Do you vent in below freezing temperatures?

[Panda]

I bought my van last month, I don't plan to take off until December where I plan to stay in Denver / Breckenridge during the winter when it gets below freezing on a regular basis. I plan on buying either the Mr. Buddy or a Wave 3, but I'm wondering if I need to worry about installing the Maxxair for this seasonal trip. 

Chrome on VanCityVanLife hasn't installed a vent and he spent all of winter in Canada. So now I'm asking you winter dwellers out there, do you even turn on your vent in the winter? If not I may put it off until the spring...

 

[Almost There]

You will want to vent no matter the temperature if you're using an non-vented propane heater such as the Mr. Buddy.

You might want to consider rain guards instead of a roof-vent so that you can keep the heat from going out the roof at the same time as allowing for the necessary venting for the propane heater.

Not familiar with the person Chrome you mention but they may very well live in some place like Vancouver or the island where the temperatures are generally much milder than Denver. Just because they're north of you doesn't mean that it's colder!

 

[Panda]

Thanks for the catch! I should probably estimate colder temperatures than Vancouver. 

I'm definitely going to use rain guards, but would I also need a roof vent? My van doesn't have windows in the back, only two in the front, I assumed those would be for intake.

 

[lenny flank]

Yes. If you don't have ventilation, you'll get condensation, and that is bad juju.

 

[John61CT]

Yes just a slower CFM rate. Control is the key, eliminate all uncontrolled convection / infiltration as much as possible.

Direct the exit flow out over the hot bit of your fridge setup, or where you cook, or through your battery box.

But not propane box - if you have one, that should be sealed from the living space.

 

[MrNoodly]

Thanks for the catch! I should probably estimate colder temperatures than Vancouver.

During the winter, the daytime HIGH temperatures at elevations like Breckenridge hover around 32°F/0°C with nighttime temperatures around 10°F/-12°C or lower.

 

[bullfrog]

The Wave in my opinion will be the better choice if you make sure you have the proper ventilation. I have had problems with the Buddy's safety devices at times and using the small propane bottles as the ones I have gotten have failed to light or stay lit above 7,000 feet and close to zero temperatures, but then I'm lucky like that. If you like warm and vent more to prevent condensation you might consider the larger Wave especially if you don't insulate as much for more space. The mini wood burners are looking pretty good as no condensation results. A 110 electric ceramic heater has worked really well for me if you can find someplace to plug in especially since diesel vehicles need them for overnight block heaters they are becoming easier to find.

 

[John61CT]

If off-grid consider Espar / Webasto style, burn your vehicle fuel.

Or Propex HS2211 for propane

Safer, very efficient.

 

[Panda]

I have had problems with the Buddy's safety devices at times and using the small propane bottles as the ones I have gotten have failed to light or stay lit above 7,000 feet and close to zero temperatures

I was in Breckenridge last week and had this exact same issue with the buddy heater, without my sleeping bag I would've froze. I realized without having a warm interior to lounge, living well wasn't possible and / or sustainable. I ended up driving back home, considering a larger van and taking all the advice to go for the wave 3...

 

[frater secessus]

I vent 24/7. As john notes, in subfreezing temps I just run it on the lowest (10%) speed. I also pull air in rather than push out in cold, believing (justifiably or otherwise) that this preserves some of the heat at ceiling.

 

[regis101]

So. Rain guard(s) on the front doors and a powered reversible vent at the rear to enable multiple ways of ventilation. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[lenny flank]

Alas, propane produces water vapor when it burns, so if you don't vent it will cause moisture buildup and condensation.

In addition, airflow is necessary when using any source of combustion.

 

[John61CT]

Even without burning propane, mammals offgas a lot of water vapour from lungs and skin.

A complete insulation envelope, no uncontrolled convection / infiltration, no thermal bridging really help lower heating fuel consumption.

But then you need very controllable ventilation to keep humidity down.

 

[John61CT]

So. Rain guard(s) on the front doors and a powered reversible vent at the rear to enable multiple ways of ventilation. Am I reading this correctly?

That is a good plan and very common example. But of course not the only way

 

[bullfrog]

People put vents behind license plate areas as well as the floor just make sure you can close them off when traveling down dusty roads!

 

[John61CT]

fully sealable

careful about exhaust when sitting, CO kills

 

[ssminnow]

Don't underestimate the problems of living in air with 0% humidity and that's what you get when it gets super cold outside!
If you add a forced air furnace to that, you can have some problems! We need some moisture in the air.
In MN we run humidifiers to keep some water in the air. Moisture will also knock down airborne pathogens. it is pretty easy to get sick
when all the germs and bacteria are airborne. Especially with older people or people with respiratory issues.
Being out in a sleeper fish house on Lake of the Woods for 4 days in January can get brutal!

 

[grahampa]

One solution I saw in a video on youtube, something like Alaska van build, was to have an interior propane box. Just make sure it is sealed from your living space and vent it to the ground because propane sinks. But you'd have to keep it warm all the time. I live in Denver area and am building a van to live closer to summit county too, we should stay in touch.

 

[John61CT]

Like most things, it's all about balance.

With mammals living in a tightly sealed enclosed space, the humidity being **too high** is much more common a problem

and the (ideally constant) ventilation, when turned down to a tiny enough exchange rate in order to remain comfortable in arctic outside temps,

the air inside will still be at pretty high humidity, certainly not zero.

If your hygrometer does get lower than you prefer, just keep water (or a pot of soup, or tonight's dinner) on the burner set to simmer, in those conditions with enough insulation that is all the heating you need.

 

[Panda]

I live in Denver area and am building a van to live closer to summit county too, we should stay in touch.

Definitely! When I was in Denver, I didn't know anyone. I met a few van folks at Breckenridge, there were quite a few of us there over Thanksgiving. Anyone doing the same, feel free to send me a PM.