Buying and using land without attracting attention

[rruff]

Thats a LOT of increase in the water needs, both for individuals and for increased agriculture, all on the same or LOWER amount of available water.

Both will need to waste less. Selling water for residential use is far more lucrative than selling it to farmers. The problem is that farmers have long standing legal claims to the water, and from what I heard (can't find details on what they pay; might not even be in public record), they get it so cheap that they grow water hungry crops and make no effort to conserve. ~80% of the water is used for farm irrigation, btw.

 

[user 423]

.....they get it so cheap that they grow water hungry crops and make no effort to conserve. ~80% of the water is used for farm irrigation, btw.

Boycott watermelons!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

~80% of the water is used for farm irrigation, btw.

About 70% of our fruits and vegetables (fresh, canned, frozen) come from California.
I like to eat too.

 

[Frood]

Both will need to waste less. Selling water for residential use is far more lucrative than selling it to farmers. The problem is that farmers have long standing legal claims to the water, and from what I heard (can't find details on what they pay; might not even be in public record), they get it so cheap that they grow water hungry crops and make no effort to conserve. ~80% of the water is used for farm irrigation, btw.

Yep. In CA 80% of the water is used in an industry that accounts for less than 5% of the economy.

 

[user 423]

^Now there's some lobbyists with a lot of clout...

 

[tx2sturgis]

I have a good friend who's household water well here in West Texas is beginning to suck air. Literally, the water level in the well at about 300 feet down, is beginning to run out.

Not many options here except to pay a driller to come out and bore down another 200 feet or so.

That won't be cheap!

 

[rruff]

About 70% of our fruits and vegetables (fresh, canned, frozen) come from California.
I like to eat too.

I didn't realize that our production was that concentrated. But it underscores what happens when you have really cheap water. If that changes though because of water restrictions in CA, production will shift to other places. Prices will rise to some degree, but we probably won't even notice the difference.

US production of fruits and vegetables= $42B :https://commodity.com/blog/most-fruits-vegetables/
US exports of fruits and vegetables= $12B :https://www.fas.usda.gov/commodities/fruits-and-vegetables
US imports of fruits and vegetables= $21B :https://www.eurofresh-distribution.com/news/record-us-fruit-and-vegetable-imports-expected-in-2022/

 

[JDub]

Actually a huge part of the problem is massively increasing demand and small water users being deprioritized in favor of more profitable water buyers. In 1900 AZ had 123 thousand people. Now there are 7.1 million. NV had 42 thousand. Now there are over 3 million. NM had 195 thousand, now 2 million. Utah, 277 thousand, now over 3 million. Oh, and California... 1.5 million in 1900, and now... 39.5 million people. Thats a LOT of increase in the water needs, both for individuals and for increased agriculture, all on the same or LOWER amount of available water.

I pulled the above data all from https://npg.org/library/population-data.html

One thing we've got plenty of (besides skeeters) is water...

 

[Frood]

One thing we've got plenty of (besides skeeters) is water...

View attachment 32303

Yeah. That's a big reason for why I am seriously considering moving somewhere in the eastern portion of the US (or anywhere I can garden without irrigation).

 

[rruff]

Yeah. That's a big reason for why I am seriously considering moving somewhere in the eastern portion of the US (or anywhere I can garden without irrigation).

You like skeeters?

 

[Frood]

You like skeeters?

Not a fan, but I'm also don't have a problem with DEET... Besides, I have skeeters anyway, they are just so small you don't see them till AFTER you get bit. Mainly I just love being able to shape my environment using things other than sand and dirt with sparse greenery.

 

[JDub]

Yeah. That's a big reason for why I am seriously considering moving somewhere in the eastern portion of the US (or anywhere I can garden without irrigation).

https://www.al.com/news/2022/08/25-best-places-to-retire-in-alabama.html
I'd retire to Theodore or Fairhope if I were sticking around...

Cheers!

 

[GoingMobile]

It's striking why there is no serious discussion about the dire water situation that already exists in the southwest. It is not a doom and gloom scenerio, it is the present state of things.

We fell in love with SW after our recent trips and were tempted to retire there permanently. But after MUCH research we have come to the conclusion that any property purchased in SW is too risky right now as an investment bc of the *current* water situation. Wish we were rich enough to simply regard the purchase as disposable just to enjoy as long as possible, come what may. We love the area that much.

