Canadian Living

[GotSmart]

I am seeing a lot of questions on the rules of being a Canadian Citizen.Especially questions about residency and health care laws.

I see a lot of BC plates in Quartzite, so I know the snowbirds fly south.  

Without disrupting current threads, can someone give the pros and cons of living in a country other than the US?

 

[Almost There]

Well hell, one click of a key and I lost a whole long post!

Since I've always figured I was born on the wrong side of the white line on the map and lived stateside for 14 years I'm pretty good at giving you all the cons. Maybe now that I'm collecting as much government handouts for the elderly as they'll give me, I can come up with a few pros eventually.

Cons - our tax rates are horrendous. Tax freedom day for Canadians as a whole was June 10th. Here's a map showing the various tax freedom days for each of the states.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/when-will-your-state-reach-tax-freedom-day-2015

For those that aren't familiar with tax freedom day, it's the date that economists figure that the average Canadian has finally paid all the taxes charged by all the different levels of government ranging from income tax, sales tax, property tax and fees levied for different things like licenses etc. etc. etc. Before that date every penny of money earned goes to the government.

I'll try my hardest to stay out of the discussion on 'universal' health care. My soapbox gets worn out...
Let's just say that I don't think it's the best thing since white bread and leave it at that!

Con: We got metric system kinda shoved down our throats in 1970. It's created a world divided by age. I fought with my phone until it now shows me the temperature in Fahrenheit. My younger friends tell me the temp in Celsius and I head for winter gear...  

Our stores to this day show the price of meat in legal terms of kilograms in the small print. The large print still shows me the price per pound. The sticker however is only in metric which means that I often overcook the roast (not really, my math skills are good... ) Lumber is still priced in feet and the paint container has 3.64 L in it. Plywood is 4 x 8 sheets but is marked in mm for thickness - go figure that one out!! I carry a tape measure!!

Con: Our money - everyone makes fun of it, even ourselves. First they got rid of the dollar bill - loonies took their place. So named because they had a picture of a loon on one side - a wonderful bird to be sure but the metal coin sucks. Businesses paid millions of dollars to convert their coin operated machines. Next came the Toonie - named because it rhymes with loonie.

Both are heavier than hell, wear out pants pockets if you carry too many of them. I toss mine in a jar, roll them and take them to the bank. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've used them anywhere except at the laundromat since I came back to Canada. My kind of rebellion...

Next came plastic money - no not your bank card - our money can now be washed in the laundry without damage but don't leave it on the dash or it will melt. And if you think that new US bills stick together when you get them from the bank, you should try our stuff!

Then they discontinued the penny. Well except for legally. When you write a check or pay a bill online or with your credit card, you still pay down to the penny. When you use cash, the stores have to round things off, either up or down. Again the business owner took the hit on all the programming changes and accounting for it all.

Umm, I think I'll quit for now before I lose another post. I'm sure I'll think of more as time goes on!!

Signed - A misfit Canadian

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I've never understood the whole Canadian thing about having a Royal Family, and Crown lands, and all that.  Didn't you people get the memo from Tom Paine? 

Regards
John

 

[Almost There]

I've never understood the whole Canadian thing about having a Royal Family, and Crown lands, and all that.  Didn't you people get the memo from Tom Paine? 

Regards
John

What memo was that??....

You've got to understand the initial emigration to each of the different land areas to understand why we ended up with a Royal family, crown lands and all.

Puritans fled England because of religious beliefs - they ended up populating the eastern coastline of what is now the US. Then you had the Boston Tea fiasco.

Upper Canada was populated by colonists who were loyal to the King and were sent here (and rewarded) to populate the land.

Hence we've always been a more peaceful bunch as opposed to those radicals who wanted to break free!


History of 2 countries reduced to a couple of sentences....

Seriously, Canadians for the large part just sigh and take it when the government does stupid things. Y'all would go ballistic if someone in government tried to tell you that they were getting rid of the dollar bill and replacing it with a coin!

