Do you have a plan for when the S#$%^T hits the fan

[vanbrat]

As some of you know I have had a rough 2 yrs, hubby with cancer. Stepdad with heart failure and cancer, mom is having "issues". Mom and stepdad about 6 yrs ago sold their house and moved in with us while getting an RV and getting ready to see the country. Mom also insisted they find a "homebase' before heading out. That never happened. So they parked in a cheap nothing there RV parking lot for almost a year. While parked there they also had several major medical things come up kidney cancer heart issues and then some minor mechanical things with the RV, and no luck finding a homebase house under 200,000 in the Seattle area. DUH! WE tried to talk them into having homebase here as then we could all watch out for each other. By 'here' I meant build their own house on our property. But nope, they wanted to be on the mainland. So then when cancer struck still we offered but they choose to park in my son's driveway Mom is not easy to live with and just about killed his marriage. So in an emergency they came to live with us but then to a senior housing. Now stepdad has passed and Mom developed full on Demetia/Alzheimer's and we get to deal with that. With almost no funding. So again my question what are your plans for when you can't do it anymore? If you don't have a plan who gets stuck.....

 

[rruff]

If you don't have a plan who gets stuck....

Good question... I don't really have anyone to "stick". Guess it would be my sister if she is still alive, but she is older than I am, so...

I've always hated being taken care of. Ya I know, you think everything is ok and then it's not, and you need care. Unless I'm mending, then staying in that state as long as possible makes no sense. So... throw a party, inject me with a lethal OD of my drug of choice, and I can go out on a high note. Why not? Seems like in a civilized country, this is just how we'd do it.

The only issues I can think of are a) the medical industry will miss the $$$ they are hoping to extract from my account, and b) it will upset the delicate sensibilities of some religious nuts.

 

[bullfrog !]

We own a home in town we bought below market value and fixed it up and made it an AirBnb. Using income from that home we bought a second home that was zoned to allow us to live with a family member that happens to be a nurse. We allow them to live in the house (which they will eventually inherit) if they pay the mortgage and help us with our medical needs. We also live in our trailer/casita on the property along with a friend in his trailer. My friend maintains the AirBnb in exchange for a place to park his trailer. I pay all the property’s utilities and improvements if the AirBnb profits can’t, which usually only happens a few months during the summer. I am a veteran so if necessary I can use those benefits. We also are Escapees and have possible access to the Care Center in Livingston Texas. We worked there early on to check it out but don’t feel we will need it unless living here becomes too much an emotional strain for all involved. After seeing my mother and father in long term care and hospice I have a living will with a do not resuscitate clause but under many state laws you cannot depend on ending life while in the care of someone in my opinion. In my father’s case he was refused surgery that most likely would have ended his life because his mental state had deteriorated and was forced to live in hospice suffering almost 2 months before passing by starvation and dehydration. That makes the above option not so great and at the least a difficult decision to make prematurely but time will tell. You don’t always get what you want it seems. America needs to change it’s medical care system and antiquated laws in my opinion.

 

[rruff]

In my father’s case he was refused surgery that most likely would have ended his life because his mental state had deteriorated and was forced to live in hospice suffering almost 2 months before passing by starvation and dehydration.

What sort of barbaric and idiotic "logic" determines that this is a sensible approach?

We won't actually kill him... just deprive him of food and water, and wait...

 

[Sky King]

Life can totally change in an instant. If you fail to plan you plan to fail.

 

[bullfrog !]

What sort of barbaric and idiotic "logic" determines that this is a sensible approach?

We won't actually kill him... just deprive him of food and water, and wait...

State of Kentucky killing is a “sin” I guess, just plain cruel in my opinion. This is what happens when you let religion take over politics.

