Can I get a little design help?

[ibuzzard]

I am setting up an auxiliary battery system in my vintage truck and camper shell and am about to buy, finally, a Battle Born deep cycle battery. I have pre wired a isolating solenoid , using a fuse between the truck’s battery and solenoid, and one after the solenoid and before the soon to be installed Battle Born, which will be located in the back of the camper shell in a storage compartment. I also have a Blue Sea 12 volt 12 circuit fuse block to take 12 volt circuits powered by the new battery. At this point, I have installed a fantastic fan, am planning on a few 12 sockets , a light or two, and USB ports for charging our devices. I need help planning designing for a couple future additions, but I want to install/pre-wire now, if it is feasible or advantageous to do so.

1) I would like to add solar as soon as possible, to charge the battery while in camp, but not sure at this point if I would use a portable panel, or add panels on the roof of my camper shell. How, and using what/which components, can I add now, and where in the system do I add them, in anticipation of this future addition/modification?

2) I also have a small ultra quiet Yamaha inverter generator I’d like to be able to use while in camp, to charge the battery if it is cloudy. For this, I want to install an inlet port on the exterior of the shell.

I was not really intending to add an invertor for 120 volt loads, but if that is highly recommended, would consider it.

I want to do the install myself. I need advice, also, whether it would just be better to set this up now as a simple auxiliary system, modifying in the future, or doing the pre-wiring for future projects now?

Can anyone help me out, hopefully by telephone and email, in choosing the best components, wiring set-up, and etc.? It’s a lot, I know, I could pay you for your advice, recommendations, and drawings.

I live in Mariposa Ca, and thank you in advance.

Steve

 

[tx2sturgis]

It sounds like you will be adding a few solar panels, so you need those plus a lithium compatible solar charge controller.

You will also need some type of onboard charger if you want to be able to keep the lithium battery charged on cloudy days or during heavy usage, by plugging in the genset. We also need information about your food storage plans (ice chest, 12v fridge, beef jerky in a bag?)

Finally you will need an inverter if you think you might need to occasionally plug in a 120v appliance, tool, power washer, (rock tumbler?) sewing machine, laptop charger...that sort of thing.

In order to narrow the recommendations, we need to know a bit more about your intended use for the camper (fulltime, part time, occasional weekends, etc) your typical power demands, (minimal? or super heavy duty PC gamer 24/7, 55"TV, charging an e-bike, etc).

We might need some idea of your ability to DIY and maybe even your budget...(minimal, average, unlimited, etc).

So did I answer your questions with more questions? I'm good at that!

In other words please tell us more about what you intend to do with this camper.

 

[frater secessus]

I am setting up an auxiliary battery system in my vintage truck and camper shell and am about to buy, finally, a Battle Born deep cycle battery. I have pre wired a isolating solenoid ,

Forewarning: there may be an onslought of people repeating the myth that one must use a DC-DC charger for this.

BTW, I had a camper shell rig at one point and liked it a lot.

Battle Born, which will be located in the back of the camper shell in a storage compartment. I also have a Blue Sea 12 volt 12

Prewiring is a gift to your future self. I added in a couple extra runs that have come in quite handy.

1) I would like to add solar as soon as possible, to charge the battery while in camp, but not sure at this point if I would use a portable panel, or add panels on the roof of my camper shell.

If one has to choose, IMO mounted > portable. If you can store portables, having a mounted main array and a portable or two can increase flexibility in where you can camp.

other considerations

How, and using what/which components, can I add now, and where in the system do I add them, in anticipation of this future addition/modification?

You could mount the panels and leave them unhooked. You could mount a solar charge controller and leave it unhooked or connected to the battery bank.

I'd probably keep researching/planning in lieu of purchasing, as it's possible to end up with mismatched gear if your plan changes.

2) I also have a small ultra quiet Yamaha inverter generator I’d like to be able to use while in camp, to charge the battery if it is cloudy. For this, I want to install an inlet port on the exterior of the shell.

