Buying Van with High Mileage

[JeriLynn]

Personally, I wouldn't consider a van with 200 k on it. Like Optimistic Paranoid  said, no one has every handed me a stack of maintenance records and until someone does I simply will not buy a van with over 200K

It's fine for all you guys who can and do your on work, I also would  buy something old or with high mileage if I could. But I don't do my own work and lots of other people here don't do their own work.

For us, don't buy a vehicle with over 200K on it.  
Bob

Bob, what is your upper limit if you do not mind posting it. I am looking at a van with 148K this weekend. It is a 1985 E350 with an International Harvester 6.9 diesel engine. Asking price is $5,200. I had planned on getting something with about 80K miles, but read that this engine should go to about 400K. Any opinion?

Thanks,

 

[JeriLynn]

You didn't say what year it is, but the 6.9 was used from 83 to 94, so we are talking about an old truck

Two comments:

Sometimes on older trucks you can't always get new factory parts when something breaks.  If I recall, the factories are required to keep parts in stock for 10 years after they stop making them.  So even if it's the 94, Ford might have stopped carrying some parts for it in 2004.  There may be very little still available now in 2016.

I seem to recall that there were transmission issues on these early diesels.  Ford tried to use the same trannies that they used for their gas motors, and they really couldn't stand up to the extra torque a diesel puts out.  For a while back then, there was a whole sub-specialty of upgrading those trannies with tougher aftermarket parts.  I think for those years they were still using the C-6 tranny, and I don't know if those aftermarket parts are still available after all this time.

That's off the top of my head, and I'm really not a expert on these diesels, so I could be wrong.  Let's see what some of the other, savvier guys here say.

Personally, I know just enough about diesels that I won't touch one.  But then, I have immense respect for HighDesertRanger, and he thinks the old diesels are wonderful.  So take my comments with a large grain of salt.

Good Luck.

It is an old van 1985 which gives me pause. However, it is completely mechanical I am told and many fellas highly recommend diesel engines.

 

[DannyB1954]

It is an old van 1985 which gives me pause. However, it is completely mechanical I am told and many fellas highly recommend diesel engines.

I had a 6.9 in a Ford. It developed a problem.  At first I thought it was a head gasket, but after throwing time and money in that direction I found it was one of the rear cylinders cracked. Cost to repair $8,000. The truck in good running condition was worth maybe $4000. I sent it to the scrap yard.
Not saying that this will happen to you, but it could. As far as lots of people say, google The Emperor's New Clothes. Common knowledge is often wrong. find out for yourself what an engine replacement will cost with labor for that vehicle. If the engines really did run forever, there would be very few people selling remanufactured engines, (there would be no market for them).

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Let me run another idea by you.

I used to buy all my vehicles at NY state or county surplus vehicles auctions.

You could always depend on state and municipal vehicles to be well maintained.  Moreover, unlike, say "Honest Mike's Used Car Lot", you could depend on them to be completely honest about any problems they were aware of.  Frequently the vehicles had lists on the windows of work done, like "new brakes, rotors and calipers at 70,000 miles" and similar.

Best of all, you were bidding against small garages and used car dealerships, mostly, who knew what they could get re-selling the vehicles, and who would drop out of the bidding before it reached that point.

I bought a 1999 Jeep Cherokee from New York State (ex Department of Corrections vehicle) for $2200 a few years back.  Blue Book value on it was $4,000 to $4,200.  As one example.

A quick Google search of State Surplus Vehicle Auctions CA brings up the following web site:

http://www.dgs.ca.gov/ofam/Programs/StSurplus/Auctions/AutoAuction.aspx

I see there is an auction coming up in September, and there are at least a couple of Ford Vans listed.

As far as county auctions go, you'll probably need to call around to the different county governments near you and inquire as to when and where they run their auctions.  Dutchess County NY used to only run one auction a year.  They also handled the surplus vehicles from the towns and cities at the same auction.  That may be different in CA.  (Hell, from what I hear, EVERYTHING is different in CA!)

Anyway, just a suggestion.

 

[ArtW]

You see a lot of vehicles for sale with 200k. You don't see many for sale with 260k. The vehicle is more than an engine. Transmissions, differentials, suspension parts, brakes, steering gear boxes, they all wear. If you are capable of doing the work yourself, buying something mostly worn out isn't a bad way to go especially if the body and interior are nice.
But if you are paying $100 an hour for labor, and you spend $9k on buying the vehicle, $3k on engine, (if it is a diesel, at least double that), $3k on a transmission, $1k on a rear end, $1k on front suspension, $800 on brakes, drums, disks, lines, master cylinder, calipers, wheel cylinders, probably another $1k for truck tires, etc. you have more into the vehicle than it is worth. You have about $20k tied up in a vehicle that is worth $3k.

