crofter...thanks for the tip. I will have to budget for a back up generator, the RV Im looking at has one already on board and it has been serviced. But a small back up would probably be wise, especially if Im going to boondock as much as possible.
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Being a longtime camper makes adaptation to van life infinitely easier, as compared to someone coming straight out of a lifetime of S&B. Once you get the business about pooping, showering, and shampooing figured out, the rest is easy. Many, I should say most, people I've seen set up kitchens in their vans and cook their meals there. For my part, I cook my meals outside, as I don't want the van smelling of food for when I go to grizzly country. All I ever do inside the van is boil water, and then I put the Coleman stove next to the open side doors.Deb_A said:
Just like with camping, it's all a matter of organizing everything. Interestingly, in the CGs I see that most people pull massive amounts of gear out of their vehicles to be strewn all over the place. I pull out exactly what I need, and then put it back in the van after use. So breaking camp normally involves moving just a folding chair and small table back into the van. Quick exit if the grizzly comes.
Dingfelder
Well-known member
That's what my folks did after they retired. Got an RV and drove all over America until they found a place that really appealed to them and seemed like an obvious choice. No rush, enjoying themselves all the while.Deb_A said:
Dingfelder
Well-known member
QinReno said:
This is a really tough one. If, like a friend of mine, your 180 pound husband with a bad hip falls down, are you your 100 pound self going to be able to pick him up? Well, if you're like my friends, you'll be picking up the phone instead and hoping someone close by can come right over.
It doesn't get any better if you reverse the two roles ... the hubby with the bad hip would not be able to help his wife get up. Heck, even a completely healthy guy at 92 shouldn't be lifting much.
I don't want to sound discouraging on that point, but I guess I"m trying to make sure we don't have any illusions about our powers once they are truly in decline. One senior trying to help another is often either unable to do so or would have to risk injury to him or herself to do it. I'm over 200 pounds myself and found it hard to lift 180 pounds of already-injured deadweight-with-a-painful hip and position him anywhere worth being.
Anyway, it's really hard to make the decision to move on from independence to dependence. A whole lot of people can't do it until social services, a distraught son or daughter, or even the police step in to make it happen. I don't have much confidence in the level of help two seniors can give each other once even one of them truly needs help.
Unless you just mean help with the rent.
Overall, I think a healthy trend might be seniors renting out to young and physically capable people who are around enough to be able to help. Or even doing it the way that seems to have been forgotten in modern western society -- by multiple generations living together and helping each other out, instead of everyone being isolated from each other.
DF, I was indicating rent, plus some companionship and support. Not physical handling. Most people can't handle that in normal life. Likewise, there are many housing developments specifically for seniors, providing several forms of support, and typically at 3 levels of support depending upon how well the persons can get along on their own. In either case, if something does happen, there is someone else around to call for outside help. In my post, I was just raising different possibilities for down the road. Eg, my sister knows an elderly woman living in a good sized house whose husband just passed. A couple of roommates would probably be welcome as time goes on.
Also, being a wanderer doesn't have to last forever. What I have noticed in the "regular" RV world is that, people will retire, buy the big expensive RV, travel around for 3 or 5 years mostly staying in RV parks with full hookups and high cost, then one of them decides they've had enough of footloose freedom, and they'll settle down and buy a house somewheres. It's a natural transition. Everyone can make their own choices.
Speaking of which .... this has been a good thread, although it appears that Deb_A has decided on "comfort". I imagine the thought of pooping in a plastic bag doesn't go well with a lot of people. (and I notice that a bunch of Bad Dogs immediately apologized too for being Bad Dogs).
Also, being a wanderer doesn't have to last forever. What I have noticed in the "regular" RV world is that, people will retire, buy the big expensive RV, travel around for 3 or 5 years mostly staying in RV parks with full hookups and high cost, then one of them decides they've had enough of footloose freedom, and they'll settle down and buy a house somewheres. It's a natural transition. Everyone can make their own choices.
Speaking of which .... this has been a good thread, although it appears that Deb_A has decided on "comfort". I imagine the thought of pooping in a plastic bag doesn't go well with a lot of people. (and I notice that a bunch of Bad Dogs immediately apologized too for being Bad Dogs).
