Dieselization

[eDJ_]

Many years ago when my Dad had his Class C  he was looking into swapping out the gasoline engine to replace it with a 5 cyl German Deutz Air Cooled Diesel.  We were living in the North Carolina area then and the diesel would have made better sense fuel mileage and durability wise.   Dad found a company that would do
the install but wouldn't undertake to set up the heating system. That would be left to the owner.

Since then I met a retired gentleman who modified a Chevy 3/4 ton pick up with a home built cap on the back
that he could stand up in.  He was a full timer who had been a Semi Driver all his life.  He told me that he had
pulled the gasoline engine and replaced it with a Perkins Diesel and was getting great fuel mileage now with an engine that would probably out last him.    He showed me how he had set the engine back 16 inches and used a
5 speed transmission. He explained he got the idea for the Perkins from fishermen in Louisiana who were using
them and getting better results than what most of the other fishermen were getting with their diesel engine choices.  Perkins are custom built to the application he told me.

I've been giving this consideration should I need to replace the engine in my outfit.   If these inline Diesel's could even get close to 40 mpg, offer more room for periodic maintenance, and last for years dependably
I'm wondering if it would be worth it.   I'm thinking I favor the Perkins Diesel from the UK.


Videos as follows.

Deutz Air Diesel installs



Deutz 5 cyl

63 Ford pick up with Perkins install



Perkins

The merits of Diesel conversions  Shade Tree Conversions  Video 1, 2, 3




I would add that the Diesel may not be a good cold climate choice.  Although one could tour
in the warmer states during the winter months and go north in the summer when it heats up
in the south.

Has anyone here considered a Diesel retro fit when they start their project.

 

[LowTech]

I've def considered putting a Commins 4, or, 6BT in a van that I want to put on a 4x4 chassis.

 

[Bdog1]

I think 40mpg is way optimistic. Figure low twenties.

Years ago I did some work on a 3/4 ton Chevy truck that was Perkins powered. L6. It was cool but underpowered, even for the 1980s. . The owner spent lots of time in Baja.

Why not just buy a Cummins Dodge 4x4 from the model years before all the electronics came in. You should be able to get 20mpg if you go easy on it.

 

[eDJ_]

Dieselization, 

An old Railroad term I hear when around Railroad Historical types.   It was a term to
describe the switching over from live steam locomotives to the diesels.   Or today
choosing to swap gasoline out and diesel in. 

As for fuel mileage,  yes I'd have to have that proven to me too.  But the 60 mpg Capri sure is enticing.

I understand that VW has a new high mileage Diesel Electric hybrid (XL100) that's been years in the making.
260 Mpg 2 seat  2 cyl Diesel turbo and 3 phase electric motor.

Video

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/kengo_fudoshin/2014-Volkswagen-XR1-parked_zps3676cd64.jpg

 

[Baloo]

I love this topic! My ambo is a big old dt360, but I recently picked up a Kubota V2203 to install in my Bronco II. I will be using a K03 turbo from a VW Passat. There are guys who put them in Rangers and boast over 40mpg. I am waiting on a few parts right now for it. Also much like my ambo, I plan to run WVO set up with dual tanks. Best part, no computer, or ignition system!

 

[eDJ_]

Video  VW XL 1 (try again)

 

[SoulRaven]

Generally if you add up your long term costs of both fuel and maintenance, a gas engine is much cheaper. Gas mileage alone is an unfair comparison because the maintenance on diesels is so much higher, and in some area's I've seen diesel prices over $1 higher than regular gas prices.

 

[Baloo]

Generally if you add up your long term costs of both fuel and maintenance, a gas engine is much cheaper. Gas mileage alone is an unfair comparison because the maintenance on diesels is so much higher, and in some area's I've seen diesel prices over $1 higher than regular gas prices.

This can be true in some cases, but much like any other likes and choices, some us prefer to have a Diesel engine. It is a shame there are not more of them available in vans and light trucks in this country. Much like in my case, they don't make it, so I am building one. It may not be the most pragmatic solution for all, but it makes me happy. After all isn't that what life is about...

Here is my Kubota when I first got it, not cleaned up and painted yet, I will take an updated pic.

 

[SternWake]

Keep in mind all internet MPG claims are like the Fish that got away stories.

I saw one guy claim over and over that he was getting 19MPG city, in a 350 powered full size chevy Van.

The 350 is a great motor, but no way is 19MPG city achievable.

A shame North America has been so reluctant to adopt the diesel but after lots of third world travelling, I am glad to not smell the choking fumes of a fleet of idling diesels either. I'd certainly not spend 5K$ to save 1K dollars in fuel over the next decade by Dieselization.

4K$ buys a lot of bragging rights though. One might even be tempted to post claims of 40MPG, then hit the back space button a few times and change the 0 into a 6, then maybe an 8. Heck why not go for 50MPG+. Its only the internet.

 

[highdesertranger]

I know a diesel use more oil than gasser, but after that I don't understand why a lot of people say the maintenance for a diesel is a lot more. I would like some facts to back that up, not just hearsay. another point, here in kalifornia diesel has been cheaper than gas for the last 3 years. right now it's about 50 cents per gallon cheaper. another point, any vehicle with a similar size diesel or gas motor the diesel will get better mpg. why you might ask? it's because a diesel is a much more efficient power plant, meaning it is better at converting a given amount of fuel into useable energy. plus a diesel can run off of all types of concoctions wvo, wmo, kero, wto. they can even run off all those before they are waste, waste is just cheaper. I believe most of the negatives people throw about diesel's is because they don't understand them, so it's kinda like the fear of the unknown. actually a diesel is a much simpler power plant than a gasser. now I am not talking about todays engines which both are way to complicated, but even with this a diesel is the simpler of the two. I am going to convert my truck to diesel so I might be prejudice. highdesertranger

 

[Baloo]

While some people are on the Internet to gloat some outlandish claims, I invite anyone to see, ride in, and take numbers to verify what I post. I don't post to show off, I and doubt anyone on this forum does that. I post to share, and inspire with what I have tried, what works and what doesn't. Diesel aren't for everyone, but this topic is about diesel swaps and conversions. It takes a very skilled and dedicated person to pull off successful conversion. I wish the best of luck to those who dream of it are taking on a diesel conversion. I will post my progress to those who want to read about it. There, I will get off the diesel soap box...