About the only thing both countries did in common was to force their way onto land that was already occupied by a peoples who thought we came in peace!

 

[TMG51]

I've heard tell of another side-effect of your coinage, perhaps you can confirm or deny: Because the dollar denomination is a piece of metal, "performing girls" on stage get pelted with their tips.

I've never been to a gentlemen's club north of the 48, so I cannot speak to this rumor's legitimacy.

 

[Almost There]

I've heard tell of another side-effect of your coinage, perhaps you can confirm or deny: Because the dollar denomination is a piece of metal, "performing girls" on stage get pelted with their tips.

I've never been to a gentlemen's club north of the 48, so I cannot speak to this rumor's legitimacy.

Neither have I   so I can't speak to the rumours' legitimacy!

You'll have to talk to one of the guys on board here for that information.

However, if I've got it anywhere near right, inflation and the cost of living has it that it's now a whole lot more than loonies and toonies in tips....

 

[Canine]

Canada has a very different idea of self defense. There are times when defending yourself using justifiable force can make you a criminal yourself. You can't have pepper spray for self defense, etc., etc. That reason alone would keep me from emigrating the U.S.

In the U.S. warrants are required to do a search, but in Canada not so much. The U.S. is starting to permit unauthorized searches, but we still fight it. Searches like no knock raids, NSA phone call database, gun registration, stop and frisk, random inland citizenry checks, etc. are becoming more frequent; in that respect we are becoming more like Canada.

What is interesting is that Canada has a Constitutional right to vote with some specific exceptions. The U.S. does not have the right to vote, so that is a big plus for Canada. Many people extremely strongly disagree with me about the U.S. having a right to vote, but when I challenge them to show me in the U.S. Constitution where that right is, they cannot show me.

 

[Almost There]

Canada has a very different idea of self defense. There are times when defending yourself using justifiable force can make you a criminal yourself. You can't have pepper spray for self defense, etc., etc. That reason alone would keep me from emigrating the U.S.

Not really, legality of pepper spray aside, which in any case varies by state in the US. Here's a rather definitive article on what you can and can't do.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/self-defence-what-s-acceptable-under-canadian-law-1.1229180

In the U.S. warrants are required to do a search, but in Canada not so much. The U.S. is starting to permit unauthorized searches, but we still fight it. Searches like no knock raids, NSA phone call database, gun registration, stop and frisk, random inland citizenry checks, etc. are becoming more frequent; in that respect we are becoming more like Canada.

Actually, we probably have more safeguards than US does.

Here's a 'primer' from the Canadian equivalent of the NRA

https://nfa.ca/resource-items/search-warrants-police-are-your-door-what-do-you-do

What is interesting is that Canada has a Constitutional right to vote with some specific exceptions. The U.S. does not have the right to vote, so that is a big plus for Canada. Many people extremely strongly disagree with me about the U.S. having a right to vote, but when I challenge them to show me in the U.S. Constitution where that right is, they cannot show me.

Not sure how to decipher this one, our voting rights are in a lot of ways just as screwed up as any one elses.

One of the cons IMO is that the federal government is talking (they'll never get to it this term of office) about allowing certain persons who are NOT citizens to be able to vote! Just plain wrong but then I'm way way conservative on a whole bunch of issues that have to do with stuff like this.

 

[Almost There]

Here's an interesting article from last spring about the gray/grey area surrounding pepper spray!

Canada:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/02/05/rules-confusing-around-bear-pepper-spray

And a summary of the laws in the US

http://bestpepperspray.net/pepper-spray-laws/

I have bear spray but carry it in the bush, not in town. The bad part was that when I flew to BC for vacation last year, I couldn't fly with it and certainly wasn't going to buy another can (it's fairly pricey) just for 2 weeks - good thing the kids g/f didn't like hiking in the bush much...

Both countries regulate it and with good reason.

 

[eDJ_]

Are you also planning to work in another country, such as Canada ?

