Car charger adapter from Walmart almost set my van on fire.

[TMG51]

I bought one of those universal DC adapter things from Walmart last week for $15. The kind where you can select different voltages and put on different heads for different devices. I bought it to charge things such as my beard trimmer without having to run a power inverter. I used it twice and it seemed to work fine - then used it for the third time last night, and after being plugged in for only 1-2 minutes the thing abruptly sparked and started pouring smoke out of the socket. Before I was on my feet the plastic bits had melted off and the metal bits were still inside the socket shorting out. I had to decide which would be quickest before flames occurred - try to dig the metal out of the socket, cut the wires from the back, or disconnect the battery. Because options 2 and 3 would require opening access to the back, I grabbed a plastic object and jammed it into the socket until the metal bits dislodged.

The DC adapter was manufactured with a fuse on the tip, but the fuse never blew. It shorted out on the housing circumventing the fuse entirely. By the time I got the crap out of the socket (only about 10 seconds) the insulation on the wiring to the socket had begun to smoulder and melt.

In retrospect, I should fuse each 12v socket individually. I do have a circuit breaker installed between the battery and all accessories, but clearly this is not sufficient to prevent an accident where current is too great for the wiring in the socket yet not great enough to trip the breaker.

I took the defective adapter back to Walmart and explained how it failed without blowing the fuse. They of course gave zero shits. They did give me a gift card for the amount, which is all I would expect. But my points being - be careful what cheap adapters you buy, and fuse 12v sockets individually.

Now where to buy a better one of those things?

 

[cyndi]

Glad your ok and the damage was minimal

 

[B and C]

I think this is one of the reasons SternWake doesn't like this ciggy plugs to be used.  Yea, a properly sized fuse in that circuit would have prevented that.  Glad everything turned out OK.  A fire in your house would be a very bad thing.

Brian

 

[TMG51]

I think this is one of the reasons SternWake doesn't like this ciggy plugs to be used.  Yea, a properly sized fuse in that circuit would have prevented that.  Glad everything turned out OK.  A fire in your house would be a very bad thing.

Brian

I certainly agree never to install anything on a permanent basis using these 12v style plugs (refrigerator, etc). But for temporary immediate use items there's really no other option.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I certainly agree never to install anything on a permanent basis using these 12v style plugs (refrigerator, etc). But for temporary immediate use items there's really no other option.

Actually, there IS one other option.  It comes from the fishing boat world, where they use those electric trolling motors, some of which can draw as much as 20 or 30 amps.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=trolling+motor+plug&sprefix=Trolling,aps,159

Regards
John

 

[TMG51]

Actually, there IS one other option.  It comes from the fishing boat world, where they use those electric trolling motors, some of which can draw as much as 20 or 30 amps.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=trolling+motor+plug&sprefix=Trolling,aps,159

Regards
John

Well yeah, but that's still not an option because the male end of it doesn't come on every accessory I buy. That's why it's feasible to do something like this or hard wire for a permanent install but for temporary immediate use things it isn't.

 

[SternWake]

It sounds as if the design of the male ciggy plug was able to short out inside the receptacle.

Some of these designs do not fit tightly in the socket, and some sideways pressure on the male plug can cause a direct short when the tip and its threaded internal fuse holder contact the outside ground. It is really a horrible design.

I've had this happen on a 2 amp voltage reducer
Specifically this one:
http://www.amazon.com/PowerLine-Cor...647&sr=8-5&keywords=powerline+voltage+adapter

Twice it blew the fuse on the receptacle with a loud Pop and that fried electronic smell, not the internal fuse of the unit itself. I fixed it with some heat shrink around the metal tip that only allows the spring loaded nipple to touch, and some more heatshrink on the base of the plug so that it cannot wobble side to side.

I use that Powerline voltage plug as a speed control for my interior air circulation fans that can only pull 1 amp maximum. Basically that is all my 7 ciggy receptacles ever power now. I despise them. Ubiquitous junk foisted on the general public.

Glad you caught this issue in time. The Fuse leading to the plug should have blown, despite the bad design of the unit you chose, so some fault lies with how you you wired / fused it. Also beware of cheap fuses. I've had some 'economical' ATC fuses not blow at their ratings, even when greatly exceeded, intentionally.

I could not get one 15 amp ATC fuse I suspected, to blow with a direct short, the wire started melting instead. Same with cheap circuit breakers. Go with Bussman brand. It might save your wheeled home from a fiery death.

Many years Ago when I was more ignorant, I got one of those inexpensive universal adapters for my then 120 watt sony laptop, and both the ciggy plug and something internal in the transformer smoked at the same time. It was only rated for 80 watts though so I was a fool for asking it for 120 watts. I then spent 70$ on a 120 watt adapter and actually still have it, with the original ciggy plug attached. I don't use that laptop anymore, but the plug on that 120 watt version was well made.

