Belated hello... and a vehicle-choice conundrum.

[Green-Is-Gold]

Hello, camping folk! I've been on this site for a while, and posted a couple of times, but didn't introduce myself. I'm a 60-something single male. I live in a well-known N Calif city, but am planning to move to a less crowded part of the state, where – among other things – I'll have space to have a camper.

I'm soliciting ideas that'll help guide me to the best choice of vehicle from the start, so I won't end up saying, “Eh, I should've bought a ___ instead of this.” I'd like to have a vehicle that can take me over so-so dirt roads when necessary, to get to the best mountain trailheads (example Uncompahgre Peak in Colorado). But I wouldn't drive it off-road. Nor am I interested in urban camping, so being stealthy isn't a factor. And I'd match my excursions to the seasons (summer & fall in the Rockies, spring in Arizona), so as not to have to deal with extreme temperatures.

My first idea for “best choice” was a passenger van, such as a Chevy Express retired from a commuter vanpool fleet. I like the idea of a window van, for being able to camp in a remote spot and enjoy looking out – day and night. On the other hand, a pop-up truck camper on a 4WD truck would do better on not-so-good dirt roads. But those campers seem to have mostly solid walls, with only a few small windows.

Your ideas welcome.... and thanks for reading!

 

[RvNaut]

You should attend an event where there are people that have been down this road to fill your head with ideas and foilbles. Although that isn't so easy to do....

It is likely you will change your mind about the what and how once you are out there.

Standing (or not being able to) in you rig can be a real issue for some.

face it.. .there are SO many factors, and just as many types of people, with just as many ways of doing things....

I would suggest reading a few thousand posts here, then ... just do it, but the more thinking, looking and considering you do, the better.

 

[user 22017]

Hello, camping folk! I've been on this site for a while, and posted a couple of times, but didn't introduce myself. I'm a 60-something single male. I live in a well-known N Calif city, but am planning to move to a less crowded part of the state, where – among other things – I'll have space to have a camper.

Welcome to the forum, Green.

 

[jacqueg]

Hello, camping folk! I've been on this site for a while, and posted a couple of times, but didn't introduce myself. I'm a 60-something single male. I live in a well-known N Calif city, but am planning to move to a less crowded part of the state, where – among other things – I'll have space to have a camper.

I'm soliciting ideas that'll help guide me to the best choice of vehicle from the start, so I won't end up saying, “Eh, I should've bought a ___ instead of this.” I'd like to have a vehicle that can take me over so-so dirt roads when necessary, to get to the best mountain trailheads (example Uncompahgre Peak in Colorado). But I wouldn't drive it off-road. Nor am I interested in urban camping, so being stealthy isn't a factor. And I'd match my excursions to the seasons (summer & fall in the Rockies, spring in Arizona), so as not to have to deal with extreme temperatures.

My first idea for “best choice” was a passenger van, such as a Chevy Express retired from a commuter vanpool fleet. I like the idea of a window van, for being able to camp in a remote spot and enjoy looking out – day and night. On the other hand, a pop-up truck camper on a 4WD truck would do better on not-so-good dirt roads. But those campers seem to have mostly solid walls, with only a few small windows.

Your ideas welcome.... and thanks for reading!

There's no such thing as a single vehicle that can do it all. You're gonna have to prioritize. If your priority is rough roads, then I think you need a solid pickup. I have a cargo van, and it definitely can handle the occasional rough road. But I'd have to beef it up if I spent a lot more time on rough roads - for instance, a heavier-duty suspension - and that gets spendy. Better to start with a vehicle that is built from the beginning to handle rough roads. As for small windows - if you are spending most of your days outdoors, window size doesn't matter. And if you really are an outdoor person, why would you want to spend most of your time in your camper anyway???

 

[rruff]

Your ideas welcome.... and thanks for reading!