 

[GotSmart]

First as to voting rights, the 26th amendment clarified the right to vote.

 The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Before that it was in the "states Rights" department on who could and could not vote. 

Second, I was hoping for some discussion on health care.  otherwiose with the exception of a loonie sidetrack   this had been an excellent thread.  

 

[Almost There]

 

Second, I was hoping for some discussion on health care.  otherwiose with the exception of a loonie sidetrack   this had been an excellent thread.  

Okay, I'll try hard not to get on too high a soapbox with my views on Canadian healthcare.

What do you want to know?

 

[GotSmart]

How good is it?  Coverage, waiting period?

I know the English have rotten dental, as do the Americans...

 

[Almost There]

Well, dental isn't included in the health care plan in any province unless you're on government disability or what used to be called welfare - it's euphemistically called Ontario Works now.... . And then it's limited to children of the recipient.

How good is it you ask?

To understand how good or not so good it is, it's necessary to look at the whole health care system.

We don't have 'for profit hospitals' anymore, nor 'charity' hospitals.

Canadian healthcare is a system that has evolved over many years. It started off as a means of supplementing private insurance premiums for the lower income families. Then the government decided that handling the insurance of it all was best done by them rather than by private insurance companies. Next came regulating how much Doctors would be paid for procedures - we lost a lot of good medical people over that one - at one point they were fleeing over the border to the US at an alarming rate. Then they took over running the hospitals.

Over time government involvement has grown to the point that it totally encompasses all facets of the health care system.

And I mean every facet - hospitals are regulated as to how they're staffed and equipped. Funding for capital acquisition is either raised by the public and/or government funded but even when the money is raised, say for a piece of equipment, the government can veto it's installation because they essentially own the hospital and pay for all the operating costs.

Funding for some care is literally segregated from general operating funds and parceled out according to some whim of a bureaucrat. This has resulted in uneven distribution of care levels and long wait times for certain procedures. There are district quotas in place for various things which leads to inequality. For example - cataract surgery - each area of the province was given a somewhat arbitrary quota for how many procedures could be done in that area. Once that quota was expended, no more could be done in that quota 'year'. Some areas ran out within a few months, others never filled their quota....people in the 'ran out of them' area sat waiting, with their eyesight deteriorating while surgical suites sat unused.

Because of financial limitations, procedures like knee and hip replacements have long, long wait lines.

Each province is mandated to handle their provinces health care so there are disparities between the provinces as to what is covered. There's a big controversy going on right now about cancer treatments. There have been advances in oral drugs that fight cancer cells in a way that is far superior to certain IV treatments. BUT, big BUT some of the drugs can cost over $3,000 a month. Unless a patient has unlimited resources or a supplemental drug plan to cover the cost, doctors are having to choose less efficient treatment plans because while the health care system in Ontario pays for in hospital treatment and the drugs, it doesn't cover prescription medications that are taken at home. BC on the other hand covers some of those drugs. It's actually very cost inefficient because an at home patient taking $3,000 a month in drugs is a whole lot less costly in the long run than one who has to be hospitalized.

My biggest beef with 'universal health care' is that I've never seen a government be able to run anything efficiently and  cost effectively - have you?

And my biggest 'get on the soapbox' is to people who say 'oh, you Canadians have *FREE* health care - trust me it's not free, it's not even cheap! Take a look at our tax bills!

Gotta run, back later!

 

[Canine]

First as to voting rights, the 26th amendment clarified the right to vote.

 The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Still doesn't state that we have a right to vote. It indirectly and strongly supports voting, but does not give the right to vote. If that statement were true, then felons 18 years of age or older could vote. Some states allow felons who have completed their time to vote again; some states disallow felons who have been convicted of a crime to vote at all anymore. It appears to me as if states can revoke that privilege as they see fit within some boundaries such as women being allowed to vote. You have to register to vote, but you don't have to register to have free speech. Some states disallow same day registration which further restricts the voting privilege.

