Cable for cell antenna while doing solar installation

[WalkaboutTed]

Hi all, 
I've been a lurker for a while, so here's my story:
Hub and are converting Nissan NV Hightop cargo van. I'm currently doing the electrical, Hub's doing the carpentry and mechanics.  We have a CTEK S250 and SmartPass.  When I finish the interior electric install, we'll start on the solar.  

Hub and I are retired. We are planning to go full time as soon as the conversion is done.  We have 4 kids (adults-but still my babies) and will be selling the house, so we need to be reachable at all times.  Per Bob Wells' recommendation, I bought a Verizon Jet Pack and will be doing the entire pole and Yagi antenna thing.  

So the question is, since I'm going to be running the cable through the roof for the solar, I want to use the same hole for the antenna cable.  I know how much cable I need for the interior install, but I don't know how much I'll need for the outside, and more importantly, what TYPE of cable do I need? 

I'm an Amazon fanatic, it makes life so easy. If anyone knows, can you put the link to the cable on the Amazon site in your answer? 

Thank you in advance, 
Ted

 

[John61CT]

OT, but if you REALLY want to be reachable by cell phone as much as possible

see https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=21443

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Thank you, John!
I read your posting 3 times. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I guess that's why I couldn't understand your system. What I meant to say is that we want to be reached by email, I really don't need to talk to anyone. But, we already have an Ooma (grandfathered in 100% free) which we can set up via wifi with the Jetpack, so we can continue using our phone number that we've been using for 15 years.

And if we can't get a Verizon signal for the Jetpack, we have 2 Tracfones (ours' use T-Mobile and CDMA) as backup. Since we don't use them much, they cost us less than $20 a month for the two of them.

Also, as a plus, with the Verizon mifi, I'll be able to do my online stuff, mostly low data use stuff.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I bought a Verizon Jet Pack and will be doing the entire pole and Yagi antenna thing.  

So the question is, since I'm going to be running the cable through the roof for the solar, I want to use the same hole for the antenna cable.  I know how much cable I need for the interior install, but I don't know how much I'll need for the outside, and more importantly, what TYPE of cable do I need? 

Short answer:  the cable sold by the vendor you got your antenna from will be outside compatible.  As to length, it is easiest to use string or parachute cord, tape it to the top of the pole, put the pole up, route the cord how you want, and measure the cord. 

Questions:  How are you going to restrain the cable when traveling?  How are you going to attach cable to antenna before putting it up?  I am assuming you are not going to be driving with the antenna up on the pole.

I use a cell booster mounted in a truck camper.  I have the small omnidirectional antenna permanently mounted on the roof ( ~ 11 ft above ground).  This usually gets a usable cell signal.  When it doesn't I can put up a pole and YAGI antenna ( ~ 18 ft above ground).  I attach a 30 ft cable to the antenna before putting it up, thread cable through window, and hook up to booster.  This way I don't have to mess with the pole and antenna unless I really want a signal and the omni antenna doesn't give a usable one.

 -- Spiff

 

[SternWake]

Solar controllers are electrically noisy devices, and can negatively affect radio signals.

Whether they will disrupt the signals on your proposed system, s unknown tome.

I would however try to keep a few inches between the solar panel to controller wires and the antenna wire, rather than having them bundled together.

As for the  antenna wire, look for one with a thicker center conductor and quad shielding .

I have 2 tv antennas, one of them run out the roof next to solar wires and the antenna itself is mounted up higher on my solar panel.

My lower TV antenna pulls in more stations.  Is it due to solar wires?  I do not know for sure, but I suspect they play a part.

Back before the digital tv transition, the Analog tv stations would show the interference from the solar charge controller as diagonal lines of various intensity, and sometimes i disconnected the solar controller just to watch a specific TV show.

I use commonly available cord grips for passing wires through my fiberglass roof.

There are some product options presented in this thread
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-90-degree-solar-wire-roof-pass-through

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Hey Spiff,
I haven't quite figured out how we'll do it all, but since we'll be putting in the solar before the antenna, I just need to know what kind of cable I need to buy, because one hole in the roof is better than two. We haven't bought the antenna or booster yet.

So we don't know exactly the type of cable comes with the antenna.