Please beware of all ciggy plug designs that wobble in the receptacle. Shine a light inside and see if the tip can short out inside if not perfectly centered.

Better yet, cut the damn thing off and learn how to crimp/assemble Anderson powerpoles and stop wasting battery power as heat with a horrid inferior connector which might set your home on fire.

I am now using a PWR+ brand of laptop adapter(~22$), but after replacing the melted problematic male ciggy plug twice, I just cut it off and now use Anderson powerpoles.

I've been meaning to start a diatribe thread against ciggy plugs and receptacles. I made a 6 foot 10 awg extension cord. One end has a Ciggy receptacle as well as a 45 amp anderson powerpole. When charging a battery over this cable, the 45amp powerpole allows 25% more current to pass initially and 50% more once the ciggy plug heats up. Achieving 125f degrees passing just 5 amps.

I wired the Ciggy plug and receptacle with 10AWG right to the contacts too, and have elastic holding them tightly together.

Ciggy plugs and receptacles insult electricity itself. They are a joke. A ubiquitous joke.

 

[TMG51]

It sounds as if the design of the male ciggy plug was able to short out inside the receptacle.
...a direct short when the tip and its threaded internal fuse holder contact the outside ground.  It is really a horrible design.

I've had this happen on a 2 amp voltage reducer
Specifically this one:
http://www.amazon.com/PowerLine-Cor...647&sr=8-5&keywords=powerline+voltage+adapter

I'll be damned. That's the exact item I experienced this with. Except I paid $15 for it at Walmart. Same issue.

 

[SternWake]

Interesting. With the heatshrink tubing I added to the tip and at the base this unit now has no issues. Even when it shorted out and smelled funny, it still worked, and has been operating for 1.5 years without further issue.

I don;t use the tips provided, i just cut the cord and put it right to my fans

Well one of them is just starting to change speeds on my fan, slightly, when untouched, but the same can also be achieved when moving the adjustment tab within the same detente.

If stepping up voltage is desired, this item works well upto 150 watts:

http://www.amazon.com/10-32V-12-35V...5855&sr=8-2&keywords=150+watt+voltage+booster

If stepping down voltage this works well too:
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Switchin...206001&sr=8-3&keywords=voltage+buck+converter

or this one at 150 watt rating:
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Regulato...206049&sr=8-1&keywords=voltage+buck+converter

One does of course have to adjust voltage with a digital multimeter, but hardwiring one of these can be a solution to all sorts of DC voltages outside the 11 to 15v range.

Do note that one can get the products above at much cheaper prices if they search and get the slow boat from china versions instead of the Prime offerings.


It appears if this different brand name unit has the same poor plug design as the powerline self fired units for a better price. Some heatshrink protecting the tips from direct shorts has worked well for me, but it is a serious design flaw, and should not have to be necessary.

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP..._sim_23_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1QWERNP56XYS0DZCGYQ9

I do own the voltage booster and the first voltage bucker linked in this post. They work well.

I can get 12v computer fans to impersonate hovercraft at 28 volts

My one fan Silverstone AP182, does not like battery charging voltages. the hub gets stinky hot. I use the DROK® LM2596 to limit input voltage to 11v, and it has been hooked up and running continuously for 1 year now.

Remember to fuse to protect the wire, not the device at the end of that wire.

 

[OnTheWay]

This really caught my attention.  If I may impose far enough to ask this, TrueValue had a recent sale on this unit, and I bought it.  Still not opened, should I return it?  The only "regular house plug" thing I was planning on connecting to it might be a laptop (either charging its battery or using it connected with car running) OR to charge my camera's rechargeable battery.  But I admit, that's after I realized I can't run a hair blower from it.  (I know zilch about electrical beyond not to be licking the two metal prong-thingies while pushing it into the wall.)
http://www.amazon.com/Peak-150-Watt...F8&qid=1443224178&sr=1-3&keywords=peak+pkcobm

On another note, I did buy this little power bank/jump starter (different unit) and the little I've used it, it seems to work.  
http://www.amazon.com/PowerAll-PBJS...=UTF8&qid=1443222965&sr=8-1&keywords=PowerAll

It only takes my tablet to about 70% charge and then stops charging it for some reason (this does not make me happy), but it does give it a charge up to that point, from its own banked power, and I've also charged phone with it.  Very good reviews, too.  But is there anything one should know about a unit like this also?  (Product return window is fast disappearing.) 

I do not mean to hijack this thread, only posting about these units because they're so related to the OP's topic, so if I'm out of order throwing another question in, let me know and I shall stand corrected with humble apologies.