 

[Canine]

Almost There, Canada does allow self defense, but in a narrow interpretation. Canadians can't carry knives, pepper spray, or "any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person..." Some places in the U.S. are worse than Canada that's for sure, I wouldn't carry a pointy handled paintbrush in my back pocket if I were in New Jersey. In Montana I have carried a rifle with me and no one has ever said anything. I've also been in a couple confrontations and have been pulled over a few times with a handgun on my person and have not had one problem with it. We can also have pepper spray, and the only restrictions are you need to be 18 and can't take it into the courthouse and similar places. Otherwise, we can buy and use pepper spray without restriction, as it should be. Canada does seem to be improving in this area since the last time I looked, so that is refreshing to see.

One example in the U.S. where the Federal government abused its power was a situation recently where a man in Glacier National Park shot a Grizzly Bear in self defense. First, Grizzlies are and endangered species and are protected, so it is illegal to shoot them. We recently have been allowed to have the right to carry a gun in National Parks, but it is illegal to discharge a weapon in the park. Shooting within city limits is illegal, too, but when done in self defense, it is legal. Same with the Parks, but since it wasn't specifically stated in the law, the Feds decided to prosecute him. The man got off, but not after an expensive legal battle. The Federal government can sue you, but if they lose, they don't have to pay your legal fees.

I've heard on the radio here that they want to knowingly give driver's licenses to illegal aliens! I can only hope that it is a massive sting to capture all of those criminals and ship them back. Then let them immigrate legally and ethically. We have lots of weird stuff over hear, too.

In regards to the coin money, maybe the metal detectorists have a strong lobby! Lol. That's about the only group I could see that would like to see more coinage.

 

[Almost There]

Almost There, Canada does allow self defense, but in a narrow interpretation. Canadians can't carry knives, pepper spray, or "any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person..." Some places in the U.S. are worse than Canada that's for sure, I wouldn't carry a pointy handled paintbrush in my back pocket if I were in New Jersey. In Montana I have carried a rifle with me and no one has ever said anything. I've also been in a couple confrontations and have been pulled over a few times with a handgun on my person and have not had one problem with it. We can also have pepper spray, and the only restrictions are you need to be 18 and can't take it into the courthouse and similar places. Otherwise, we can buy and use pepper spray without restriction, as it should be. Canada does seem to be improving in this area since the last time I looked, so that is refreshing to see.

It's not as narrow an interpretation as you might like to think! If you've a permit to carry a weapon like a gun, you certainly can. Again, not in certain buildings like the courthouse and federal buildings. A whole lot of our legislation is mirrored on the various US legislation. Mostly it's an interpretation of the law...if I'm carrying dog spray out on my daily walk and a dog attacks me, I can defend myself using the dog spray (it's a mild pepper spray). If I carry it in to the bar and use it on some drunk then it's a weapon! Same goes for taking it in to the courthouse! Oh and it should be noted that Mace and Pepper spray are two different things, don't confuse them. Our rules about who can carry a handgun are a little stricter I believe. We've recently been through a big brouhaha over long guns. The federal government tried to establish a registry for them, lost a Supreme Court battle over it, tried to destroy the records but were stopped by an injunction sought by Quebec because they wanted their portion of the records for a provincial registry. Last I heard it was tied up in court again....one government body suing another, both at the taxpayers expense...sigh!

One example in the U.S. where the Federal government abused its power was a situation recently where a man in Glacier National Park shot a Grizzly Bear in self defense. First, Grizzlies are and endangered species and are protected, so it is illegal to shoot them. We recently have been allowed to have the right to carry a gun in National Parks, but it is illegal to discharge a weapon in the park. Shooting within city limits is illegal, too, but when done in self defense, it is legal. Same with the Parks, but since it wasn't specifically stated in the law, the Feds decided to prosecute him. The man got off, but not after an expensive legal battle. The Federal government can sue you, but if they lose, they don't have to pay your legal fees.