It is not likely that all of these things will go bad at the same time, but eventually you can have more money into it than a newer low mileage vehicle would have cost you. Then when something breaks, do you put more money into it, or cut your losses and start over?

If the vehicle gets wrecked, the insurance is going to give you blue book or less. They really don't care what it cost you to keep it running. For $9k, I think you could get a nice lower mileage vehicle.

A person who buys a 200k vehicle isn't a person who's gonna sell a running vehicle if it runs well, these folks will drive their 200k vehicles untill they have a problem that renders them scrap, that's why you don't see them for sale
sometimes this person is an adroit mechanically skilled person, but as often they're just flat poor, and many of them will scrimp on repair because, let's face it, if you bought it for $1k and it lasts a year, you're happy
The only reason I would consider selling or swapping my Ranger would be for a full size van or truck, period, or catastrophic failure

Yes, all this components wear, and they can all be renewed
I have bought older vehicles and discovered that they were actually in like new condition
The owner sold because a lot of stuff went bad in rapid succession, and it frightened him
I drove that car for 3 years with not a problem or care in the world, untill someone hit it and totalled it
That is the only time resale value matters: if you're selling or if you get hit, otherwise you are far better off with a 200k mile vehicle that's well taken care of, than a 50k mile vehicle that's been 'rode hard and put away wet'

As far as buying a pig in a poke, not if you know how to properly inspect a used vehicle
all the components you named, you're supposed to check before purchase at any mileage if the vehicle is used
I've seen more newer cars than older ones on the side of the road broken

You are however more likely to get service records with a newer car, as they add more to the car's value than they weigh

But I agree, I would NOT pay 9k for a van with 200k miles on it, that's far too much, for a van that old or that high mileage

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I should have made this clear on my other post.
if you drive an older vehicle you better know how to work on it. remember I said you need to rebuild it front to rear, YOU have to do this, not a shop. if you have a shop do it it's going to triple the cost easy and more then likely corners will be cut.
you also need to buy the right vehicle. some vehicles are easier to get parts for. older Chevy's and Ford's trucks are the easiest. there is a huge aftermarket industry built around these truck's. I don't know why vans don't have the industry behind them. I guess there is not enough demand.
frankly I don't see how anybody can be on the road and not have a working knowledge of their vehicle. especially if you want to hit the out of the way places. highdesertranger

 

[akrvbob]

Bob, what is your upper limit if you do not mind posting it. I am looking at a van with 148K this weekend. It is a 1985 E350 with an International Harvester 6.9 diesel engine. Asking price is $5,200. I had planned on getting something with about 80K miles, but read that this engine should go to about 400K. Any opinion?

My current van had 150K on it when i bought it and now has just shy of 190k. The engine (good ole 350) has been perfect, all that's been done to it is oil  changes. However, everything else is already nickeling and diming me. The front end, brakes, bearings, just lots of little things all over the vehcile are a problem. Saying the engine will go 400k is meaningless because the transmission certainly will NOT and everything around the engine will NOT either. But those little things are not little things anymore, each of them will be $300-$800 each, or more. Double or triple that with a diesel.

Less than 120 k should give you 5-8 years of trouble-free service, that's what I would shoot for. 
Bob

 

[JeriLynn]

My current van had 150K on it when i bought it and now has just shy of 190k. The engine (good ole 350) has been perfect, all that's been done to it is oil  changes. However, everything else is already nickeling and diming me. The front end, brakes, bearings, just lots of little things all over the vehcile are a problem. Saying the engine will go 400k is meaningless because the transmission certainly will NOT and everything around the engine will NOT either. But those little things are not little things anymore, each of them will be $300-$800 each, or more. Double or triple that with a diesel.

Less than 120 k should give you 5-8 years of trouble-free service, that's what I would shoot for. 
Bob

Thanks a lot Bob. I woke up thinking about those exact things plus I think the price is too high. I have another to look at with everything including solar with 109K for $4K or best offer and another with 90K miles with everything except the solar for $3,200 obo. Both are mid 80s. Now I just have to decide if I want something that old at any price.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Buying used vehicles all share the same risks. Of course a 100k mile vehicle can be worse than a 200k mile vehicle depending on how it was maintained, driven, and used and sometimes more importantly where it lived. Used cars over ten years old in my neck of the woods aren't worth their weight in scrap as far as i'm concerned as the salt has already done it's damage. I'll drive or fly to salt free states when buying something older than 10 yrs. But mileage and age are usually the two best indicators on a vehicles overall reliability. They are the only two things known for certain when buying used.