Windows... since you'll be camping in remote areas in nice weather, my many years of experience might be useful to you. I like a couple small windows to let in light, but being outside is 1,000% better! As soon as the sun comes up, even if it's 30F out, I'm sitting outside in the sun. The interior is for nighttime, and when it's cold the windows are a big heat bridge and condensation creator. And during hot days they are even worse, letting in solar heat.

When you say "not offroad" what do you mean exactly? IME the best places are out of the way, on tracks that are infrequently traveled. They are sort of like roads, and may even appear on maps, but not always. Some are fairly easy, some are not. Ground clearance is the biggest issue IME, and modern vans are poor in this respect. An Express or E series would be better. 4wd is nice, but less important. Good larger AT tires, a small lift, and a regear and a locker would make a van plenty capable. If you get a truck you might as well get 4wd since it's common and cheap. Plenty of mods available for those too to make them more offroad capable.

I've always built my own truck campers and made the top tough enough to knock branches out of the way. I don't put solar panels or anything else on there. It's better to have remote solar anyway if you will be parked for awhile... no need to park in the sun then.

IMO tall enough to sit up straight is a sweet spot for a small camper, but if you want standing height you can have a cabover berth for sleeping too, and lots more room. I'm not fond of popups, but a lot of people seem to love them.

If you like simple you might consider one of these shells that you can outfit the way you want. Used ones can be bought cheap sometimes, but new ones are $10-12k. Brands are Maranda, SpaceKap, and Tufport. If you like the profile but would prefer one already built, there is a place in Canada that sells them already built for pretty reasonable, but I can't remember the name! ~$30k as I recall.

Oh... if you will have a truck camper that weighs over 1,000 lbs, then plan on at least a 3/4 ton truck. Once you load all your stuff, you'll be a lot heavier than you expect...

 

[maki2]

Nomadic living works best when you find multiple uses for the limited space you have. You want big windows to look out of? No problem, you are absolutely going to have 3 of them with a comfortable reclining chair(s) to sit in while looking outside. They come already built into your vehicle. Be it a van, SUV or a truck camper, they all come ready made with that feature.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I like those one-piece work shells in the picture that rruff posted but those were past my budget at the time and the logistics of ordering one and then driving to Canada or Arizona (or somewhere else) to have it installed made it difficult.

Then I ran across a local dealership that sold the A.R.E. brand of truck commercial caps built from aluminum that can be highly customized to your specs and the price is less than half of what the fiberglass work pods sell for, and all I had to do was tell them what I wanted and 3 weeks later I drove an hour to have it installed.

If you go this route I highly recommend starting with a pickup with an 8 foot bed.

I had my topper made with a mid-rise height and a couple of sliding windows, and a factory roof rack for solar panels (or a ladder!) and built in foam liner.

You can have them made in a tall boxy shape for maximum interior room or sloped, curved, or angled for better aesthetics. You can have lights, shelves, toolboxes, and insulation added at the factory. You can keep your tailgate or remove it and have hinged doors. You can choose from a variety of colors and even choose the thickness of the aluminum they use for the skin.

A cool feature is that they use a rear door lock that somehow (dont ask me how) keys itself automatically to YOUR ignition or door key the first time you insert your key. No idea how that works but it does.

The best part is that the whole thing is custom built to fit YOUR pickup and it looks like it belongs there.

I'm a fan but I sure don't have any affiliation with the company:

https://www.4are.com/product/commercial_aluminum/?cp=dcu

 

[rruff]

Those are a good option for "sit up height" shells. Is the max height 36" or do you know?

 

[tx2sturgis]

I dont know what the maximum inside height would be, mine is around 56 inches IIRC, but I think you can go higher, they charge for that of course, since there is more material used.

 

[rruff]

So 56 inches is 36 for the cap and 20 for the bed? I've never seen one taller that 36, but maybe they would do it.