That's where crowdfunding comes in handy! We too have overzealous prosecutors!

I've heard on the radio here that they want to knowingly give driver's licenses to illegal aliens! I can only hope that it is a massive sting to capture all of those criminals and ship them back. Then let them immigrate legally and ethically. We have lots of weird stuff over hear, too.

I would like to stay away from a discussion on illegal aliens for a couple of reasons. The inequities of both Canada and the US immigration laws being one - I'm not back living in Canada because I wanted to be! And secondly because it usually degrades into some hate mongering about specific races or countries of origin and I like being able to be here on this forum so I won't take part in any of it.

But I will say that allowing all persons living in a country to obtain a drivers license, regardless of their immigration status, is not necessarily a bad thing. The alternative is having those without proper documentation being forced to drive without a valid license, which means that they cannot obtain insurance. I'd rather have everyone pass a drivers test and have insurance than not. A license to drive and immigration policies should have nothing to do with each other IMO.

In regards to the coin money, maybe the metal detectorists have a strong lobby! Lol. That's about the only group I could see that would like to see more coinage.

Naw, nice try though, it was done as a 'cost saving' issue. Paper money, particularly the lower denominations wear out quickly and has to be replaced. Coins, on the other hand, last practically forever. So while the initial cost of minting them is higher, the per year of life cost is drastically reduced. You'd have another Boston Tea Party on your hands if the American government ever tried to take paper dollar bills out of circulation and replace them with a coin, particularly if the only reason put forth was saving the cost of printing. Economy be damned, we want our dollar bills would be the headline and the chant....

 

[flying kurbmaster]

There are many reasons to experience living in another country, being an immigrant teaches you many things, it is not easy living outside ones culture even if the changes are subtle. like Canada and US. Most civilized countries have had gun control and public health care for many many years now, neither are perfect but still much better then not having either. They work, and it does not limit your freedom anymore then having to drive the speed limit. I don't think you should limit your discussion to these topics as far as metric, another system that makes sense, it hasn,t worked in Canada because they never really changed over, they did it half assed and continue to do so, Australia and New Zealand changed over about the same time and they don' t have issues, anyone who has made a real effort to convert or learn would never think of going back. It should be adopted internationally it is easier and was not invented by some King who decided that measurement should be based on the size of one of his body parts for ever more. When something is better why not change that is what living in other countries can teach you a different way of doing things,
as far a coinage most countries are eliminating the small coins ,NZ doesn't have nickels anymore what is the point they don't buy anything.... dollars coins are the new quarters

 

[GotSmart]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.[/font]



Canine
Still doesn't state that we have a right to vote. It indirectly and strongly supports voting, but does not give the right to vote. If that statement were true, then felons 18 years of age or older could vote. Some states allow felons who have completed their time to vote again; some states disallow felons who have been convicted of a crime to vote at all anymore. It appears to me as if states can revoke that privilege as they see fit within some boundaries such as women being allowed to vote. You have to register to vote, but you don't have to register to have free speech. Some states disallow same day registration which further restricts the voting privilege.

We are not allowed to debate this on this forum because of Bob's rules.  Sorry, I would love to...

 but we should stick to the Canadian subject.  

I as well as many other members are extremely curious about our neighbor  to the North.

 

[Brian_and_Jesse]

Here's an interesting article from last spring about the gray/grey area surrounding pepper spray!

Canada:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/02/05/rules-confusing-around-bear-pepper-spray

And a summary of the laws in the US

http://bestpepperspray.net/pepper-spray-laws/

I have bear spray but carry it in the bush, not in town. The bad part was that when I flew to BC for vacation last year, I couldn't fly with it and certainly wasn't going to buy another can (it's fairly pricey) just for 2 weeks - good thing the kids g/f didn't like hiking in the bush much...

Both countries regulate it and with good reason.

Use ladies' spray perfume, it works just as well, and has the added benefit (because of its alcohol content) of being a great lock de-icer.

Blessings,

Jesse.