Car charger adapter from Walmart almost set my van on fire.

[BigT]

I bought one of those universal DC adapter things from Walmart last week for $15.
I bought it to charge things such as my beard trimmer without having to run a power inverter. 

Since you mention your use of the cord, hopefully my comment is close enough to being on-topic not to get deleted.  :s

Does anyone make a razor or beard trimmer that can be charged straight off of 12 Volts?

 

[SternWake]

I would definitely keep the Powerall, and return that inverter.

UNless you have a large carburated V8, or a diesel engine, it is Very capable to assist in jump starting, and if a smaller engine, it could even start the engine with the main battery disconnected, though I do not recommend doing this.

The powerall is not a large capacity battery though, its ability to jump start, does not give it magical properties regarding storage capacity.

I've no idea how many cycles you can actually use the powerall as a mini house battery before it would become ineffective in its ability to jump start the engine, and say you deplete it to 50%, or its capacity has depleted to just 50%, and you need it to jump start the engine, and it can't help you. These unknown variables would make me hesitant to rely on it for this purpose.

There are all sorts of strategies you can employ using the powerall. My personal preference, in a vehicle without a dedicated large house battery, would be to fully charge the powerall, and store it in the vehicle where it will remain fully charged and as cool as possible, not in the glove box which bakes in the sunlight. That way it will always be there to jump start your engine. I would then use the original, underhood engine battery to recharge the phone/tablet via a USB car charger plugged into the ciggy receptacle. While I despise Ciggy plug receptacles, they are OK for passing just 16 to 20 watts, anything under 40 watts, and they should be OK in most instances

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ias=automotive&field-keywords=usb+car+charger

Now the engine starting battery is not designed to be drawn down deeply, and will not last very long in this usage, if you actually draw it down deeply, however when it requires replacing, a marine battery is significantly more durable in this usage than a regular starting battery, and only slightly more expensive. Much depends non the size of the battery in your engine compartment, because marine batteries do not come in all sizes for an easy swap into every vehicle.

I brought up the UB12120 battery and the other product as the poor man's powerall. As an option for someone who does not own one and is looking for a different solution. It will weigh 15 times more, require it be wired up and fused, and a method determined for recharging it. So, it will be much less convenient than the Powerall which you already own, but it will have twice the electrical storage capacity of the powerall, and when the battery fails, it can be replaced, easily and cheaply.

The UB12120 battery is the battery which comes in many lead acid jumper packs. if it is fully charged and if one carries jumper cables to hook it to their engine battery, it can easily jump start a vehicle too, but the Lithium based powerall likely has the same jumping ability, perhaps even more, and all the convenience built in to that nice ergonomic package.

There is not a right and wrong way to approach this situation. How I would do it is not the only right way, just how I would approach the problem in your situation, given the limitations of the products involved as well as considering the unknowns, such as the Powerall's ability to retain capacity, and its ability to jump start when partially depleted, and or how much capacity has been compromised at the time it is needed for jump starting duties..

The Longevity of the Powerall when it is cycled deeply and often is an unknown. Unless I knew it to be robust and retain its capacity for a long time, I would not trust that it will have the jump starting ability when needed, and perhaps carrying it one might have false confidence in its ability to actually jump start the engine when most needed.

Now if you carry jumper cables and are in an area where someone can help you out, then no big deal, but if you are out in the boonies, goto to start your engine and hear the dreaded click click click of a dead engine starting battery, then bust out the Powerall, and find it cant jump start the engine, well then those jumper cables become useless until someone happens by and can help you, and the Powerall gave you a false confidence.

 

[SternWake]

BigT, do you have an inverter? Since a beard trimmer does not consume much electricity, nor is it run for hours on end, going with a 12v version is not going to save much battery power, such as using a DC to DC car adapter for laptop or USB charging will easily save 15%, and over a longer timespan.

I run full size Wahl clippers off of my inverter, and A smaller travel trimmer runs off of an internal 1.2v Nimh battery. This came with a large wall wart transformer for charging, which is wasteful of space and electricity. I also have a really small Phillips nose hair trimmer which accepts aa batteries, and I run rechargeables in, and have a 12vdc/120vAC charger (nitecore I4v2) than handles most any cylindrical battery, Nimh,Nicad, or Lithium.