 

[Morgana]

One way to hopefully avoid having other people make end-of-life choices for you, including barbaric ones like Bullfrog described, is to make a "living will," tell people about it, and have it on file somewhere people can find it. My designated emergency contact has a copy of mine. Even if your doctor has not already bugged you about it 100x, they will probably be able to give you a blank form to fill out. I don't know that you HAVE to use the designated form, but it can help you think through the different scenarios you need to be prepared for. Here's some advice from the National Institute on Aging -- not that this is only relevant to the olds!! -- that also includes links to places you can download a blank form (these vary a little by state, I think)
https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/adva...-living-will#how-do-you-prepare-a-living-will
I was pretty confident that I knew what I wanted, but when it came time to put it on paper I still found it challenging. It's tempting to procrastinate, but really -- JUST GET IT DONE. You could save yourself or someone else a really bad time down the line, as Van Fan and Bullfrog have said.

 

[WanderingRose]

Having said for years that I would keep going til I could go no more, I gave up my half time or so RV travel this past year.

It just felt like the right thing to do, and the right time to do it.

I’d been widowed 10 years, had a couple of health flareups, and at 75 with a 15 year old dog it seemed prudent to quit while it was a decision I could make rather than one made for me in an emergency.

Clearing out the BVan and getting it sold was very taxing, to say the least, but I realized in the process that my kids could have cleaned it out and listed it but not been able to answer a single question as to its use and operation. Best that I dealt with that myself, while I could.

I haven’t regretted that sale for a minute, and we are now wintering over in the small s&b I raised my children in. All on one floor, should be able to age in place and be here a good while longer, having health aides come in if need be.

With any luck, some travel will continue for years yet, but in a less labor intensive manner.

When my husband died suddenly at 65, 900 miles from home, we had no plan for his death, funeral, nothing, and having to do all that in the throes of shock and devastation is not something I would wish on anyone.

I spent a couple of months last year getting all financial and legal affairs in order, tho I am medically stable I know that could change at any time. My two adult children will step in when needed, and that should be fairly seamless.

There’s something to be said for perhaps dying alone, out in the wilds somewhere in your travel rig in a favorite place, but not with a dependent dog, was my thought.

Things tend to go bad quickly, is my experience, and making a plan before that happens is a good thing.

We often think we are doing well and have plenty of time, until we don’t.

 

[Sky King]

I think if someone is in pain with no chance of recovery they should be able to choose to be put down much like we do for our pets but looks like Canada and the UK may be going too far.
Some health care workers in Canada grappling with patients requesting euthanasia
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...grappling-with-patients-requesting-euthanasia
https://patriotpost.us/articles/113...tm_campaign=weekend_snapshot&utm_content=body

 

[bullfrog !]

I think if someone is in pain with no chance of recovery they should be able to choose to be put down much like we do for our pets but looks like Canada and the UK may be going too far.
Some health care workers in Canada grappling with patients requesting euthanasia
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...grappling-with-patients-requesting-euthanasia
https://patriotpost.us/articles/113...tm_campaign=weekend_snapshot&utm_content=body

Good or evil BS in the last one.

 

[rruff]

State of Kentucky killing is a “sin” I guess, just plain cruel in my opinion. This is what happens when you let religion take over politics.

Doesn't depriving someone of food and water until they die... fit the definition of killing them? I mean obviously the intent is that they'd die.

 

[Sky King]

Doesn't depriving someone of food and water until they die... fit the definition of killing them? I mean obviously the intent is that they'd die.

If you killed your dog that way you'd be charged with cruelty which is. Oregon has the best laws as you need not be a resident.

 

[Lorelei072]

State of Kentucky killing is a “sin” I guess, just plain cruel in my opinion. This is what happens when you let religion take over politics.

What religion promotes starvation over providing care?

 

[Lorelei072]

Docs are great salesmen. What if they got bonuses for reducing your carbon footprint?

 

[bullfrog !]

What religion promotes starvation over providing care?

Most of them in Kentucky apparently as most voted in the people that made the laws. Killing in any form is left up to their God’s will. In my father’s case with digestive problems feeding just made the situation worse, pain meds just extended his misery and mine as I stayed with him his last 23 days.

 

[vanbrat]

So some of the things I have seen here I want to address.

A living will is a great thing have one and have it ready. But if a family member objects sometimes, it is overlooked, inform your family and maybe talk to a lawyer about how to make it really firm.

