Coyotes, birds of prey and my 20lb (max) dog?

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WalkaboutTed

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Ya know, sometimes ignorance is bliss.  So yesterday, we were at Blake's Lotaburger, sitting outside with our new puppy.  We were talking to one of the guys working there.  We hadn't mentioned our camping van plans. He then said "She looks like my mom's puppy who came to a bad end".  "They were camping and my mom was standing there with her puppy about the size of yours.  She was off the leash because she never strayed more than a few feet.  A hawk flew down, grabbed the puppy and then they never saw her again"

Then he went on "She's had really bad luck with dogs, so she'll never get another one",  "After that, they got a cocker spaniel.  One day there was a coyote on the other side of the front fence and the dog was going crazy at him.  She didn't see the two coyotes sneaking up from behind".  He didn't go on, but we got the message.

We're in Tucson, Arizona and we hear coyotes all the time. We've always had big dogs, they were outside during the day, but crated at night and when we were away.  We lived in a town  20 miles north of Phoenix (New River). People who had cats and kittens would lose them (to hawks?).  We had big dogs up there and never worried about them, even though coyotes would walk down the street in pairs, in daylight.

Now I have a little dog to fit in the van better. I only have a small area for a crate and I had to find a dog to fit. My puppy's mother is 15 lbs and the father (we think he is), is about 20 lbs.  The dog will never be off a leash.  But after hearing that and reading Bob Wells' story about the pack hunting coyotes up by Flag, I'm fearful of taking Lucy for walks any distance.  I made the mistake of reading in Wikipedia about the accounts of coyotes attacking pets, children and even adults. There are a lot of them. And reading about birds of prey, I guess any pet up to about 20lbs is fair game.  After talking with that kid and reading  I'm saying to myself, "Oh, shit, man!, My Baby!"

How are those of you who have small dogs handling going for walks when "out there"?
Thanks,
Ted
 
it doesn't matter how big or small a dog is when it comes to Coyotes. those Coyotes vest are a joke. 1st thing coyotes will do is circle the dog and the ones behind them will go for the tendons on their back legs once the dog is disabled they go for the stomach. keep your guard up, it's what you should be doing anyways. highdesertranger
 
OMG! That vest video had Hubby and me laughing until tears came out of our eyes! The coyote skull was the best!

Okay, so I'm foolish.
Ted
 
Jericho, my Jack Russell Terrorist is 15 pounds, so I'll have to be pretty diligent as well! She's bred to chase foxes and rats, so squirrels, bunnies, even other dogs, are fair game to her... I have yet to buy her a harness, but she will have to have one as she can squeeze her jaw to get out of a collar! So much to think about!!!
 
i hate coyotes,i lost a dog not by attack but by the diseases they spread
 
WalkaboutTed said:
How are those of you who have small dogs handling going for walks when "out there"?

I have a 30 lb beagle.  For ground based predators I rely on Simon's better senses and instinct; I have learned to read his body language.  Coyotes are not a concern of mine because they are (usually) not a fast grab and run attack, they stalk and I hike armed.

My concern is for lightning attacks, especially from above.  No warning.  Nothing for Simon to sense.  I had an eagle swoop down for a look see once (eye level, wingtip about a foot from my nose, scared the poop out of me), don't know why it didn't grab Simon; maybe worried about becoming entangled in the leash deterred it.  Simon is on an 8' neon yellow, retractable tape leash, so it is taut (and visible) all the time.

For ground based predators my advice is to carry protection, be it a gun, pepper spray, a big hiking stick, an air horn (works for bear and large cats, should work for canines).  For an areal attack: I don't know.  It has only happened to me once in about 20 years of hiking with a dog.

AbuelaLoca said:
Jericho, my Jack Russell Terrorist ... I have yet to buy her a harness, but she will have to have one as she can squeeze her jaw to get out of a collar! So much to think about!!!

I have started using a Martingale dog collar for Simon as he is proficient at escaping.  Tried a harness; one arm would be about a foot longer than the other if I had kept using it.
https://www.amazon.com/Martingale-C...ns&keywords=martingale+collars+for+dogs&psc=1

 -- Spiff
 
The first thing I did was teach Max to be off leash and not see it as a chance to escape. He isn't off leash often, unsupervised or long nor does he run off. I do not stake him out like bait or leave him in a pen. I don't walk him far into the undergrowth during the day and not even close to the treeline from dusk on. I use a triple LED flash light that a friend calls the coyote hunter that can light up a area along with a 120 LED cob in my porch light. It alone can light up a small field. The other side has a solar motion detecting light. When it goes on, you know something set it off.

The biggest thing is I watch Max. His breed will yap at whatever they can see or hear, it is why I camp so deep. When Max alerts I pick him up and we go inside.
 
I'm with Spiff.  A good 22 or 38 pistol is nice and light, and even if you miss the coyote, it will send him running.  Keep the dog on a leash.

As for eagles, last I heard they were still protected and you will get in trouble regardless of your reasons if you kill one.  Adopt the same three S's western ranchers have re: wolves.

Shoot. Shovel. Shut Up.

Disclaimer:  I don't hunt, and have no desire to kill any animals.  They can all live forever as long as they leave me and mine alone.  If they don't . . .  Well, I believe the phrase the cops use when some mugger gets himself killed by his intended victim is:  "He suffered a catastrophic failure of the victim selection process."
 
Train your dog to walk at your side, never way far ahead of you.  The biggest mistake I see with dog owners is that they use a leash that is far too long and that is harder to control.
 
Most people that lose their pet up here have it either escape and run off or let it run loose unsupervised. I see found or lost pet threads in the local mountain forum all the time.
 
No Fuss, No Muss, Simpler Solution:


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The forest service in southern nm donates electric fences to keep black bears out of bee hives. Haven't heard of any hives damaged.

One of my cows was willing to go through an electric fence if the grass was better on the other side.

The wires can't be touching vegetation so think of what you will carry for that.
 
And it's illegal to cut or trim vegetation in any state or federal land that I've been
 
jimindenver said:
My luck Max would pee on it and electrocute himself.

Years ago I remember reading about a poor little pup that lifted his leg on one of those portable, roll-around electric signs that was sitting outside of a business on the sidewalk and that's exactly what happened.
 
electric fences will not kill an animal no matter how small they are. when I was a kid an old cowboy I knew use to grab the fence and try to get us to do the same. it only took me once after that no way. I have a portable electric fence it has a 6v battery and a solar panel all built into one small unit. I have never used it. I might someday but never really felt the need. highdesertranger
 
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