My Dad's best friend drives a 97 Ford E250 he bought brand new. It now has 260k miles on it. His goal was to get it to last until he retires in 2018, he works as a traveling finish carpenter. However, the last 60k miles have cost him a lot of money and he wishes he bought another new van two years ago when he decided to make this one last. As of a few weeks ago, he added up all his invoices and he's $8800 into it between fixing rust issues, transmissions, tires, exhaust, rear end, driveshaft, and all the little nickel and dime stuff. Now it's blowing smoke and it looks like the engine is on its last legs. Once that goes, he's going to be well over 12k into it in recent repairs and he's still going to have a 19 year old vehicle. Had be bought another new one, he'd been able to pay half of it off with the money he used for repairs and the other half off over the next two years working and he could have retired with a 4 year old van. Now he's scared he's going to be retiring with a van that will be 21 years old and need to be replaced a few years after retiring when money is much tighter.

So, there's always that fine line you have to find when purchasing a used vehicle. If you can't do your own mechanical work, I think it's insane to buy a vehicle with over 200k. When there are plenty of options avail with less miles and personally I don't see much of a price difference between 120k mile vans and 220k mile vans. I think patience always wins. I know some people can't because of time constraints, however if you have the time and patience and look religiously you will usually be able to find a great deal on the almost perfect vehicle. The larger the search radius you can look in and travel to will increase your odds of success too

 

[ArtW]

Very good post ERLH, there is something to be said for getting a 2-5 yr old vehicle and running it till it's 10 or so, provided you get good, clean vehicles
I have an uncle who buys new every 5 years or so, for just this reason
from his point of view it makes sense, because he does this:
He makes no car payment to a lender, he instead makes that payment to himself, or to be specific his 'wheels' account (separate from other accounts)
He makes the actual purchase cash, and goes to the dealer that gives him the best price for what he wants
he sells his old vehicle himself,. at upper market value (and it's worth it, had I the money and was he a van owner I'd by one of his used vehicles sight unseen, he maintains them so well)

OTOH, he also has changed his mind, over the years, regarding older vehicles, watching me buy and drive $500-2000 vehicle after $500-2000 vehicle and run them for 2-5 years with little problem (he used to have your own attitude re older cars)
of course, I don't live in a salt environment, so there's that

 

[DannyB1954]

ArtW in post 33 has great advice, about having a savings account just for vehicles, but setting aside $200 a month is kinda tough for many. That is about what it would take to get a decent vehicle every 4 years. $200 times 50 months = $10,000 + what you get from selling the old rig.
Careful also with 1980's vehicles. Back then a lot the odometers only went to 99,000 miles. So if the odometer says 80,000, that could be 80,000, 180,000, 280,000 etc. You can buy a car fax which MIGHT tell you what's up, but then that's $30 down the shitter if you decide no deal.

 

[ArtW]

yeah my uncle was only able to do it because good job + like minded wife + getting good money for his 5 year old vehicles, but he started right after Korea with a beater and then worked and kept it running untill he could get a new one, after that, he just kept that going

 

[pros80]

Fascinating the variety of opinions and how assertive people are on their views of this.

There is the No car lasts pasts 200k miles or is worth it after 200k and brakes down all the time crowd.

Then there is the I drove a 300k van cross country 3 times type of crowd.

I have bought an older 225k mile van that already had the trans rebuilt once. It gave me good use for a year before selling. Did have to put into repairs though small stuff. I learned how to do a lot myself by reading the Haynes manuals. This helped save $$$..


Good advantage of a $2000 or below van that runs is you can make small repairs as needed and keep driving it and have peace of mind that if something major goes you can just scrap it. Just have a bike or AAA plan that can get you towed if you are stuck somewhere.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Good advantage of a $2000 or below van that runs is you can make small repairs as needed and keep driving it and have peace of mind that if something major goes you can just scrap it. Just have a bike or AAA plan that can get you towed if you are stuck somewhere.

Doesn't work well if the $2000 van is your home with all your earthly possessions.  Difficult to just walk away and buy another.

 -- Spiff

 

[pros80]

Doesn't work well if the $2000 van is your home with all your earthly possessions.  Difficult to just walk away and buy another.

 -- Spiff

I've done it, had a $2000 van for a year. By staying organized I was able to move things to a new van easily. Being portable is the key. You could even have a new van that gets rear ended or T boned, and you will be in the same position.

 

[DannyB1954]

I have seen several videos on a modular camper. Mon - Fri an empty work van, weekends slide in some assemblies, and it is a camper. This probably makes for a heavier unit because the assemblies would have to be strong when removed. The cabinets would each have to have their own backs. Something like modular bookcases that stack on each other.
If your van has to go in the shop for a week, rent another van and slide things in. You wouldn't be able to screw into the rental, so maybe some kind of cargo strap setup to hold things in place.

 

[introverting]

Thanks a lot Bob. I woke up thinking about those exact things plus I think the price is too high. I have another to look at with everything including solar with 109K for $4K or best offer and another with 90K miles with everything except the solar for $3,200 obo. Both are mid 80s. Now I just have to decide if I want something that old at any price.

Good thing you didn't buy that vehicle.  It's never a good idea to buy a used vehicle without having it checked out by a competent mechanic.