Yeah, shore power ports are easy to install and very useful. Plug in like an RV!

I was not really intending to add an invertor for 120 volt loads, but if that is highly recommended, would consider it.

I'd avoid inverters if possible/practical. Might be handy to have a small PSW inverter around to run oddball electronics.

You can get help for free here in the forum; keeping it in public means other (and future) members can benefit. If you need a consultant @jimindenver is the local professional.

 

[ibuzzard]

Thank you for fast replies. My small inverter generator has a 12 volt receptacle, not sure of its specs as I am not at the house now. The truck , used daily, will see only occasional camping duties as we explore the Sierras where we live. No large loads, just lights, ports to plug in our devices, a fantastic fan, and a portable fan for warm nights, also made by Fantastic Fans, I think. Anyway, don’t anticipate much else beyond this. I do not have any budget restrictions, I have wife restrictions - don’t we all. I can do the work myself , I am a retired sparky. I want the best components, thinking of Victron stuff, and want to have a simple way to monitor what the battery is holding. I am wanting quality simplicity, not cheapness. I also dread being inundated with multitudes of disagreeing respondents, but it could happen anyway, I accept that.I am hoping I could just use portable solar panels without roof top panels, not sure of an easy way to interface that with the auxiliary Battle Born. Thanks.

 

[frater secessus]

hoping I could just use portable solar panels without roof top panels, not sure of an easy way to interface that with the auxiliary Battle Born.

You can.

isolator -> battle born
portable solar panels -> solar charge controller -> battle born

The only downside is deploying and picking up portables can be a PITA. Not terrible if you camp in 14d stretches, but annoying if you move every day or two.

To simplifiy deplayment you can put a solar panel power port (example, not necessarily a recommendation) in the side of the shell just like for shore power. The example is SAE, and I would verify the amp rating of any connector before purchase. So it would be:

portable solar panels -> port -> solar charge controller -> battle born

I bought a port for solar but deploy my portables so infrequently I've never installed it.

 

[ibuzzard]

Thanks frater. We will likely only ever be camping for 3-5 day long weekend trips. Being the lazy, er, efficient person that I am, guess I’ll opt for one largish panel on my roof. Based on the 100 ah battery I will have, and the listed loads, do you have a recommendation for sizing the solar panel?

 

[Burbanlife]

I am only going to say Battle Born lifepo4 are known for good quality , but comes at a HEFTY $$$$ I can tell you I have been using the zooms lifepo4 100 AH batts now for about 1 year and they are as good as the first day they arrived. I have 3 total. 1 in my van and 2 in my converted cargo trailer and I have 300 watts of solar on van roof rack and 500 watt on cargo trlr using 40 amp mppt controllers. I bought the 2- 250 watt panes at san tan solar 25 bucks each and the 3- 100 watt panels renogy and Hqst for 100 bucks each the controllers one is a renogy rover mppt 158 bucks and the other is a TD2410 mppt for 89 bucks on sale amazon. So for the price of the battleborn if you went with zooms or even the chins lifepo you will get more bang for your buck.

 

[eDJ_]

My Ford E 350 hightop extended rig has a tray on the left side of the engine compartment for a second battery. For the house I have a 110 volt generator but it isn't ultra quiet and heavy so I don't want to lug it along in the rig. I also have a solenoid set up for charging the deep cycle battery in that second tray. Present alternator is 70 amp.

What I'm looking at instead of an aux generator is installing a higher amperage alternator on the engine. 300 amp high output. So if the house battery is low I can start the Van engine and recharge it in less time. I'm using LED lighting in the interior and other energy efficient electrical products. LED headlight replacement for the headlights.

I'm interested in a later model inverter to pull 110 VAC from the alternator for house use in the rig and at the same time keeping the 12 VAC house battery charged up so I could have both sources without a portable generator.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I am setting up an auxiliary battery system in my vintage truck and camper shell and am about to buy, finally, a Battle Born deep cycle battery. I have pre wired a isolating solenoid , using a fuse between the truck’s battery and solenoid, and one after the solenoid and before the soon to be installed Battle Born,

How vintage is this vintage truck? How 'robust' is the electrical system? Alternator or...generator? 50 amp? 100 amp?