I am not aware of any 12v clippers/trimmers, but I have not searched either.

 

[BigT]

No inverter and no plans to install one.  I figured like most of my charging, it would be done while driving, reducing or eliminating draining the battery.  

My searches have so far been fruitless, though I did find this vintage, gyroscope-powered razor.     Kind of a cool system, actually, if it works as advertised. 

http://www.global-merchants.com/home/shaver.htm

 

[SternWake]

http://www.amazon.com/Wahl-5537-180...sr=8-1&keywords=battery+powered+beard+trimmer

Takes AA batteries.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-...=UTF8&qid=1443307547&sr=8-2&keywords=eneloops

http://www.amazon.com/NITECORE-Inte...443307587&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=nitecore+i4v2

The Nitecore charger can work off of 12vDC. Mine did not come with a charging cord for 12vDC, but i had one which works.

 

[surfer]

Panasonic Travel Shaver
Operates using 2 AAA batteries
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Panasonic-Travel-Shaver/10795137

 

[dhawktx]

<snip>
Better yet, cut the damn thing off and learn how to crimp/assemble Anderson powerpoles and stop wasting battery power as heat with a horrid inferior connector which might set your home on fire.
<snip>

Is there a thread, or threads, that shares this info? (noob looking to soak up as much as I can!   )

 

[OnTheWay]

I would definitely keep the Powerall, and return that inverter.

UNless you have a large carburated V8, or a diesel engine, it is Very capable to assist in jump starting, and if a smaller engine, it could even start the engine with the main battery disconnected, though I do not recommend doing this.

<snip>

Thank you very much SternWake!  To clarify, before I return the cig-lighter inverter (which I bought on a short-term TrueValue weekly ad's lost leader sale for $13 but which promptly went back up to its normal pricing), my thought was that the little Peak inverter could be good for just re-charging/topping off the PowerAll while driving (which only has a DC wall plug itself) so that I could, in turn, use the PowerAll's banked power (when not driving) to charge phone or tablet.  Like on an overnight stay somewhere.  So before I return it, you think it's too flaky to keep even for that?  Once I realized it wasn't going to power a hair blower (showing the extent of my e-ignorance), it did seem like it would, at least, be a nifty way to keep the PowerAll topped off.  But if it's likely among "the inherently dangerous" period, then back it goes.  

I'm camping out of a MiniVan, and may go cross-country in it, which is why I'm trying to use these very physically small units.

 

[SternWake]

The powerall link you sent shows a ciggy plug car adapter for charging the unit. I'd use that rather than the inverter you bought and the 110v household plug.

There are basically two types of Inverters, Modified square wave and true/pure sine wave. Some of the MSW inverters only have one or 2 steps in the wave, and this is considered dirty power. Most devices have no issue with it, but some others do not like it at all. These devices not liking MSW inverters are some chargers, or some other delicate electronics. It is impossible to say whether any given product is going to work 'just fine' with a msw inverter, or not at all, or if it will just wear out faster on MSW.

PSW is clean electricity, like what comes out of the wall in a stick and brick. PSW inverters cost significantly more $$.

At 13$ you might as well keep that inverter. Just never try and pass more than ~75 watts through it, unless you bypass the ciggy plug directly to battery terminals.

Monitor anything you use on the cheap MSW inverter for excessive heating.

As far as the Anderson Powerpoles go, There are a lot of you tube videos, which is why I have not done a pictorial on them. Some are better than others check out a few.



The 15/30/45 amp powerpoles all use the same plastic housings, and will mate with each other. The design of the crimps is different. the 15 and 30 amp versions are easy to crimp with a normal dimple crimper, but the 45's are a different animal. I would not recommend a Newbie try to use the 45's without having the special crimping tool they sell for Anderson powerpoles for about 40$



I can get 8 awg wire into the 45amp versions, but some wire destranding is required, and the wire insulation can make achieving the 'click' when the contact is fully seated in the housing, difficult to achieve.