 

[WayOutWest]

I agree with the comment above that you will have to prioritize as you aren't likely to get everything desirable in one setup. If you highly prioritize getting out on "so-so" roads, I'm thinking that either a 4WD truck with some type of camper, or a 4WD cargo van, would be good options. I really like the setup that the YouTuber named "Foresty Forest" has, that he uses to live full time in, largely in Canada, sometimes in the US, including winter camping. https://www.youtube.com/@forestyforest
He has a 4WD cargo van, an Econoline type van.
I think I first heard about him here.
He has a small wood burning stove in the van, makes it very cozy on cold nights.
For me, a van is preferable to a truck with camper, as I think it makes the space feel bigger when your driving cab is part of your living space, as in a van. Yet 4WD trucks are likely more available than 4WD cargo vans.
I agree with the comment above that windows other than the front windshield and the driver and passenger door windows, are not necessary, as you can sit and look through those, or, if in a van, just leave the side door open and you'll have a magnificent view spread out before you.
If you can manage getting where you want with 2WD, and you like the idea of being able to stand up inside, a Ford Transit either medium roof or high roof would be lovely. As well, you can find Ford Transit or Sprinter vans with all-wheel drive...more expensive but allows you more range in where you can travel.

 

[rruff]

If you can manage getting where you want with 2WD, and you like the idea of being able to stand up inside, a Ford Transit either medium roof or high roof would be lovely. As well, you can find Ford Transit or Sprinter vans with all-wheel drive...more expensive but allows you more range in where you can travel.

I'd definitely go with the Transit over the Sprinter, and if AWD isn't necessary (and it really isn't unless you want to get very adventurous with your house), I'd get the 3.3L no-turbo, low gear with locker, bigger tires and a lift.

I'm soliciting ideas that'll help guide me to the best choice of vehicle from the start, so I won't end up saying, “Eh, I should've bought a ___ instead of this.” I'd like to have a vehicle that can take me over so-so dirt roads when necessary, to get to the best mountain trailheads (example Uncompahgre Peak in Colorado). But I wouldn't drive it off-road. Nor am I interested in urban camping, so being stealthy isn't a factor. And I'd match my excursions to the seasons (summer & fall in the Rockies, spring in Arizona), so as not to have to deal with extreme temperatures.

You never mentioned a budget...? Or what amenities you'd consider essential, if any?

Can or would you want to set up the interior yourself?

 

[Green-Is-Gold]

Windows... since you'll be camping in remote areas in nice weather, my many years of experience might be useful to you. I like a couple small windows to let in light, but being outside is 1,000% better! As soon as the sun comes up, even if it's 30F out, I'm sitting outside in the sun. The interior is for nighttime, and when it's cold the windows are a big heat bridge and condensation creator. And during hot days they are even worse, letting in solar heat.

When you say "not offroad" what do you mean exactly? IME the best places are out of the way, on tracks that are infrequently traveled. They are sort of like roads, and may even appear on maps, but not always. Some are fairly easy, some are not. Ground clearance is the biggest issue IME, and modern vans are poor in this respect. An Express or E series would be better. 4wd is nice, but less important. Good larger AT tires, a small lift, and a regear and a locker would make a van plenty capable. If you get a truck you might as well get 4wd since it's common and cheap. Plenty of mods available for those too to make them more offroad capable.

I've always built my own truck campers and made the top tough enough to knock branches out of the way. I don't put solar panels or anything else on there. It's better to have remote solar anyway if you will be parked for awhile... no need to park in the sun then.

IMO tall enough to sit up straight is a sweet spot for a small camper, but if you want standing height you can have a cabover berth for sleeping too, and lots more room. I'm not fond of popups, but a lot of people seem to love them.

If you like simple you might consider one of these shells that you can outfit the way you want. Used ones can be bought cheap sometimes, but new ones are $10-12k. Brands are Maranda, SpaceKap, and Tufport. If you like the profile but would prefer one already built, there is a place in Canada that sells them already built for pretty reasonable, but I can't remember the name! ~$30k as I recall.