 

[TMG51]

No apology necessary. But while we're here complaining about cigarette lighter style plugs, and how inherently bad they are, it seems some are specifically dangerous and the rest are just regular bad. To tell if yours is dangerous I suggest following Stern's advice above. See if it's possible to wiggle the plug in the socket in such a way that the tip contacts the sides of the socket and may short circuit. If so, insulate all but the point on the end.

 

[SternWake]

The inverter that uses a ciggy plug and claims it can pass 150 watts is dangerous. The Ciggy plug cannot handle 150 watts, the wiring leading to it likely cant handle 150 watts.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/hall_of_fail&page=3

Scroll down about half way in the above link

The inverter portion itself, if hooked directly to battery terminals, fused, is likely fine at 150 watts.

but that unit linked is not a good price for 150 watts.

The Powerall lithium jumper pack should be viewed as an emergency jump starter. these type of battery packs can work quite well to assist a weak battery to start an engine. Their ability to provide this jump starter ability, however does not mean it translates into a high capacity battery. Use it to charge, in an emergency a laptop or a USB charged device, but do not think these lithium jumper packs are mega capacity batteries.

They can provide very brief large currents to assist engine starting, or perhaps even start an engine on their own, but they are Not high capacity batteries and should not be treated like it.

Even if the laptop only pulls 75 watts maximum, that inverter you bought will have to pull nearly 90 watts through the ciggy plug receptacle.

if you were to recharge the laptop battery with the laptop OFF through that inverter, you will not have issues with the ciggy plug.

Please do not treat that lithium jumper pack as a house battery or anything but an emergency portable power supply. While lithium batteries generally can produce more cycles, if you do cycle it powering a laptop often, it likely will not have the capacity available to jumpstart your engine when that is required.

 

[LeeRevell]

That little 'jumper pack' is for charging small electronic devices, like your cell phone and  tablet, NOT a car battery.   Decent capacity for that usage.  But it may be lower capacity than your tablet, depending on battery size, so you may be trying to fill a gallon jug with a three quart cup.......

 

[SternWake]

The 16000 Mah rating on that particular linked Powerall lithium jumper pack/ portable power pack is at 5 volts, it does Not equal a 16 AH rating of a 12v lead acid battery and should not be treated as such, and its claimed 16000Mah capacity even at a USB 5 volts is likely unachieveable.

Do not use these as a house battery in place of a real lead acid battery with real usable capacity.

They can and will help you jumpstart your Non Diesel engine battery if you draw that too low.

 

[OnTheWay]

Thanks much! I know zilch about Mah or AH beyond good massage sounds, and watts is where riots occurred when Rodney King got beat up (yes, that bad.) So is there a "written-for 4-year-old" source I can bone up on so I can begin to understand these references and ratings?

In the meantime, my best translation of all this very good sounding info is -- "Return to store, unopened, the ciggy lighter-->150W converter unit because it's likely to toast something." And as for the PowerAll, that "it's okay to use it for USB-charging of phone, tablet and Ipod from its banked power (having been gained from plugging it into a house wall), and I might even get lucky if it jump starts a car." Am I close? If so, does it hurt said tablet, phone or iPod to be charged that way if I'm docked somewhere without power for 2 weeks?

 

[MikeRuth]

This really caught my attention.  If I may impose far enough to ask this, TrueValue had a recent sale on this unit, and I bought it.  Still not opened, should I return it?  The only "regular house plug" thing I was planning on connecting to it might be a laptop (either charging its battery or using it connected with car running) OR to charge my camera's rechargeable battery.  But I admit, that's after I realized I can't run a hair blower from it.  (I know zilch about electrical beyond not to be licking the two metal prong-thingies while pushing it into the wall.)
http://www.amazon.com/Peak-150-Watt...F8&qid=1443224178&sr=1-3&keywords=peak+pkcobm

On another note, I did buy this little power bank/jump starter (different unit) and the little I've used it, it seems to work.  
http://www.amazon.com/PowerAll-PBJS...=UTF8&qid=1443222965&sr=8-1&keywords=PowerAll

It only takes my tablet to about 70% charge and then stops charging it for some reason (this does not make me happy), but it does give it a charge up to that point, from its own banked power, and I've also charged phone with it.  Very good reviews, too.  But is there anything one should know about a unit like this also?  (Product return window is fast disappearing.) 

I do not mean to hijack this thread, only posting about these units because they're so related to the OP's topic, so if I'm out of order throwing another question in, let me know and I shall stand corrected with humble apologies.

I would return that ASAP. even the smallest listed unit at 12,000mah (12Ah) should be able to charge a tablet at least twice from a full charge. 