DLTooley
Well-known member
If your income is low getting on the waitlist for housing is important. It can take 3-5 years. Be very wary of which projects you apply for. There are more bad than good. A section 8 is best as those can be used for private market housing and are portable.
Dingfelder
Well-known member
QinReno said:
I see. As a guardian/conservator for the elderly and living in a neighborhood where almost everyone is over 70 myself,I see people struggling with these issues all the time. I am probably over-reactive by this time to the problems of people unwilling to face the facts about their decline and therefore not learning to deal with it productively. So although I don't always tell the neighbors what I think about some of their bad decisions, when the opportunity arises to do it in a way that isn't counter-productive, I usually try to steer them toward having reasonable expectations.
We do have one neighbor planning to move out after about 20 years on her very nice horse property. Her husband developed a significant back problem and they are both getting too old to want to do so much landscaping, gardening, and animal-tending every day. But I certainly see it being done the other way every day -- people might keep responsibilities that have become over-ambitious as time catches up with them, and then are either miserable and/or exhausted by the time they get through their daily chores, or resentful that their kids aren't spending their lives coming over and doing it for them. They can't or don't want to keep up with what they've got, but don't want to cut back or re-plan it either. They might have trouble remembering things, but once they feel that has truly set in, the idea of putting a note on the refrigerator comes to terrify them because it's no longer an innocuous thing most everybody does, but an admission of loss.
People, especially the elderly, in my experience, really resist change and admitting decline. Instead, they might start to invent ever less likely ways of rationalizing things, though. You really have to wonder why young people talk so quickly and quietly, and what's going on with your car that made you drive it in the wrong gear or into your garage door or a ditch. And sometimes a person just has to ask himself, Why on earth are the police following me on a high-speed chase?
I have long realized you are a conservator. However, as someone from the other side of the aisle, I obviously want to keep my freedom for "as long as I am able". No doubt true of most people. But it's all a process, and one day all of us will have to "face the raven" (reference to Dr Who). There are some things that cannot be fixed or reversed.Dingfelder said:
So my point was that, just because said elderly woman had lost her husband doesn't necessarily mean it's time for the nursing home. Some need it and some don't. If someone is to the point of not being able to care for themselves then that's one thing, but if someone is basically healthy and still has their wits about them, it's another thing. And obviously not everyone living alone in a house due to passing of their partner is in their 80s, in any case. For my part, I've never had use for a gun, but I plan to get one before the social workers come for me (and I'm not indicating which direction I'll shoot - JK).
That of course is the big daydream. Everyone hopes they'll be doing well up until the very end, and then when it happens it'll happen very fast and in a painless manner. Probably not at all close to the reality.LivGolden said:
QinReno said:
Yes, it's a gamble. I've lost each family member and only one lingered. One by one left with no warning. Knowing that each had adventure and longing and then watching one loved one go with no longing for originality or experience but only to please others- not herself haunts me but in different ways. Only one died with a hefty bank account and no joy, while the others died with nothing- only adventure. Since, I have tried to find a healthy balance. There's no one left to worry over or to leave anything to so I spend as I can and or please but then there is that "Will I live beyond my 'means' dilemma..., it's a gamble. But it's human.
Dingfelder
Well-known member
QinReno said:
I'm not trying to argue with you or anything; just making some points and observations of my own.
Although the gun thing -- that's scary. I read a little while ago about a mother who shot and killed her son because he and his wife couldn't take care of her in their home anymore and were going to move her into a professional home. She said something like, "You ruined my life, so I'm going to ruin yours." I think she killed his wife too.
I guess the years they spent taking care of her didn't count ...
The hardest part might be that it's not just the ability that goes, but the judgment.
So many older people wind up alone with no visitors and no one to speak for them in the courts besides the state. Often it isn't that their kids are self-absorbed and callous, but that they have been systematically alienated as a parent's judgment and personality deteriorates along with their body. After a while there may be no one left willing to take the abuse.
That might be the thing that becomes our own biggest problem when we begin the more serious phases of our decline -- the lack of judgment to admit it and come to terms with how much it negatively affects our outlook, decisions and behavior. Not having no family or friends but alienating the ones we have. I don't dread not being the athlete or intellect I once was (already the case on both) so much as not being the soul.
I wouldn't mind winding up being the one shooting myself. I just wouldn't want to wind up being the person shooting someone else. And by the time things get really bad, I might not be able to tell why both weren't perfectly acceptable.