For 10awg wire you basically need the 45's and 12awg might not fit the 30 amp ones without some destranding to reduce diameter.
I've never bothered with the 15's.

 

[29chico]

I did a bit of geeking on the PowerAll jump starter.  Since it does not readily state which lithium chemestry the cells are in the unit, there is a good chance that the cells are lithium cobalt, AKA LiPo in the RC hobby world.

The RC folks prefer LiPo cells because they have the highest energy density, most bang for the weight.  They are also the most likely to go into thermal runaway in a very spectacular way.  I have seen it happen.  Very impressive!  If I was storing or charging a LiPo pack, especially of that capacity, it would be inside a LiPo fireproof RC charging pouch. I would not double up on the pouches while charging to keep the pack from heating up. I would also have it charging in a fireproof area, a large ceramic jar would be ideal, but rater clunky in a van.  For storage I would double up on the fireproof pouches.  The inner pouch would be smaller than the outer pouch. The inner pouch would be inserted so that it's closure flap was at the bottom of the outer pouch.

Also be aware that when stored at full charge the lifespan of the cell is at its minimum, just the opposite of lead acid.  The cells would last longer and be safer at 80% charge and still have plenty of current to jump an engine.

The danger factor is highest when changing, especially since these small lithium jump starters often do not have any provision to top balance the cells.  Balancing LiPo packs is considered crucial in the RC world.  While storing a fully charged LiPo is less hazardous than charging one, it is still a good idea to have it at least in a single fire pouch.

 

[SternWake]

I  was pretty sure these were Lipo packs, the Powerall, Microgravity and the dozens of other similar products now on the market.  The bad reviews on these products are not that it Blew up, but that it quit working.  

  I was assuming  that the BMS would call 80% charged, 100% charged, for the safety factor and that Lithium need not be fully charged like Lead Acid.  that is why I recommended j keeping it at 'full' charge as most of these systems will not actually fully charge lithium.  Tesla vehicles do not allow the batteries to fully charge, but stop it at 85 to 90% or something and call that fully charged.

  Lithium does not really suffer from the peukert factor like lead acid.  They can hold their voltage right till the end it seems, and huge loads do not reduce overall capacity available like lead acid.


Back when these lithium jumper packs first came out I nearly clicked place order many times, as they are Neat, and I do have occasional need for a 12v portable source.

But the impulse purchaser in me lost out to reason.  I know the 12 AH Ub12120 AGM could  jumpstart my engine, I know it can power any  short duration portable needs I might have, i know I can replace it cheaply, and i know I can recharge it properly.  

I know none of those things with Lithium chemistries.  I employ some 18650 cells, some 14500, and I know they can be dangerous.  I've harvested some 18650s from laptop batteries, recycled a few right off the bat, and some others I noticed getting hotter then Normal on the third or 4th recharge, and recycled those too.  

Lead acid can be dangerous for sure, but when Lithium 'Vents with flame'  serious toxic shit can be released and have lifelong health consequences if breathed.  I'm not sure I would feel so safe relying on them, but then again Lipo batteries are in cell phones.  Reports of cell phone fires are pretty rare these days, as are laptop fires. When your phone says 100%, the battery within is actually at 85% or so.  I don't know about the RC world  My RC days ended in the Nicad days, but now  these RC enthusiasts are discharging batteries nearly fully, quickly and perhaps taking this chemistry outside the safer zone, using more of the total available capacity.  I think overdischarging quickly followed by a recharge is the most dangerous time, but am no expert in this battery chemistry.  

The Flameproof bags in which to charge items such as the powerall, might come off as a little alarmist.

Taking precautions is wise indeed.  I do not know Lithium batteries anywhere near as well as Lead acid, and suggest people do further research on them before employing them, cycling them often and deeply.  I certainly hope the Powerall has lots of safety factor built in.  One would think it has to, or there would be class action lawsuits out the yingyang and we would near lots of news reports about their dangers by the alarmist media, as scary sells ads.
  Far too many people have no understanding at all of the possible dangers of lithium cells. It is one more reason I would not personally use the powerall as a mini house battery, but instead as the occasional emergency jumpstarter or emergency USB power source.