You should be aware that if a 100 AH Lithium battery ends up deeply depleted, it can cause a smaller alternator to be overworked because a BattleBorn can accept a very high charge rate. If that BB battery and your normal starting battery are BOTH demanding maximum or near maximum from the alternator, it might cause you some trouble. Do your homework if you are not sure.

If your solar panels and charge controller (and portable genset) are able to keep up with your daily usage, then the BattleBorn will probably NOT end up deeply depleted. But I have seen it happen, even with mine. On my pickup camper setup, I chose NOT to intermingle the two electrical systems. There are no electrical connections (NONE) between the factory engine electrical system and the rear sleeping compartment with its own batteries, solar panels, LEDs, charge controllers, fans, USB ports, shore power chargers, and inverter. I built it so that a failure up front or out back will have no effect on the other half of the system. But that is my preference, it wont work for everyone.

Some info about this is on the BattleBorn website or you can get some info here:

 

[ibuzzard]

How vintage is this vintage truck? How 'robust' is the electrical system? Alternator or...generator? 50 amp? 100 amp?

You should be aware that if a 100 AH Lithium battery ends up deeply depleted, it can cause a smaller alternator to be overworked because a BattleBorn can accept a very high charge rate. If that BB battery and your normal starting battery are BOTH demanding maximum or near maximum from the alternator, it might cause you some trouble. Do your homework if you are not sure.

If your solar panels and charge controller (and portable genset) are able to keep up with your daily usage, then the BattleBorn will probably NOT end up deeply depleted. But I have seen it happen, even with mine. On my pickup camper setup, I chose NOT to intermingle the two electrical systems. There are no electrical connections (NONE) between the factory engine electrical system and the rear sleeping compartment with its own batteries, solar panels, LEDs, charge controllers, fans, USB ports, shore power chargers, and inverter. I built it so that a failure up front or out back will have no effect on the other half of the system. But that is my preference, it wont work for everyone.

Some info about this is on the BattleBorn website or you can get some info here:

My DD truck is a 66 F250, with an alternator. I doubt it is even 45 amps, as it is stock.

 

[frater secessus]

do you have a recommendation for sizing the solar panel?

The loads are quite light, and minimal solar would work for short outings since you have access to the generator. 100w to start with, depending on where/when. 200w would be more certain.

@tx2sturgis caught the vintage truck aspect, which I missed. I would not alternator-charge anything off a 1960s 45A alternator by any method (isolator or DC-DC). I have a stock 180A alt and 100Ah of lithium and only charge from alternator when needed and even then only when I am actively driving.

This leaves solar, charging at home before/after the trip, and generator. Installing an RV style converter or shore power charger behind the shore power port would take care of the last two.

 

[ibuzzard]

I am only going to say Battle Born lifepo4 are known for good quality , but comes at a HEFTY $$$$ I can tell you I have been using the zooms lifepo4 100 AH batts now for about 1 year and they are as good as the first day they arrived. I have 3 total. 1 in my van and 2 in my converted cargo trailer and I have 300 watts of solar on van roof rack and 500 watt on cargo trlr using 40 amp mppt controllers. I bought the 2- 250 watt panes at san tan solar 25 bucks each and the 3- 100 watt panels renogy and Hqst for 100 bucks each the controllers one is a renogy rover mppt 158 bucks and the other is a TD2410 mppt for 89 bucks on sale amazon. So for the price of the battleborn if you went with zooms or even the chins lifepo you will get more bang for your buck.

I am sold on the quality of BB vs others. I have the budget to use consensus best components, I have found that I regret buying anything but the best available. I‘m not pinching pennies. For the same reason, I will use Victron components, including their MPPT controller. At this point, expecting to have to upgrade my truck’s alternator, too.