Oh... if you will have a truck camper that weighs over 1,000 lbs, then plan on at least a 3/4 ton truck. Once you load all your stuff, you'll be a lot heavier than you expect...

Wow, lots of good tips there, rruff. When I wrote, "not traveling off-road," I meant I'd travel Forest Service / BLM dirt roads, well-established routes to trailheads, etc., but nothing where the driving becomes really difficult. 4WD would be a good extra measure of safety, but I don't think I'd travel a road where it was essential. And I like the idea of a window van for a few reasons: When there's an afternoon thunderstorm, it would fun to see it on all sides. At night, I think sleeping inside a vehicle would feel less claustrophobic with windows. And if there was an unfamiliar noise at night, I wouldn't have to wonder, "What was that?" I'd just look out a window and see: "Oh, it's raccoons." But that's not a must-have, and thanks for pointing out its downsides.

 

[tamino]

At night, I think sleeping inside a vehicle would feel less claustrophobic with windows. And if there was an unfamiliar noise at night, I wouldn't have to wonder, "What was that?" I'd just look out a window and see: "Oh, it's raccoons."

I actually really like the feeling of being... cradled in a place where I am absolved of the responsibility of trying to figure out what the random sounds I hear are. It's a comforting feeling. I am safe in my little hole, I don't have to change anything or be anything or figure anything out. I can listen, I can enjoy the sounds I hear, but I can just listen to them as pure sounds without trying to figure out any of the who or where or what.

I know it's probably situational. If I were feeling worried about something, to begin with, I might feel very differently from what I just said!

 

[WayOutWest]

Wow, lots of good tips there, rruff. When I wrote, "not traveling off-road," I meant I'd travel Forest Service / BLM dirt roads, well-established routes to trailheads, etc., but nothing where the driving becomes really difficult. 4WD would be a good extra measure of safety, but I don't think I'd travel a road where it was essential. And I like the idea of a window van for a few reasons: When there's an afternoon thunderstorm, it would fun to see it on all sides. At night, I think sleeping inside a vehicle would feel less claustrophobic with windows. And if there was an unfamiliar noise at night, I wouldn't have to wonder, "What was that?" I'd just look out a window and see: "Oh, it's raccoons." But that's not a must-have, and thanks for pointing out its downsides.

I think with the windows issue, as with many other choices, there are trade-offs, and when you choose one thing, you may lose other options. Apart from a window on the sliding side door/barn doors, which I think makes the most sense and is where I'd put a window if I had one, windows in other places on the cargo part of the van may result in obstructing a space you could be using in some other manner . Such as for cabinets....
I do think having a large window on the sliding side door makes sense to feel less claustrophobic and see what's going on outside.
I tend to keep the sliding side door open most of the time when I'm camped. I also leave it open at night unless it's windy or rainy. And....when one doesn't have insulation, leaving the door closed b/c it is cold outside doesn't make as much sense....it's likely to be about the same temperature inside as outside, with no insulation and no heat running at night.
So this makes a window in that door less important.

 

[rruff]

And if there was an unfamiliar noise at night, I wouldn't have to wonder, "What was that?" I'd just look out a window and see: "Oh, it's raccoons." But that's not a must-have, and thanks for pointing out its downsides.

You won't be able to see what's going on at night... because it will be dark! Even if you have a flashlight, it will glare on windows. You'd need to have lights mounted outside that you could turn on.

 

[VanFan]

Ask yourself: "Am I a gazer?" Do you find yourself looking out windows in your home or at work quite a bit? Do you imagine the views out your van window in your future travels?

We have an old window van, and love, love, love the views. Our last three stays have been beside lakes with panoramic views. Mountains, canyons, rivers, forests and the sea shore... ah. When it's windy, cold and/or raining, for us there is nothing like being snug in bed and looking out the windows. (Sometimes you really don't want to be outside or have open doors!)

I could go on and on about how much joy we experience that way, but only you can reasonably consider what it might do for you.