Also find out if your state has "comfort care"! It is what I had to authorize for my stepdad. As after one conversation with Mom the docs all refused her input and got permission from dad to let me be his medical Power of Attorney person. Which mom will never know about. She still when she knows/remembers he is gone she is planning to sue the world because he just needed to 'sit up' better.

Comfort care is when the hospital or hospice give as many meds, care, food, or whatever is needed to keep patient comfortable with the realization that they are going to die--but die comfortable. The docs talked about it that yea they could keep him alive for maybe a few more weeks but it would mean breathing tube, feeding tube, dialysis's, CPR, and lots of needles. Not much comfort there. As it was, he passed watching his football team win and listening to his favorite music and talking to family. Then he closed his eyes and was gone. Peacefully, comfortably.....

Mom has serious mind stuff. She was always very smart, very active and always independent. Now she can't remember how old she is and doesn't know what state she is in much less anything else. Their banking was/is a mess. She is miserable ALL THE TIME. We now have a DNR for her. We are looking at new meds, but the reality is this is as good as it is going to get. And the insurance's do NOT see this as medical so there is NO coverage for it. It is now draining my finances. We are trying to get VA benefits, but they won't kick in for a long time yet. And yes we are fighting for her to get something out of Medicaid but the little she does have has to be totally gone and her pension is just enough too much to be screwing things up. And I won't let her become a word of the state those places are sad. Also, most assisted living or even nursing homes don't accept Medicaid for the first 1-3 years of full price paid by someone...

So make plans. Make plans. Make more plans.

 

[bullfrog !]

I agree with all you stated “but” pain meds like morphine slow the bodily functions and can extend the amount of time the person stays alive and there is a limit to how effective it continues to work to decrease pain. As it was explained to me, the more you use the longer your body will live and the more likely you will reach the stage it becomes less effective. I had medical power of attorney and therefore had to determine how much and when my dad got medicated. He was delirious most of the time but if he started to moan I immediately got the hospice nurse to give him morphine. She warned after 9 or 10 days that if we gave it to often he might continue like this for as long as 30 days. His last days were the worst days of his and my life. Hospice has limits and are careful as to not overdose to enable death due to the state’s laws. My dad had already requested surgery he knew he most likely wouldn’t survive before I arrived. Once I arrived it was determined no doctor would do it as it “might be considered enabling death” and therefore illegal. Sad moral of this story is you almost have to die before it is really necessary because once you cannot do it on your own you jeopardize other’s lives. Not a very good plan in my opinion.

 

[vanbrat]

Sometimes times the 'medical' world is very screwed up. And the world of insurance that we all need and pay into is worse than screwed up.

 

[WanderingRose]

pain meds like morphine slow the bodily functions and can extend the amount of time the person stays alive and there is a limit to how effective it continues to work to decrease pain. As it was explained to me, the more you use the longer your body will live and the more likely you will reach the stage it becomes less effective.

If we don’t die suddenly, many of us die with hospice care, who seem to be experts in providing end of life care.

I haven’t heard this about morphine and other pain medications, but I would not want to die in agony.

I hope and suspect hospice has found a way to ease pain while allowing one to die with dignity.

My daughter is a hospice social worker, and I feel confident she with my son will do the best they can for me when the time comes.

 

[bullfrog !]

If we don’t die suddenly, many of us die with hospice care, who seem to be experts in providing end of life care.

I haven’t heard this about morphine and other pain medications, but I would not want to die in agony.

I hope and suspect hospice has found a way to ease pain while allowing one to die with dignity.

My daughter is a hospice social worker, and I feel confident she with my son will do the best they can for me when the time comes.

Hospice nurses are wonderful people in a stressful and difficult situations.. I basically lived there and asked questions till I got honest answers so I could make decisions for my dad’s care. They do what they are allowed to do with what they are allowed to have but laws prevent them from doing what is best in my opinion. Once you are “trapped” in the system you just have to do the best you can. Laws need to change or allow a more humane solution not influenced so much by strict religious beliefs in my opinion.