 

[ibuzzard]

The loads are quite light, and minimal solar would work for short outings since you have access to the generator. 100w to start with, depending on where/when. 200w would be more certain.

@tx2sturgis caught the vintage truck aspect, which I missed. I would not alternator-charge anything off a 1960s 45A alternator by any method (isolator or DC-DC). I have a stock 180A alt and 100Ah of lithium and only charge from alternator when needed and even then only when I am actively driving.

This leaves solar, charging at home before/after the trip, and generator. Installing an RV style converter or shore power charger behind the shore power port would take care of the last two.

I am counting on keeping the coach, as well as starting batteries, charged while driving to the destination, so I will have to upgrade from the stock alternator as my first step. Thank you for that.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Given that you will be camping in and around trees and forests, my recommendation would be a 100-150 watt panel, flat mounted on the roof of the camper, and a portable 100 watt panel, or 100-200 watt suitcase (folding) portable panel.

This configuration will allow at least some charging whether you are in transit, parked in full sun, or parked under some nice trees.

Keep in mind that a larger alternator with double the possible load, might require a belt with a tensioner, because it will place a heavier load on the engine, and the existing simple old-school v-belt might slip and squeal.

You can certainly make some engine compartment mods to suit the power needs of the camper, but I would not wish to place additional loads on the engine, in addition to the weight and wind drag of the camper.

Your genset and good sun exposure to the roof and portable panels should be able to keep up with your needs, unless you decide to add a 12v fridge and other loads such as powering multiple laptops, charging e-bikes, etc.

 

[bullfrog]

Lots of good information here but having used a topper for short trips open space becomes an issue. You really need to know exactly how much power you will need and keep things as small and simple as possible. We ended up using a tent as well and they also require more space to store when traveling. In our case we just kept progressing over a ten year or so period, bought lots of stuff now in storage or replaced as the situation became 2 week stays and then months at a time. If all you are going to power is lights, fans and devices we did fine using Ryobi tool batteries and products in combination with a duel battery (AGMs) set up, a vehicle tool battery charger and driving about 4 hours each day. We carried a generator at first but never used it. We later added a hot water system that used an electric pump which led us to need more power and considered a 12 volt refrigerator so we added a simple 100 watt portable solar panel and controller. There are many videos of Australian trekkers using similar set ups for 2 or 3 day trips you might get some ideas from. You may find you save money by going the route you are thinking of as it will surely be more than enough and leave some room for future expansion. We are now using a small trailer with a 350 watt solar system and getting ready to expand that as well as a 2500 watt propane inverter generator as we power a 5,000 BTU air conditioner. All this to say my opinion is make sure your vehicle will not be adversely effected by using it as a generator. We were able to use the vehicle tool chargers working with the stock vehicle system although the house battery (again it was an AGM) did not last as long as it could have if we had not discharged it as much as we did using it for more than just lights, fan and devices. You may find as we did space was more important than power when living in a topper.

 

[ibuzzard]

Lots of good information here but having used a topper for short trips open space becomes an issue. You really need to know exactly how much power you will need and keep things as small and simple as possible. We ended up using a tent as well and they also require more space to store when traveling. In our case we just kept progressing over a ten year or so period, bought lots of stuff now in storage or replaced as the situation became 2 week stays and then months at a time. If all you are going to power is lights, fans and devices we did fine using Ryobi tool batteries and products in combination with a duel battery (AGMs) set up, a vehicle tool battery charger and driving about 4 hours each day. We carried a generator at first but never used it. We later added a hot water system that used an electric pump which led us to need more power and considered a 12 volt refrigerator so we added a simple 100 watt portable solar panel and controller. There are many videos of Australian trekkers using similar set ups for 2 or 3 day trips you might get some ideas from. You may find you save money by going the route you are thinking of as it will surely be more than enough and leave some room for future expansion. We are now using a small trailer with a 350 watt solar system and getting ready to expand that as well as a 2500 watt propane inverter generator as we power a 5,000 BTU air conditioner. All this to say my opinion is make sure your vehicle will not be adversely effected by using it as a generator. We were able to use the vehicle tool chargers working with the stock vehicle system although the house battery (again it was an AGM) did not last as long as it could have if we had not discharged it as much as we did using it for more than just lights, fan and devices. You may find as we did space was more important than power when living in a topper.