Minutiae on converting our Nissan NV Hightop by the seats of our pants:

Nissannvforum.com/topic/1110-new-camper-conversion-in-tucson

 

[highdesertranger]

I would run communication cables separate from all other cables. highdesertranger

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Oh, as far as the Amazon link thing for Bob, I don't know how to do it from here.  I mentioned on my thread that I'm not too hot on forum mechanics. I can't even post photos there without having to go back in and do it backwards by going back in then editing my post and there adding the photos. 

I buy a ton of stuff on Amazon and I mention many of them on my thread. So Bob, if you're reading this, pm me on how to do that here and from my Nissan thread, if it can be done.





Nissannvforum.com/topic/1110-new-camper-conversion-in-tucson

 

[WalkaboutTed]

My last post got away from me,somehow, so here is what was supposed to go up there:

BradKW posted in another thread:
"Which size would be appropriate for a solar mount install?

Model Cable Diameter Range (Inches) Dimensions (Inches)
RA-1 0.1 - 0.25 2.17 x 1.65 x 0.63
RA-2 0.27 - 0.35 3.23 x 2.44 x 0.95
RA-3 0.39 - 0.47 3.23 x 2.44 x 0.95"
My question: In above, which cable, where do I find it, and what diameter of the three?

Like I said above, please make this idiot proof for me, and if there's a link to exactly what I need on Amazon, I'll buy it. I promise that I'll go through Bob's page. Even if I end up running the line separately, I'll still need to know what exact cable I need to buy. You guys really need to know that you're helping a chick who's doing her best while flying blind here.

Oh, as far as the Amazon link thing for Bob, I don't know how to do it from here.  I mentioned on my thread that I'm not too hot on forum mechanics. I can't even post photos there without having to go back in and do it backwards and then adding the photos in my edit there.

I buy a ton of stuff on Amazon and I mention many of them on my thread. So Bob, if you're reading this, pm me on how to do that here and from my Nissan thread, if it can be done.



Minutiae on converting our Nissan NV Hightop by the seats of our pants:

Nissannvforum.com/topic/1110-new-camper-conversion-in-tucson

 

[WalkaboutTed]

And sorry about the extra post, my last one got away before I put this in-I'm not too good at this computer thing:

Sternwake,
You're amazing! I've been silently following your posts as your knowledge base is incredible. But, I need more specific then:
"As for the antenna wire, look for one with a thicker center conductor and quad shielding ."

I'll watch YouTube and read here and learn about how to do things as I go, but, once again, please, can someone send me a link to give me a clue? Maybe I'm missing something, is there no such thing on Amazon?

Ted

 

[SternWake]

I do not know what type of cable your range extender uses, so i cannot provide a link.

What i do know is that many such cables have much different levels of quality where the center conductor is thicker, for less line loss, and the shielding is thicker, for better reduction of RFI( radio frequency interference)

Amazon does not always carry these speciality items.

For example i bought a wifi extension cable for my Alfa wifi adapter so I could mount the antenna on the roof. I thought that there was no difference other than in length, but an online contact more wise than myself, after my sinstall, pointed out that there was option X, available from dealer B, that used a center conductor 125% thicker with Quad shielding, for 75% more money.

Which I would have jumped on, had I already not routed and installed the less adequate cable I found on Amazon.

Sorry I can't be of more help on which specific cable would work best in your application, but I would certainly not run the solar wires and the communication antenna wires through the same hole in the roof. One hole is better than two holes, only if there is no difference in performance. That might not be the case and I would put money on performance being improved with a few inches between the cables via two holes.

Where they get close, try wrapping the cable or solar wires with alumunized tape.. Also twisting the solar wires tends to cancel out some of the RFI they might transmit.

Snap on Ferrites can also tame some of the RFI. Place them close to the solar controller.

https://www.amazon.com/Ferrite-YAMA...id=1483132960&sr=8-3&keywords=snap+on+ferrite

You know how USB cords and your laptop cord sometimes have a barrell on the wire, that is a ferrite ring. Sometimes they are not molded into the cord, but a simple snap on addition, and one can go foraging through their old electronic's wires for them. They can be highly effective at reducing RFI from noisy electronics, like switching power supplies or LED lights, or MPPT charge controllers.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Thank you, Sternwake,
I guess we can live without the booster and antenna. With every hole we drill, we increase the risk of a leak, and we've already been invoking Murphy's Law with our amateurish work. And once the solar is in, we'll finish the ceiling. There will be no more breaching the integrity of the roof after that because a leak would cause an awful mess.