I'd almost guess that those ports are not truly rated at 2.1Ah

BTW there are tools for this to measure the charge current such as this....
http://www.amazon.com/AboveTEK®-USB-Power-Meter-Current/dp/B00JIFMXSK

I have found as a general rule a lot of tablets and phones charge at about half of there rated capacity. 
My Galxy S5 for example has a 2.6Ah battery and the charge rate never exceeds 1.3Ah and drops off rapidly after it is about 80% charged. 

sorry I'm off topic a bit here.

 

[SternWake]

The USB power meters which can count Mah are more useful than one which only displays only amps and volts.

http://www.amazon.com/Jelly-Comb-Universal-Multi-meter-Voltmeter/dp/B00NHHP06C

My strategy if I had that lithium jumper pack would be to use the vehicle starting battery for charging laptop and USB devices, then use the fully charged Lithium jumper pack to assist engine starting. When the starter battery fails from this abuse, replace it with the largest Marine battery which will fit the original location.

These lithium jumper packs are surprisingly effective at helping to jumpstart a vehicle. They can deliver short bursts of very high amperage. This burst of high amperage does NOT correlate to a high capacity battery which so many people assume.

This battery 2x more capacity, and is also the battery that comes in many of the Lead acid jump starters:

http://www.amazon.com/UPG-D5744-Sea...=UTF8&qid=1443290318&sr=8-2&keywords=ub+12120

Connect this to it:
http://www.amazon.com/Jumper-Triple...&qid=1443290443&sr=1-6&keywords=blue+seas+usb

Recharge battery when it drops to 11.5 volts, replace battery when capacity has been to compromised to be worth the effort of recharging

Less than half the price of the lithium jumper pack, twice as effective for charging USB devcices

 

[OnTheWay]

I would return that ASAP. even the smallest listed unit at 12,000mah (12Ah) should be able to charge a tablet at least twice from a full charge. 

((((...OTW snips quote here as per forum T&T))))

I think I wasn't clear.  It stops charging the tablet when the tablet hits 70% full battery.  But the lithium charger itself still has four of its five capacity lights lit, so it has more power banked for other uses -- it just quits giving it to the tablet when the tablet's at 70%.  Now it's possible that the tablet is telling it to quit (another variable).  But I would like it to charge the tablet to 100%, not just 70%.  I read this same issue mentioned on one of its reviews from someone else, but otherwise it has pretty stellar reviews and they don't appear to be faked ones.

 

[SternWake]

The 70% thing is likely when the powerall's usb output voltage falls below 4.75 volts. This is simply the DC to DC transformer not working well enough to hold voltage above the 4.75v range.

I have this happen with this USB supply:
http://www.amazon.com/Vktech®-Porta...8&qid=1427784516&sr=1-3&keywords=Vktech+18650

These take a single 18650 cell whose voltage when fully charged is 4.2v. So the Vtek has to step up voltage to the 5v range, and there are losses int he conversion, and at some point, when the 18650 battery has fallen to the 3.6v range, it can no longer keep the converted voltage to above the minimum 4.75 volts to charge a USB device whether a phone or tablet.

I have a bunch of 18650 cells I harvested from old laptop batteries, but the panasonic ncr18650b batteries i purchased for about 12$ each, have much more usable capacity and can charge my phone or bluetooth speaker for longer. That Jellycomb USB meter I linked indicates they have a little more than 2x the capacity available for this task, So whole I have many free laptop harvested cells, they are not my first choice when I need a portable USB power supply.

 

[OnTheWay]

The 70% thing is likely when the powerall's usb output voltage falls below 4.75 volts.  This is simply the DC to DC transformer not working well enough to hold voltage above the 4.75v range.

I have this happen with this USB supply:
http://www.amazon.com/Vktech®-Porta...8&qid=1427784516&sr=1-3&keywords=Vktech+18650

These take a single 18650 cell whose voltage when fully charged is 4.2v.  So the Vtek has to step up voltage to the 5v range, and there are losses int he conversion, and at some point, when the 18650 battery has fallen to the 3.6v range, it can no longer  keep the converted voltage to above the minimum 4.75 volts to charge a USB device whether a phone or tablet.

I have a bunch of 18650 cells I harvested from old laptop batteries, but the panasonic ncr18650b batteries i purchased for about 12$ each, have much more usable capacity and can charge my phone or bluetooth speaker for longer.  That Jellycomb USB meter I linked indicates they have a little more than 2x the capacity available for this task, So whole I have many free laptop harvested cells, they are not my first choice when I need a portable USB power supply.

Unfortunately this is above my head (currently), and I'm sorry but I missed your earlier post until now -- probably cross-posted at same time my above one was.  So are you saying the PowerAll unit isn't worth keeping and that the two units you linked above used together would be better for device charging?  And if so, there wouldn't be any jumpstarting capability (something I do want) with those as I understand them, they'd be only for charging devices, yes?