Bare Minimum Level of Work Needed to Make a Van Liveable

[reflex439]

Insulation works by slowing the transfer of heat.

It won't help much in a vehicle unless you are actively cooling or heating the air inside. If you are not, the temps inside and out will equalize. Insulation will slow that process a bit, but not stop it.

A person puts out about 300+ BTUs of heat. Any cooking adds heat as well. Why loose that heat. Insulation helps defray the effects of the hot sun beating on the outside of the van during hot sunny days. Even without actively heating or cooling the space insulation really helps. Insulation and ventilation fan(s) are near the very top of my list right next to a comfortable bed configuration, which is nbr 1.

 

[lenny flank]

300 BTUs is a little more heat than a candle puts out. In a volume the size of a van or RV, it is negligible. That is why the "candle flowerpot" heaters you see all over YouTube don't actually do anything useful.

Insulation delays heat loss; it does not stop it.

 

[steamjam1]

That's a little too much bare. And a lot of people don't even have camping gear nor camping experience. Literally, babes in the woods. That's why I suggested a seminar on going minimalist, but something realistic. Or possibly a webpage on it on this website. "Get Started with the Bare Essentials".

Yep.. I spent one NORCAL winter in a van with zero insulation, not even wall paneling. Just two throw rugs on the bare metal floor with an Ikea brand futon mattress ontop. It was utterly miserable. I woke up just abut every morning damp from condensation, mold was a constant problem, and I had a small room heater I could use when I had access to shore power, but whenever I used it, it just made the condensation problems worse.

All I had in that van was: My clothes, a room heater I barely ever got to use, a 0-degree sleeping bag, a battery box with inverter for my coffee machine, an MSR camping cooking pot, a stainless steel coffee mug and a gasoline fueled 1 burner cooking stove. That was it... Not even a port-a-potty..... The conversion van windows leaked like crazy, and what broke the camels back was waking up one night during a rain storm choking on water I inhaled in my sleep from a SOAKED pillow from that leaky window. Then discovering that mold had started to grow ON MY DOG's HEAD.... That was it.. I couldn't take it anymore.
The next morning, I bought a used class-b RV. Best cash I've ever spent.. I'm in the lap of luxury now compared to that winter.

But, I learned ALOT from that experience. I know whats possible, and I can do it all again if I had too with one important thing... A dehumidifier.... If I had one during that winter... I'd probably still be living in that van..

 

[RVTravel]

Wonder what the best 12volt dehumidifier is?

 

[RogerD]

Here are a couple videos, One has to do with the minimum to get started and another about how a van dweller controls condensation without insulation.





My 2 cents is that you need a bed and a way to keep food/drinks cold.

But how comfortable you are (heat/cold) is another story.

It's far easier / cheaper to stay warm than cold.

I'm in FL and summer sucks / winters are great.

I recently just got a van and don't plan to go fulltime till the winter.

However, I've been sleeping in my Expedition for about 3 months now. I sold my house and had no plan to buy another or rent an apartment. I had a bunch of stuff that I still needed to sell after the house was sold, so 'i rented a workshop (which is just a 500 sq ft storage unit with electricity) to store everything while selling it.

It's 90+ here in the summer during the day. So I built an insulated 8x12 room in it with AC and stay in it from about 8 am - midnight. Then I crash at Walmart in the Expedition.

I have two 02 cool fans I run in the expedition at night and stay comfortable. There have only been a few nights that I wasn't comfortable. In the future to combat this, I will be getting a couple endless breeze fans which move much more air and should work.

Once summer rolls around again I will have AC in the van. Going to get 6 / 160-watt solar panels and 8 golf cart batteries and a generator. I may very well end up going where it is cooler as well.

Being able to control the heat is what will make or break my van dwelling plan.

 

[GypsyJan]

RogerD:

I am in Central Florida...and I feel your pain! I am not a full timer for a few more years and then I will be spending summers near the US / Canadian border and winters back in Florida. Meanwhile, I car dwell for road trips and weekends....and try to avoid doing so in any month without an "r" in its name! That said I did camp out in the RAV4 for the first week in July this year and with a fan, it was ok, thanks to rain and shade.

 

[QinReno]

Here are a couple videos, One has to do with the minimum to get started and another about how a van dweller controls condensation without insulation.