 

[afblangley]

My first idea for “best choice” was a passenger van, such as a Chevy Express retired from a commuter vanpool fleet. I like the idea of a window van, for being able to camp in a remote spot and enjoy looking out – day and night.

I chose a passenger van as the basis for my DIY conversion for multiple reasons, including having windows all around. I appreciate the visibility it allows for while driving and the views from all directions while stationary. My window covers are magnetically attached to the window frame in the folded up position, so deploying them takes only a few seconds when privacy or insulating effect is desired.

In practice, I keep 2 of the 3 windows behind the driver seat covered most of the time because access is difficult behind the galley. The rear door window covers are always up except when I’m sleeping, since I like using my rear view mirror. Ditto with the window on the sliding door. On occasions when I’ve left the windows behind the navigator’s seat are covered, the van feels dark and closed in, even in broad daylight. I like being able to choose, a windowless van gives you no choice.

There are other advantages for choosing a passenger van. Finished walls, flooring, and ceiling provide a professional appearance that isn’t easily replicated with DIY skills/materials. Rear HVAC keeps the whole van comfortable while driving. Ditto with audio speaker system. Then there’s the flexibility add and remove seats as needed in order to safely carry passengers. The bottom line is using a passenger van as the foundation can allow for a cheaper and faster buildout.

 

[LargeMarge]

Great questions!
Great observations!
.
For about a half-century, we experimented with all manner of rigs.
Eventually -- 'inevitably', as you might expect -- we tuned our RequirementsStatement for our latest type of full-time live-aboard:
https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/expeditionvehicle-build.44908/#post-576110.
Windows...
We went small and high.
Advantages:
* small target for jealous by-standers
* small target for branches and limbs
* small loss of warmth during cool weather
... and...
* at about eight feet above pavement, less likelihood of peepers.
.
Our rear entry has a two-part door.
Both sections swing as a unified unit, but the upper 'Dutch' portion can be separately opened for light and ventilation.
Again, our interior is relatively-safe from peepers -- the upper door section is at our eye-level while standing inside.
.
Why focus on anti-peeping?
Walk the pier in a marina.
Any casual stroller can see everything inside any boat.
In the rig -- boondocking in the forest or at the beach -- we are 'casual' about our clothing options, so our small high windows provide less distraction for the potentially judgemental crowd.
.
I turn 71 in a few weeks.
Heck... I judge me.
.
.
'Mostly-Solid Walls'...
Apparently, a solid wall is a structural member between the roof and floor.
Apparently, a wall with holes needs frames to compensate for the lack of solid walls.
Apparently, a chunk of glass reduces the structural rigidity?
.
We think the worst window placement is at waist-level.
Those create ceiling shadows.
Inside looking out, you look down at the ground a few feet from the side of the rig.
Huh.

 

[Green-Is-Gold]

More great replies.... thanks, all.... what an excellent site this is.

VanFan and Afblangley may I ask what makes and years your vehicles are?

As I mentioned, I was leaning toward a Chevy Express... with a body-on-frame
and overall old-school design, I think it would be more rugged than a Ford Transit.
However, I just drove an Express recently (a U-Haul), and it felt awkward.
Plus the driving position wasn't very comfortable for me. So I haven't yet determined
what my optimal vehicle would be.

If I could take an old VW camper, remove the engine and wheels, and mount it on
a 4WD pickup truck frame, that might be pretty close to my ideal. But I haven't got
the skill set to do that!

In the real world, my tentative budget is about 20k. I suspect that would've been ample
in pre-pandemic times... but perhaps not so today? I looked online for AWD Chevy vans
(last produced in the early 20-teens, from what I can tell), and found a dealer
in Minnesota with a big inventory goodguysmotorco.com/newandusedcars?clearall=1
They're surprisingly expensive for ten-year-old vans, though.

As far as seeing stuff at night... one of the most memorable hikes I ever had was at night --
watching elk, and getting closer to them than I could've done in the daytime.
I had a flashlight, but didn't need it... because the moon was bright.