I am an experienced truck camper, having previously owned -for about 20 years - a 1959 Ford with a tall shell similar to what we have now, with similar loads, and including an auxiliary battery. Just no solar. We use (seldom, not cold weather campers) a Olympian Wave 3 for heat, a Joolca on demand water heater for showering, doing dishes, etc., and a small camp stove, all powered off propane. My loads are just what I stated, will not increase in the future, but I failed to mention we use a small Dometic fridge, as well. If one Battle Born deep cycle battery can’t keep up, I’d add another. No water pump, no AC, no need for charging tools or running electric appliances. I am already looking at an aprox 300 watt panel for the camper shell roof, from Santan Solar. That will easily cover all our needs. I keep it simple - but want the best components , do not mind paying for them. I am going to first upgrade to a Ford 3G alternator, about 175 amps, to charge both truck and house battery as we go down the road, and go forward from there. We do in fact love and frequently use our small lightweight, nearly silent Yamaha inverter generator, wouldn’t be without it. And we searched long and found our tall , period correct camper shell in Pasadena, plenty of room for a bed and more than ample storage. No huge slide in campers for us, no low cab-height fiberglass shell, gotta be a tall non-aerodynamic one for us oldsters. It has an attached ARB awning on the side, to which we attach a screen-room/tent for extra space. Cold nights, which we avoid, we sleep in the bed in the shell. We use our Born Free RV for extended trips. Thanks.

 

[ibuzzard]

Given that you will be camping in and around trees and forests, my recommendation would be a 100-150 watt panel, flat mounted on the roof of the camper, and a portable 100 watt panel, or 100-200 watt suitcase (folding) portable panel.

This configuration will allow at least some charging whether you are in transit, parked in full sun, or parked under some nice trees.

Keep in mind that a larger alternator with double the possible load, might require a belt with a tensioner, because it will place a heavier load on the engine, and the existing simple old-school v-belt might slip and squeal.

You can certainly make some engine compartment mods to suit the power needs of the camper, but I would not wish to place additional loads on the engine, in addition to the weight and wind drag of the camper.

Your genset and good sun exposure to the roof and portable panels should be able to keep up with your needs, unless you decide to add a 12v fridge and other loads such as powering multiple laptops, charging e-bikes, etc.

Thank you, the Ford 3G 175 amp alternator does come with a grooved pulley for serpentine belt, but I can swap the trucks current two sheeve pulley over. If it does squeal, I will have to figure it out. Thank you.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Ok good luck sir. Your camper sounds very cool. Maybe you can post a few pics as you progress thru the upgrades. We love 'build pics'!

 

[ibuzzard]

Ok good luck sir. Your camper sounds very cool. Maybe you can post a few pics as you progress thru the upgrades. We love 'build pics'!

I will get some photos within a month. We are gone twice per month to see grandkids, and the camper is removed now for resealing the top of the bed, it is leaking a bit. I won’t have any available weekends to work on it for about a month. I appreciate everyone’s input and advice, thank you. Steve.

 

[Thomas]

Check out EXPLORIST.life. They have several power plant wiring diagrams ranging from Spartan to deluxe, and they all include a materials and components list. They use Victron components. They are "code compliant" per a yachting-associated governing authority. EXPLORIST.life also has many videos that show how to do every aspect of every step "correctly" for max safety. I had a blast wiring my system using their diagrams.

Setting yourself up for future upgrades might be important. I made all my wall panels easily removable in case I want to add an outlet, switch, etc. Some guys run extra wires secured to a plain block of wood on a wall panel. Some guys don't have any wall panels to speak of, or they run their wires outside the wall panels - through cabinets or wire races. That makes it easy to add an extra branch circuit without any prior accommodation for it.