That canadian guy is great, albeit a bit manic, but I've been watching him for a while. Spray rock guard is what I think they were talking about.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spray+rock+guard

I've been holding off on insulating the roof of my van - actually waiting until summer cooled down some - and hadn't even planned to insulate the rest of the van. I have been worried about moisture and mold building behind the insulation.

 

[RogerD]

 I have been worried about moisture and mold building behind the insulation.

This guy seems rather knowledgeable when it comes to insulation and uses refletix as a vapor barrier.

 

[crofter]

That's a little too much bare. And a lot of people don't even have camping gear nor camping experience. Literally, babes in the woods. That's why I suggested a seminar on going minimalist, but something realistic. Or possibly a webpage on it on this website. "Get Started with the Bare Essentials".

There was a thread working out a van build costing no more than $750 (not including the van).  I can't find it now, but I agree that kind of starting out thread would be good.   ~crofter

 

[jonyjoe303]

I've been holding off on insulating the roof of my van - actually waiting until summer cooled down some - and hadn't even planned to insulate the rest of the van. I have been worried about moisture and mold building behind the insulation.

I wouldnt worry too much about that, when I remove the headliner on my van the roof was spotless and it had an actual air gap. Insulation which will be right next to the metal if anything will protect it better. I've had my rtech foam insulation on my roof for 5 years, never had problems with it. 2 inches of rtech foam on your roof will make a big difference. I have no heat coming in from my roof. 

oem roof insulation, this fiberglass type of insulation let too much heat in. Notice the huge air gap.


rtech roof insulation, 4 layers of 1/2 inch foam, hotglue on top of each other. Extremely effective, even 1 layer of foam was better then the oem headliner.


Foam insulation will make you van comfortable. You can live in it without the insulation but it won't be too comfortable. Less then 100 dollars, and very easy to install. You can see in my picture, I cut a small square, hot glue it, then cut another square and hotglue that, no ruler needed. Doesnt even have to be straight, fill in the gaps with more foam. Its like a jigsaw puzzle. Just make sure you cover all the baremetal.

 

[QinReno]

There was a thread working out a van build costing no more than $750 (not including the van).  I can't find it now, but I agree that kind of starting out thread would be good.   ~crofter

Not counting a bunch of little stuff, my van NON-conversion cost as follows for the major items. I did have all the camping gear already.

- 8" mattress = $99 (at the time).
- folding wooden computer desk = $96.
- 100W solar including panel, charger, battery and inverter = $350.
- small cabinet to house all the solar stuff = $50.
- Reflectix cut out for window inserts = $25.
- (old) blankets on the walls for decoration = $0.
- storage is in boxes under the mattress, so no additional cabinets needed.

But my van NON-build is the equivalent of a monk's closet. It all comes out in 15-minutes, no permanent attachments. Not for everyone.

 

[QinReno]

I wouldnt worry too much about that, ....

Thanks for all the info !!!

 

[Roamer]

I strongly recommend you do not use an air mattress.  They are unreliable.  You will be a very unhappy camper at 3:00 in the morning when it goes flat.  Many of them also make noise when you move and are uncomfortable.  A good night's sleep is too important.  I constantly see mattress toppers going on sale in various stores.  I recommend at least 3 inches of foam.  Even better, buy a 3 inch queen size, cut it in half lengthwise and stack them to get 6 inches.  Sheets will be MUCH easier to keep clean and launder than a sleeping bag.  A warm soft comfortable stocking hat will do a lot to help keep you warm.  Thermal underwear can be your best friend.  A pee bottle with twice the capacity you think you will need.  An emergency poop bucket with garbage bags, cause you never know when an urgent situation might arise.  You do NOT want to be arrested for squatting in someone's flower bed!  A 5v power brick to recharge/power your phone/tablet all night because you will want some entertainment and to stay connected to the world.  Keep all your food in tightly sealed plastic boxes/tubs.  Food laying about encourages vermin/bugs.

 

[Genie]

Yep.. I spent one NORCAL winter in a van with zero insulation, not even wall paneling. Just two throw rugs on the bare metal floor with an Ikea brand futon mattress ontop. It was utterly miserable. I woke up just abut every morning damp from condensation, mold was a constant problem, and I had a small room heater I could use when I had access to shore power, but whenever I used it, it just made the condensation problems worse.