 

[eDJ_]

I've spoken with a number of Diesel mechanics about the differences between Gas and Diesel engines.

What they tell me is the Diesel is most sensitive in it's fuel pump and injectors.  It doesn't have the
wide rpm range as a Gasser but has greater torque in a more set lower rpm band.  This is why
the big trucks have so many gear ratio's in their transmissions.  Thus the Diesel runs in it's best rpm
band and corrects with gears to the grade of the terrain.

So often inexperienced Diesel operators run their engine up too high in each gear.  It prematurely wears
the injectors out of tolerance.  This is when you begin to see the black smoke  billowing out of the exhaust.
Then the fuel mileage begins to suffer.

As far as maintenance, the Diesels often have large fuel filters, water filters in the cooling system, and
over sized oil filters  and oil sumps in commercial fleet operations.  But for a daily transportation vehicle
driven wisely and inspected for fluid levels often, I would see them being as dependable as a Gasser
with similar maintenance intervals.

There are plenty of Diesel Cars, Pickup's, Vans etc around here in the Ohio Valley where I live.  But I figure
in the winter months they would fare better in more southern climates.   Hard starting in cold weather is the most common issue here.

 

[Baloo]

Most light duty diesels have either an intake warming plate or glow plugs to make it easy to start in cold temps. My international in the Ambo does not. However it start last winter when it was well into the teens. As a mechanic, in my experience diesels don't breakdown as often as a petrol engine. When they do, they often cost more to repair because the parts and tools to fix them cost more. Not to mention services cost more because they hold more oil and have bigger filters. They are a little more picky on fuel quality and water in the fuel is a huge bother, always carry a spare filter!
I have owned quite a few diesels over the years, I work on them, so I am very biased. That being said, I am only stating facts here, unless noted as an experience or opinion. (Wow, my own disclaimer!)
The reason diesels don't like higher rpm's is because of how much rotating mass they have. I guess you could balance the crank, rods, and pistons better and build a high reving engine like the tractor pull guys do. Or change out the front/rear end gears ratio to keep the engine in its "sweet" spot.

 

[SternWake]

Baloo, I was not trying to fling any stones at you personally with my remarks about internet MPG claims.

I do believe the Diesel engine is superior, but implementation of one into a gasser is something few people could do, and in My state of registration would be impossible to do legally.

My old man had an old uncomplicated Perkins inline 6 in his boat(troller). It was the only thing in the boat which never faltered.

My buddy recently bought an '04 Sprinter with a Diesel. It has been sitting at the corner mechanic's for two months now with Fuel delivery issues as he does not just want to blindly throw expensive parts at it, like the high pressure pump. Ultimately that is likely what it will take, in my opinion, before I see it parked in his driveway again.

 

[highdesertranger]

baloo definitely do a build thread on your conversion. highdesertranger

 

[Seraphim]

Generally if you add up your long term costs of both fuel and maintenance, a gas engine is much cheaper.  Gas mileage alone is an unfair comparison because the maintenance on diesels is so much higher, and in some area's I've seen diesel prices over $1 higher than regular gas prices.

Maintenance on ours hasn't really been more costly, and and I change oil every 3000 miles.  It does take 10 quarts. Lately, we've been seeing diesel the same, or even lower, than gas in our area. Today it 10 cents cheaper.  When we bought the truck, diesel was averaging 40 cents higher. And diesel does fine in Midwestern winters. With the truck loaded almost to capacity, we get about 13 mpg.  A lot of that loss though is from wind resistance from the tall truck camper. Other configurations might do better.  We average 16mpg unloaded.

 

[Seraphim]

And you can always add electric heaters for the passenger compartment.

 

[Bdog1]

"Uncomplicated diesel" really hit the nail on the head.
There is such a vast differences between electronic diesels and the old mechanical style.

 

[Baloo]

"Uncomplicated diesel" really hit the nail on the head.
There is such a vast differences between electronic diesels and the old mechanical style.

Ain't that the truth! The whole reason back in the day to buy a diesel was for simplistic reliability. Now they have even more sensors than a petrol motor! The whole reason I bought an older truck was to avoid the computer diesels. I love a good old fashioned injection pump and mechanical injectors. They are about as complex as a brick. I could rebuild my my injectors on the side of the road if I had to.

 

[eDJ_]

I notice in a lot of the photos of these conversions in progress......the whole front of the vehicle
has been removed.   Although it may seem like a whole lot of extra work,  do you think it
would really be the best way to go about making such a conversion. 

Then once you are sure of our install, you can put the sheet metal back on it.

The large Tractors with their fiberglass tilt front ends allow mechanics to get into the engine
and work on it.  But some of these vehicles look like they would be trying to work on a sewing
machine with it still in the box it came in.

The other question would be on gearing ?  Transmissions with an overdrive ratio in 5th gear
or what auto transmissions would exist that would work to yield high mileage.  2 speed rear axle ?