We were going to get a Weboost booster. I just figured that since so many people had the Verizon Jetpack system on this board, that someone would be able to give me more of a clue than the core, the diameter, the coating, et cetera. Coaxial TV cable? Traditional wire cable that we used for the old analog TV? Shortwave radio cable?

At least we have a hightop. If we have a weak signal and have dire need to get online, one of us can climb up on top and wave the jetpack around

But thank you all for your help . If I can't get it with all of your help, is obviously beyond me.
Ted

 

[SternWake]

Elimination of this extra antenna, for fear of drilling one more hole in the roof?

To me that is like saying, If I have to remove both shoes at the door to my friend's house, i will only wear one over there, since that reduces the chance that a eagle will descend from the sky, grab my second shoe, and make it part of its nest.

Properly sealing a roof pass through is not something requiring NASA grade engineering, just commonly available products and some common sense to thwart Murphy.

I once had one roof pass through, and now have 5. Leaks are not a concern.

Under my Solar panel I have 3 roof penetrations just for solar wires, and 2 more, one for the Wifi cable, one for TV's RG-6 cable.

Few things are more frustrating than a dropped signal. Mitigate the risks with logic, and consider your convenience of not being bothered with waving an antenna around while dancing the hokey pokey, yelling at each other.

And for All I know there will be no signal degradation by having the solar wires and antenna wire passing through the same hole. I brought it up as a possibility. How likely it is, I know not.

 

[John61CT]

I couldn't understand your system. What I meant to say is that we want to be reached by email, I really don't need to talk to anyone.

Well, egg on my face then, glad I posted it separately then

other telephony discussion posted there

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

And for All I know there will be no signal degradation by having the solar wires and antenna wire passing through the same hole.  I brought it up as a possibility.  How likely it is, I know not.

I have my omni antenna wire going through the same roof hole with no noticeable degridation.  BUT you bring up two good points:

1. sealing roof penetrations is not rocket surgery.
2. there is the possibility of coupling interference with the solar wires.

Since my camper is in the shop for repairs and upgrades this winter I might have to rethink my wire routing.


WalkaboutTed:
"I guess we can live without the booster and antenna."

Couple of observations:

1. You may find some or a lot of signal degradation inside your metal box (hard to tell without testing).
2. It is easier and a cleaner install to do it before finishing the interior than after (don't ask me how I know  :blush: )

 -- Spiff

 

[lmlisak]

And sorry about the extra post, my last one got away before I put this in-I'm not too good at this computer thing:

Sternwake,
You're amazing! I've been silently following your posts as your knowledge base is incredible.  But, I need more specific then:
"As for the  antenna wire, look for one with a thicker center conductor and quad shielding ."

I'll watch YouTube and read here and learn about how to do things as I go, but, once again, please, can someone send me a link to give me a clue?  Maybe I'm missing something, is there no such thing on Amazon?

Ted

LMR400 is the cable... Good for up to 6 ghz... Way beyond the cell phone frequency... So this is low loss

 

[lmlisak]

LMR400 is the cable... Good for up to 6 ghz... Way beyond the cell phone frequency... So this is low loss

Forgot to include the solar interference issue. Go look inth ferrite bead for each wire connection going to and coming from the controller.

Computer keyboards from long ago With ps-2 style ends typically had one of these ferrite cores on the cable.  that's what I used... You can find them possibly at allelectronics.com

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Thank you!!! I just wanted the name of the type of cable I was looking for, so I could do my research and go on from there. That's all I wanted to know, so I can put in the cable before we close up the ceiling, one hole or two.

Aside from the trepidation about leaks, if I put in the cable before we finish the ceiling, it'll be much prettier.

Thank you once again,
Teddi

 

[akrvbob]

This is the blog post that shows which one I used to connect my Wilson Sleek to the Wilson directional antenna:
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/uncate...tion-wilson-sleek-directional-antenna-part-2/