But I use my 18650 cells as a portable USB source, and my regular electrical system in my Van is highly unlikely to ever require I have a jumper source.  I would have one to jump other people without having to connect my vehicle to theirs, but I can also electrically isolate the  battery from my vehicle if I had to jump someone else, and they did something stupid like reverse polarity,  They'd fry their own electrical system, not mine.

But then again if jumper cables come near my Vehicle, the other driver is not allowed anywhere near the hood of either vehicle.

i do have to say, that every time I charge my lithium 18650 cells, I do not leave them unmonitored, and have a plan on how to throw the charger out the door, even if I get burnt doing so.  If I cannot be there, I put the charger in a frying pan outside the Van, especially with those laptop harvested cells of dubious initial quality.

My panasonic 18650 NCR18650b cells, I have more confidence in.

 

[OnTheWay]

SternWake:  I did not notice the ciggy plug adapter - maybe it wasn't included or I ignored it but yeah, I'd sure use that to charge the PowerAll on the road vs. the Peak unit.

Why keep the Peak Unit (on sale for $13) if I should be afraid to use it?  Just checking - what would you use it for if you had it for $13 (and, of course, didn't know anything more than I do)?  Good price, but I'm wondering what I would use it for.  If good for something, then yeah, for that price.  I just don't now know what.

<i> There are basically two types of Inverters, Modified square wave and true/pure sine wave. Some of the MSW inverters only have one or 2 steps in the wave, and this is considered dirty power. Most devices have no issue with it, but some others do not like it at all. These devices not liking MSW inverters are some chargers, or some other delicate electronics. It is impossible to say whether any given product is going to work 'just fine' with a msw inverter, or not at all, or if it will just wear out faster on MSW.</i>

Thank you for that.  I understood that!  When you say "...or if it will just wear out faster on MSW" you mean the tablet?  I would not want my tablet's battery to wear out faster... you mean a LOT faster?  Like it would be useless at that point?  (Hopefully not what you meant but I fear it might be.)

<i> As far as the Anderson Powerpoles go, There are a lot of you tube videos, which is why I have not done a pictorial on them. Some are better than others check out a few. </i>

This was the first mention of Powerpoles, I watched video but didn't know what I was watching (sorry to be so ignorant).

<i>I can get 8 awg wire into the 45amp versions, but some wire destranding is required, and the wire insulation can make achieving the 'click' when the contact is fully seated in the housing, difficult to achieve.

For 10awg wire you basically need the 45's and 12awg might not fit the 30 amp ones without some destranding to reduce diameter.
I've never bothered with the 15's. </i>

<i>ngaaaa. </I>  Not sure what any of that means.  No, that sounds like I have a guess...I don't have a clue what any of that means.  I suspect this has to do with the Anderson Powerpoles, and I'm clueless what that's all about.  (NOT a request for roping you into a classroom course on it, but is there some beginner's book I can buy that will tell me some rudimentary basics about amps, aH (or is it Ah), MaH, awg, etc.?  If you don't know, then I'd be happy with a suggested search term for something that would take me to that level.  ;-)

 

[OnTheWay]

<I> Also be aware that when stored at full charge the lifespan of the cell is at its minimum, just the opposite of lead acid.  The cells would last longer and be safer at 80% charge and still have plenty of current to jump an engine.

The danger factor is highest when changing, especially since these small lithium jump starters often do not have any provision to top balance the cells.  Balancing LiPo packs is considered crucial in the RC world.  While storing a fully charged LiPo is less hazardous than charging one, it is still a good idea to have it at least in a single fire pouch. </I>

You mean just sitting in its box under the seat... it could torch itself??  And my vehicle?  Duhhh... there are no cautions in the very small instruction booklet about that.  Seriously??

Did you mean only charge the PowerAll to 80% and not let it charge all the way?  (Pretty sure, but just checkin'.)