Feasible solutions may be found (we've seen crazy ones like pilfering directly from the Mississippi) but without water, money spent on any property there may very well be lost in a couple of years.

I recently visited friends in Madrid New Mexico who built an off grid house and collect all of the rainwater off of the roof. Extra wide gutters catch the water and it runs into 2 large underground cisterns. From there it is pumped into the house and goes through several layers of filtration with the last being ultraviolet light under the sink. Much of the water comes in bunches during the monsoon season and there is snow accumulating and then melting during winter. He has a third cistern out front in case they need water delivered but says so far they have been able to get by on what they are able to collect.

 

[GoingMobile]

The 80% of CA's available water resource goes to Ag, 20% to residential and all other business: https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2022/02/24/california-water/

I don't know what those numbers are in other SW states, but I suspect it's similar. Early settlers obtained water rights for farms and ranches and unless they sell those rights they retain ownership.

I don't live in CA, I live in southern NM, but it's similar in other mountain regions. Mostly pine forest. We get ~22" of rain per year and it looks like this:

Yes, southern CA is mostly dry, but there are plenty of forest covered mountains there as well. And before the LA basin was covered by people it was covered with irrigated orange and avocado groves.

NV is the driest state, followed by UT and WY. Many states in the west have desert areas, but they all have large areas that are quite green, too. https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php

Impressions given by the "news" are usually far from reality.

Where is this photo in southern New Mexico?

 

[GoingMobile]

I am on 1/2 acre... NM

The choice came down to this
Property where obtaining water was easy or a place with zero possibility of water but a place where I can live in my van, build a mni cabin with no hassle and haul and pay for water.

There are not lots of options.... Everyone out here is hauling water or $250 delivery for 1500 gallons.
Water association, you must have a building or be building, but the water is not drinkable.

I pay 35 cents gallon for drinking water at Twice the Ice stand.
Yesterday I had 68f.....today 72f

I will happily haul water to beat the heat at 8100 feet... Plus no Govt harassment

Life is a trade off

Sounds like Tres Piedras? I was recently looking around there. INteresting variety of compounds, from some nice adobe houses to Mad Max style compounds with a collection of school busses and camper carcasses making a fortress of doom. I kind of liked it. It seems the 1/2 acre parcels date back to the 60s when a developer subdivided a big parcel and started selling lots at a worlds fair. He was eventually convicted of mail fraud. Is 1/2 acre enough to get a septic permit where your at?

 

[GoingMobile]

Going all the way back to the original post...I believe Bob bought the land not only to have a bug out location where he could park his vehicle and live for awhile in case of some calamity (permanently? did he say that?) but as or more importantly, he bought it in order to have a physical address - no more risk of giving an insurer the wrong garaging address and a place to give banks or public agencies and actual physical address that it is. At the end of the day, does owning a parcel solve those issues? (provided that the local authorities give it an address)..... in terms of water, isn't that more an issue in the west, than on the east coast?

That is correct on the physical address issue. It seems to solve that problem. As an artist, I want to be able to have a studio space to work in. So far I've found living in the van makes that difficult with the exception of plein air paintings as I travel. I may start to look into tent structures as nomadic studio spaces. Maintaining comfortable temperatures and withstanding winds seem to be issues to resolve in that. It got me to start to think that being able to build a more suitable structure on the land eventually would be a nice option to have if I were to buy land for the physical address.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Where is this photo in southern New Mexico?

That has to be Silver City.

 

[rruff]

That has to be Silver City.

Ruidoso. Silver City doesn't have that many pine trees.

 

[GoingMobile]

Ruidoso. Silver City doesn't have that many pine trees.

Okay, I haven't been there yet. Farther east I believe. I visited Silver City and liked it, the people were real nice and prices were on the more affordable side. But I remember a more arid mountain landscape. Ruidoso looks similar to Flagstaff in that picture.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Ok, but Ruidoso is considered (by some locals there) to be a part of 'South Central NM' not really Southern NM.

The only other sizable city (as shown in the aerial picture) close to a densely forested area in 'Southern NM' would be Silver City.

Small detail but it accounts for the error on my part. That, and also, I've never seen either town from the air...but many times from the roads as I passed thru.

Carry on!