All I had in that van was: My clothes, a room heater I barely ever got to use, a 0-degree sleeping bag, a battery box with inverter for my coffee machine, an MSR camping cooking pot, a stainless steel coffee mug and a gasoline fueled 1 burner cooking stove. That was it... Not even a port-a-potty..... The conversion van windows leaked like crazy, and what broke the camels back was waking up one night during a rain storm choking on water I inhaled in my sleep from a SOAKED pillow from that leaky window. Then discovering that mold had started to grow ON MY DOG's HEAD.... That was it.. I couldn't take it anymore.
The next morning, I bought a used class-b RV. Best cash I've ever spent.. I'm in the lap of luxury now compared to that winter.

But, I learned ALOT from that experience. I know whats possible, and I can do it all again if I had too with one important thing... A dehumidifier.... If I had one during that winter... I'd probably still be living in that van..

One helleva visual, LOL.

 

[_KJ_]

I have an 07 Dodge Grand Caravan and I’m itching to remove the sto n go seats! I’m not concerned about keeping them for resale, the room under the floor is massive.
I’m concerned that the seats stored below are helping insulate so I’m heasitant to take them out without being prepared to insulate but I don’t know what to do for insulation that would be frugal and easy to do myself.

Any one have any experience removing the sto n go seats from the Dodge Grand Caravan?
If this isn’t allowed in this thread, please let me know and I’ll start a new one

 

[becida]

I pulled the seats out of an '05 Town & Country & put the middle pass side one back as a place to sit. I just tossed those heavy suckers..

I noticed no change in the inside temps but I did put stuff in the now empty space. 
I ran a piece of plywood over the rear hole on the pass side & put my two house batteries there. The solar controller & fuse panel were mounted to the side just above the batteries. I snaked the solar cables thru the back door hinge area to the 100w panel mounted between the roof racks.
I made my kitchen in the back under the open hatch, it was a board that I laid on the bed when I wanted to cook (the bed ran down the drivers side).

It worked ok, kinda small if the weather was bad & I had to say inside.

 

[_KJ_]

Ok yes that is precisely what I want to do. With the house battery and everything
A bit nervous though as I’m not that handy and don’t have tools.

Time to find a scrap yard with a kind owner to help me remove them.

I want to take out the passenger seat as well but again, not sure about it.

 

[slynne]

I just got a 2010 VW Routan and because I am risk averse, I am going to just stow the stow-n-go seats for now. I am going to do a NON build. No insulation but I have a sun roof which I can open to keep cool and winter camping skills for the colder times. I figure I will need the following

1. A place to sleep - getting a twin size mattress and a cheap bed frame so I can have storage underneath. I can't do an air mattress. They are too cold and too uncomfortable. I need a real bed. Even if it ends up taking all of my space. 
2. A place to sit - getting a zero gravity chair for outside and I guess will use the drivers seat or extra cushions on the bed for sitting
3. A place to work - I haven't figure this out yet. I thought maybe a lap desk?
4. power - getting a battery that can be charged while I am driving to run my CPAP at night. Eventually will put solar on the roof 
5. A place to potty - bucket and she-we or similar and bottle 
6. A place to cook - An electric kettle and perhaps a small single burner camp stove. I don't really like cooking though so will probably bring a cooler and lots of fruits and prepared salads which will keep me kind of healthy between trips through the drive thru
7. Something to keep me warm - I have lots of blankets and a dog
8. Something to keep me cool - A fan and a sunroof
9. Something to keep the bugs out. - I am thinking I might go to to the hardware store to buy some screening that I can attach outside of the windows with strong magnets. 

So that is my bare minimum. I think it will cost me between $500-$750 depending on how nice of a mattress I end up getting.

 

[closeanuf]

KJ I believe there is a thread here somewhere where someone removed their stow n go seats; someone will probably post the link; I would if I could.

 

[velojym]

I had a Chevy Express for a short time (GAH! Shoulda kept it!), and thought about using it for expedited freight. I'd keep a folding cot and my supplies up front, against the back of the seats, while leaving space in back for a couple pallets of freight.

Also thought about something less formal, like uShip. Either way, I'd put some insulation up and leave the cargo area mostly available for cargo, deploying my bed and other amenities when in "home" mode.