Biodegradable Soaps, Shampoos

[Scott3569]

I think it is a little funny when people argue that something is not biodegradable.. ANY and I mean ANY product we have that is man made, comes from natural resources, and all natural resources are most certainly biodegradable..

I don't care which product you want to argue about, the chemical compounds that make up the product come from natural resources..

PLASTIC is mostly made of what???? thats right oil, OIL is a natural resource..

Of course there are other chemicals added to it to give it the structure, But even those are biodegradable.

Where do people think we get all the products we have?????

 

[highdesertranger]

Everything we have is either grown or mined. Now-a-days people seemed to be real naïve about this. I don't know where some people think stuff comes from. Highdesertranger

 

[RvNaut]

I don't  care which product you want to argue about, the chemical compounds that make up the product come from natural resources..

While you are correct, much of what we use in terms of all products are compounds that do not exist in nature.. so yeah it isn't like all our trash and bi-products of human existence aren't slowly killing the planet or anything... ahem...

As a whole, humanity is now an infection on the planet... sad shit... if we can learn to live with the other life forms on the planet we might do well down the road, but that looks to be a very unlikely outcome at this point in time... greed runs the rock... I'm semi old .. sometime in the next 20 years I'll check out .. I won't be here to see how bad it gets... the difference is I care and the greedy could give a shit...

Ooo squirrel  !!!

 

[Scott3569]

I am not saying that the things We have made as humans, have not had an effect.. although I do not know the exact half life of plastic bottles for example. What made the plastic bottles are of Natural Sources.. It will eventually break down.. 

I mean really what it boils down to, is there was a demand for a certain product, and it took some science genesis to figure out how to put the chemical compounds together to make the product for the demand, so really the only people we have to blame is our selves.. 

My point was, EVERYTHING MAN MADE Started out from natural Sources, We figured out how to combine the natural sources to make the products we have.. But it still all needed to start with the Natural sources

 

[BelgianPup]

Do people REALLY think that things that take 500 to 1000 years to degrade are "biodegradable"?

 

[crofter]

Dr Bronners makes my hair really dry after a few washes....

The reason your hair feels "dry" is that there is no silicone in dr bronners soap. If you can cut the soap by half it may work better for you, then follow with a conditioner containing silicone and you will have that nice feel people are accustomed to.

I have done away with silicone as much as possible. I use the dr bronners tea tree soap for hair and skin as it is healing for the skin.
-crofter

 

[highdesertranger]

"Do people REALLY think that things that take 500 to 1000 years to degrade are "biodegradable"?"

Well yes, unless you want to change the definition of biodegradable. If you look it up there is no time line in the term. In other words it doesn't say that something must degrade in X amount of time to be considered degradable. However now-a-days it is common for terms to be used out of context and this seems to be acceptable to most people.

Highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

^^^Yes by that definition even radioactive materials are "biodegradable". Problem is humans like to condense and combine natural elements where as nature likes to randomly disperse and distribute them and nature just isn't keeping up! Lol!!!

 

[highdesertranger]

"even radioactive materials are "biodegradable"."

exactly, according to science they are biodegradable.

Listen I am not saying just because everything is biodegradable that it can be tossed out willy nilly. What I am saying is the term biodegradable has been hijacked by companies and organizations for the benefit of making money. Simple as that.

Highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

For a long time we have been making things with no consideration of what happens to them when we are done with them, that needs to change. It makes just sense to completely solve problems and think things through before the temporary solution becomes a bigger problem than the original one. We have for too long depended on nature to solve our problem and need to be more a part of the solution when it comes to waste and pollution. I'm finished with the soap box, next!

 

[Zmann]

... good ol Granny's lye soap...Will do the trick...

 

[highdesertranger]

Another thing I would like to point out.

When I post stuff like this, "everything is biodegradable". I do it to provoke people into thinking for themselves. To do research into the subject and not just accept the group think that is so prevalent today.

Highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

I sort of like that often it is biodegradable but comes in an unmarked and therefore unrecyclable plastic container or plastic coated container because it makes more profit that way! Yes sir we are really concerned about the planet and the life on it!

 

[Scott3569]

For a long time we have been making things with no consideration of what happens to them when we are done with them, that needs to change. It makes just sense to completely solve problems and think things through before the temporary solution becomes a bigger problem than the original one. We have for too long depended on nature to solve our problem and need to be more a part of the solution when it comes to waste and pollution. I'm finished with the soap box, next!

couldn't agree more

 

[crofter]

For the interest of this discussion, let me define what I mean when I use the term "biodegradable" with reference to body care products like soap or shampoo:

Simply made: made out of a small number of naturally ocurring substances. 5 is the magic number, looking to weed out toxins from the list.

Does not contain things that harm the human body: like silicone that clogs pores and acrylamide that causes cancer. Remember that cosmetics are not approved by the FDA.

Does not have substances that cause extra bubbles or algae, like phosphates.

Breaks down in 6 months to water, organic matter, and co2. Link to definition.
https://goeast.ems.com/biodegradable-soaps-clean-waterways/

Used at least 200 feet from waterways. Ok to swim but never bathe in natural water body.

I am that person at the store reading the labels.
-crofter

Link to recomended soaps from Outside magazine.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2423927/camp-cooking-fails-hacks

 

[sneaks]

I tried Dr. Bronners on my hair and did not like the results. I'd like to know how to do without soap/shampoo .... like, do you have long hair, or short? I think it would be easier with short hair. Perhaps I'm a bit too finicky about how my hair turns out, but it is a real issue for me.

The problem with Dr Bronners is the pH. It's not right for most hair types, which is why they also sell an acidic rinse to use afterwards to close up the cuticles. Or, you can use vinegar to accomplish the same thing, as long as you don't mind smelling like a salad. My better half has been diving into hair products & chemistry for a few years, I've actually picked some of what she's told me up . We both have long hair (he's mid-back, mine about shoulder-blade length. Don't forget that as you get older and the greys hit, your hair gets more porous and will react differently to products.

 

[crofter]

Do people REALLY think that things that take 500 to 1000 years to degrade are "biodegradable"?

According to Clean Rivers, the criterion is: within 6 months, and degrades to water, co2, and organic matter. 


Much has been said on this forum about how to clean your dishes & your body effectively while respecting nature.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=12492&highlight=Wash+hair

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=39909

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=22693&highlight=Wash+dishes

I understand that people want to do what they do and is why rivers are polluted. Consider the choice- respecting nature or staying in town or at a facility where your waste will be processed by a seweage treatment plant before it enters the river. Choosing this option, I mostly use public showers, and when camping use a small amount of water in a basin bath.
-crofter

 

[highdesertranger]

See and here lies the problem. Organizations like Clean Rivers does not get to make up their own definition of the term biodegradable. This is a big problem now-a-days. It's fine if they want to say something to the effect that, "it is best for this ecosystem if something biodegrades in X amount of time". But to change the definition is not ok. Can you understand the difference? Highdesertranger

 

[sneaks]

Like saying "organic matter." Welp, arsenic is an organic matter. So is lead.

 

[RvNaut]

Hair... you likely need to wash your hair a lot less often than you do. The same can be said for our bodies. Granted when highly caffeinated ( for me at all) and perhaps exerting washing of some kind is in order, but I think most of us could wash less often and get away with it.. so yeah.. washing hair with Bonners will do a number.. especially if you are using it daily or several times a week...