now having charges filed agains t hem by the Attorney General is a whole different ball of wax - run far, run fast!

 

[Canine]

Smart to keep digging, like you did. Remember a website is just advertising, and companies/sellers always try to put the "best foot forward". None of them will tell you there are issues that might make you pass by. Their salesman's job is to get you to purchase, the ads are a teaser to get you onto the lot.

Pics can be retouched or photoshopped. Pics can be taken in such a way that something isn't visible. So much has to be verified now, yet it hasn't changed much from the old days' horse traders, actually!

BBB is a guide. If listed and A rated that's good. If complaints then that's bad. If unlisted that's neither good nor bad, you just don't know. AG lawsuits are "rarely" good! ?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I wouldn't put too much wait in the BBB listing them as unrated. Companies have to pay to be a member and many like myself refuse to do so. Take the BBB rating kind of like the Carfax rating - no rating means nothing, but a negative rating is definitely something to be concerned about. Now having charges filed agains t hem by the Attorney General is a whole different ball of wax - run far, run fast!

In this particular case, the BB said that the reason it was unrated was because their file was being reviewed.

This tells me that:

a:  There is a file on them

and

b:  Something has happened to cause the business to be re-evaluated.

A  good reason, to my mind, to keep digging

Regards
John

 

[Patrick46]

Your thoroughness paid off for you.

Waytago!! Saved yourself ALOT of problems

 

[flying kurbmaster]

why don't you just go look at the vehicle, if this is the vehicle you are looking for, and it is rare, it fits all your criteria, is a 150 mile drive not worth the effort, you can meet with them, look at the vehicle get a feel for the people you are dealing with, the state of the van, you can always walk away. I am sure if they are as big as you say, they must be doing something right. It is easy to make a complaint, if they are selling a lot of cars they can't possibly get it right in every ones minds every single time, consumer fraud could be as simple as an oversight. There are a lot of bad customers out there as well, looking to cash in on any angle. Just because there is a case against them doesn't mean that they are guilty of anything. Being in the car business is very difficult as you don't make the cars, you just get them from trade ins or buy them from other dealers, how can you possibly know everything about every vehicle that comes to you, you are bound to call it wrong once in a while. If it was me I would go and talk to them, look at the vehicle, you are bound to learn something from the exchange.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

why don't you just go look at the vehicle, if this is the vehicle you are looking for, and it is rare, it fits all your criteria, is a 150 mile drive not worth the effort, you can meet with them, look at the vehicle get a feel for the people you are dealing with, the state of the van, you can always walk away. I am sure if they are as big as you say, they must be doing something right.  It is easy to make a complaint, if they are selling a lot of cars they can't possibly get it right in every ones minds every single time, consumer fraud could be as simple as an oversight. There are a lot of bad customers out there as well, looking to cash in on any angle. Just because there is a case against them doesn't mean that they are guilty of anything. Being in the car business is very difficult as you don't make the cars, you just get them from trade ins or buy them from other dealers, how can you possibly know everything about every vehicle that comes to you, you are bound to call it wrong once in a while. If it was me I would go and talk to them, look at the vehicle, you are bound to learn something from the exchange.

Actually, I didn't stop with the report about the Attorney Generals Suit.  I found a couple of other reports that I REALLY didn't like.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/car-vision-norristown-pennsylvania-c206937.html

and

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Car-V...car-that-had-been-totaled-purchased-at-923695

Regards
John

 

[minimotos95]

I wouldn't worry about the dealer if the vehicle checks out and you are a cash buyer or not using their financing. Just like I wouldn't choose not to buy something private party just because the seller seems shady. How rare is the vehicle your looking for with the options you want? if it's that rare and
you are willing to pay the price a good dealer will locate exactly what you want anywhere in the lower 48 and have it brought to you.

 

[akrvbob]

I'd go look at it. You're buying a vehicle not getting married. If you take it to a mechanic and he says it's good what do you really have to lose?
Bob

 

[ZoNiE]

I'd go look at it. You're buying a vehicle not getting married. If you take it to a mechanic and he says it's good what do you really have to lose?
Bob

X2

 

[highdesertranger]

yeah it sounds like you got multiple red flags. I hope I didn't put too negative of a response on carfax. what I was trying to get across is just because the report comes back clean, doesn't mean the vehicles history is clean. there is still good info in the report. just don't put all your lemons in one basket. know what I mean vern. highdesertranger

 

[SoulRaven]

I would judge the vehicle in person, on it's own merits. Even if the dealer is a flake and sells 90% lemons, that doesn't mean this one isn't a peach.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm going to be perfectly honest with you guys.  Psychologically, I just can't deal with those people.

I'm looking for a late model F250 4x4.  I'm gonna end up spending somewhere between 20 and 30 grand to get a nice, low mileage one.  I know that's what they go for.  I have the money saved.  But I've never spent more than 3 grand on a car before.  Hell, I've never spent more than 3 grand on ANYTHING before. 

I just CANNOT walk into a place where I KNOW they are dishonest and will try to pass junk off on me and hand them most of my life's savings.  CANNOT.  It's taken me a long time to save up that money, and I can't risk spending it on junk. No matter how hard I look their truck over, I will be subconsciously convinced I've missed something and I've just thrown my money away.  I won't feel I can trust that vehicle and I won't be happy with it. 

Yeah, it's all in my head, but there it is.

The search goes on.

Regards
John

 

[Matlock]

OP
Keep looking.
And for my 2¢ if your spending that kind of cash I'd look for a truck being sold by the original owner. Skip the dealers and save their mark-up.
I wouldn't concern myself with any warranty that a dealer might offer, either. If there is any remaining Mfg. warranty that will transfer, that's a plus.

Many folks keep all service records on their new vehicle. Ask to see them. If they don't have or can't find them that's a red flag.
Then check the Vin and with a mechanic and you'll know what your getting into.

 

[ccbreder]

considering what you are prepared to spend and the year you want, check with ford dealers for a certified used truck. get a warranty.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

FWIW, I'm really hoping to buy one from a dealer here in NY.  Most states have "Lemon Laws" that only apply to new cars.  NY actually has one that applies to USED cars.

https://www.ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/pdfs/bureaus/consumer_fraud/usedcar_lemon_bill_rights.pdf

Regards
John

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I'm looking for a late model F250 4x4.  I'm gonna end up spending somewhere between 20 and 30 grand I will be convinced I've missed something and I've just thrown my money away and I won't be happy with it. 

Yeah, it's all in my head, but there it is.

The search goes on.

Regards
John

Sorry I didn't realize you were spending 30 grand, in that case I agree with you,  I would also feel like I missed something and was throwing my money away and would never be happy. 

 

[WriterMs]

Wow, OP,
You really have that "paranoid" side working for you -- in a VERY GOOD way. To have thought out which state would provide you with the best legal recourse? Impressive.

I suspect it would be hard for most of us to pull the trigger on that kind of purchase -- even when the dealer has a sterling reputation. But you have obviously put a LOT of thought into what you want and why.

You have to go with your gut on things like this so that you are singing inside with happiness when you drive away vs having a nagging, worried feeling.

 

[highdesertranger]

you know what, I feel that if you know the dealer is a shyster and they sell 90% junk, I wouldn't give them the business, even if it is a sweet deal. we all as a nation need to stand up to what's right and what's wrong. if people keep buying their junk they just keep right on ripping people off. I feel this way about several companies and they will not get a penny from me. highdesertranger