Well, since I've nothing much to do today, I'll chime in here, also. 
Sometimes, it's not even about age- it's about how society perceives you and your situation. Some folks and agencies may believe because you are "on the road" that you are a danger to yourself. Not being in the "norm" confuses others and they react. You may not be in any "decline" but if the powers-that-be determine you are not in line with the status quo, you may end up being "taken care of"---"for your own good".
Be careful.
Sometimes, it's not even about age- it's about how society perceives you and your situation. Some folks and agencies may believe because you are "on the road" that you are a danger to yourself. Not being in the "norm" confuses others and they react. You may not be in any "decline" but if the powers-that-be determine you are not in line with the status quo, you may end up being "taken care of"---"for your own good". Be careful.
Yeah, I was debating whether to expurgate the gun bit. Besides the 40,000 gun murders every year in this country, I'm sure that there are 1000s of old folk who kill themselves that way every year. Of course, there is always a question of how far gone their minds are at the time. You (generically) can't save everyone from themselves through legislation.
5M people with dementia in the US, 70% being Alzheimers, and 40,000+ committing suicide.... Interestingly, I would have thought the last number would be a lot higher.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-suicide-epidemic_us_59b0439ce4b0c50640cd641f
https://braintest.com/dementia-stats-u-s-worldwide/
5M people with dementia in the US, 70% being Alzheimers, and 40,000+ committing suicide.... Interestingly, I would have thought the last number would be a lot higher.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-suicide-epidemic_us_59b0439ce4b0c50640cd641f
https://braintest.com/dementia-stats-u-s-worldwide/
max+sophia
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Hi Jackson, I would add to "frame of mind" one's current situation. Living the pampered life? Unable to part with belongings?Jacksonricher said:
Here, in a big house, I mainly use the smallest room on the 1st floor. Kids all grown, and only 5 pound Sophia to care for. This room could be transported ANYWHERE, which is what I intend to do. See my thread on Methuselah Remodel, and even 'tho some may think my mods excessive, unneeded, I would only be providing for comfort and environment as I have done here.
Sure it is, if you're willing to take control and decide for yourself when the time comes.QinReno said:
Does not need to be out of sadness or despair, just say, OK time to go.
Harold and Maude is one of my favorite films, have watched it every year with all three of my crops of spawn from a very young age.
I recently watched a netflix DVD about this very thing - except that she was "walking". The kids put her in the old folks home, but she had other ideas. I rated it as good, but it didn't make much money. Luckily, Tom (Pete in the movie) gave her some bear spray, and she used it on a couple of bad guys. Good for her.LivGolden said:Well, since I've nothing much to do today, I'll chime in here, also.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2515164/
Power of attorney can be a bad thing in the wrong hands. My sister is a lawyer, and when our folks were near the end, she did some things I still disagree with a few years later. The possibility of 4th stage dementia to me is the end of the line (hmmm, maybe I'll buy that gun now, while I still can. Tell my sister I have it - sorry DF).
Dingfelder
Well-known member
Unfortunately this phase of life still provokes so much more fear than acceptance.
I think it's a problem in modern societies especially, which tend to have separated families, look at old age with disrespect at the very least, and on death with horror. There's very little acceptance anywhere along the line except for not just youth but perpetual youth. We've alienated ourselves thoroughly from the full round of the life cycle, and sooner or later that usually comes back to haunt us.
I wish we were in general much better at accepting what can't be changed and making a healthy peace with it.
I think it's a problem in modern societies especially, which tend to have separated families, look at old age with disrespect at the very least, and on death with horror. There's very little acceptance anywhere along the line except for not just youth but perpetual youth. We've alienated ourselves thoroughly from the full round of the life cycle, and sooner or later that usually comes back to haunt us.
I wish we were in general much better at accepting what can't be changed and making a healthy peace with it.
People like my sister seem to think there should be "guarantees". One wonders what pablum they've reading all of their entire lifetimes. As I get older, I find the tenets of Stoicism appeal to me more and more. Of course, when I brought this up on another thread, the usual funsters around here started quoting that great ascetic Oscar Wilde. I guess better to die with a beer in your hand than wearing a loin cloth in the desert sun.Dingfelder said:
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