Astro / Safari.... Various Thoughts
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Thanks Unity Gain for all those pics, very very helpful! Brian is 6'4" so he had to have a long bed, his takes the whole side of the van but even so it was surprisingly comfotable for him. It was one of the rare "high" top Astros.
On Katies build in the picture you see the bed is tall enough to get two plastic drawers underneath, but she found it too low to sit up in bed so she lowered it to the height of a single mile crate.
One thing that Astros have going for them is that AWD versions can be made very capable in the back-country. I have a friend who lives in one and he put a 6 inch lift on it and 35 inch mud tires and he can take it some very amazing places!!!!:
On Katies build in the picture you see the bed is tall enough to get two plastic drawers underneath, but she found it too low to sit up in bed so she lowered it to the height of a single mile crate.
One thing that Astros have going for them is that AWD versions can be made very capable in the back-country. I have a friend who lives in one and he put a 6 inch lift on it and 35 inch mud tires and he can take it some very amazing places!!!!:
One Awesome Inch
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Hmmm... I am about 6ft tall so assuming Katie is shorter I'd likely have problems with bumping my head too. Not good. I definitely need under the bed storage, even going minimalist.
I think what I need to do is go to an auto wreckers and check out various vans, measure interiors etc.
I think what I need to do is go to an auto wreckers and check out various vans, measure interiors etc.
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Unity Gain, you can also go to a used car lot and tell the salesman you want to buy a van to turn in it into a camper and then crawl around and measure them.
I think going and spending time in them is one of the best things you can do! A junk yard has he advantage of not having a time limit until you seem weird.
Bob
I think going and spending time in them is one of the best things you can do! A junk yard has he advantage of not having a time limit until you seem weird.
Bob
Patrick46
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What on earth is that crazy thing on the roof there Bob?????? :huh:
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There's LOTS of stuff on the roof, so I'll say what it all is. St the front of the van you can see one of his two 140 watt solar panels. At the back is his roof rack packed to the gills with all his stuff. That is a married COUPLE living in that Astro so they have a LOT of stuff and to make it all fit a bunch of it goes on the roof. Obviously they are boondockers so they set up a very nice camp and stay in it for awhile.
Probably what you are asking about is the thing with the 4 rings on it on the side of the pile on top. It is an over the air TV antenna from Amazon. They did a blog post for me on it and it works extremely well. They routinely get all the broadcast stations.
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/
Bob
Probably what you are asking about is the thing with the 4 rings on it on the side of the pile on top. It is an over the air TV antenna from Amazon. They did a blog post for me on it and it works extremely well. They routinely get all the broadcast stations.
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/
Bob
One Awesome Inch
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Had a chance to get down to the auto wreckers today and came away with a few thoughts.
As has been mentioned numerous times on this forum interior height is uber important. I went and measured the interior of a Safari (same as Astro) and it was roughly 47 inches high just behind the seats in the middle of the floor. Very unlikely to get much under bed storage there. I found it quite awkward to move around inside that van and I was only in it for a couple of minutes. I also found it to be about 91 inches in length and about 65 inches in width. These are all rough measurements so please take them with a grain of salt.
I then checked out a year 2000 Savanah and a 1995 E250. They had very similar interior measurements with the E250 being just a tad longer being the only real difference. I recall the e250 was 110 inches long and the Savanah about 105. On both vans I got 55 inches in height and and 73 inches wide. Much better and definitely do-able. Its amazing what a difference those 7 or 8 inches in height make.
I also checked out a 90s Ford Windstar and 90s Dodge Caravan and both had an interior height of about 47 inches. Once that was established I didnt bother measuring lengths and widths. The height makes them a no-go for me.
When all is said and done I could live in the Astro/safari but it would be difficult. The full sized Ford and Chevy vans are significantly bigger and I am sure I would have enough room in them.
As has been mentioned numerous times on this forum interior height is uber important. I went and measured the interior of a Safari (same as Astro) and it was roughly 47 inches high just behind the seats in the middle of the floor. Very unlikely to get much under bed storage there. I found it quite awkward to move around inside that van and I was only in it for a couple of minutes. I also found it to be about 91 inches in length and about 65 inches in width. These are all rough measurements so please take them with a grain of salt.
I then checked out a year 2000 Savanah and a 1995 E250. They had very similar interior measurements with the E250 being just a tad longer being the only real difference. I recall the e250 was 110 inches long and the Savanah about 105. On both vans I got 55 inches in height and and 73 inches wide. Much better and definitely do-able. Its amazing what a difference those 7 or 8 inches in height make.
I also checked out a 90s Ford Windstar and 90s Dodge Caravan and both had an interior height of about 47 inches. Once that was established I didnt bother measuring lengths and widths. The height makes them a no-go for me.
When all is said and done I could live in the Astro/safari but it would be difficult. The full sized Ford and Chevy vans are significantly bigger and I am sure I would have enough room in them.
Greetings!
Comfort has always been high on my priority list, and at the expense of a little gas mileage, I'll take the biggest, longest, high top van I can get.
That's a trade off I'm willing to accept. And when you consider that I bought this van over 12 years ago, for $700, and upkeep has been minimal for the 500k plus miles I've put on her, the gas she wants is minimal in comparison to all the money she has saved me, and the comfort she has provided for me.
Being a minimalist is great, but NOT at the expense of comfort. That cost is just too high. If I got 40 MPG and lived in a regular house or apartment, it would still cost me many times more than it does with my lifestyle, and I wouldn't be one bit more comfortable than I am now.
If for some reason I was forced to leave the road, I would still choose to live in my poor old camper van, it is home, and the most comfortable I've ever had, and I've had many...
Cheers!
The CamperVan_Man
Comfort has always been high on my priority list, and at the expense of a little gas mileage, I'll take the biggest, longest, high top van I can get.
That's a trade off I'm willing to accept. And when you consider that I bought this van over 12 years ago, for $700, and upkeep has been minimal for the 500k plus miles I've put on her, the gas she wants is minimal in comparison to all the money she has saved me, and the comfort she has provided for me.
Being a minimalist is great, but NOT at the expense of comfort. That cost is just too high. If I got 40 MPG and lived in a regular house or apartment, it would still cost me many times more than it does with my lifestyle, and I wouldn't be one bit more comfortable than I am now.
If for some reason I was forced to leave the road, I would still choose to live in my poor old camper van, it is home, and the most comfortable I've ever had, and I've had many...
Cheers!
The CamperVan_Man
Belinda2
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Thank you Unity Gain. You are a gem. I will slowly ponder, also, each of your findings.
Unity Gain said:
There is a big difference a few inches of height can make. I have 2 Vanagons. The first one I bought was a hard top 4x4 that is a longer term project. The second I bought was a pop top westy. The camper version.
The westy has a fiberglass top for the pop up section and even with the top down, it adds a extra 5 or 6 inches inside to the standing room. Just this little bit makes a world of difference.
Added bonus, is there is a roof vent sky light and I can pop it forward like a boat hatch. Let's me poke my head out and stand up inside if I want to. The hatch also makes it extremely easy to clean my solar panels.
One Awesome Inch
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Belinda2 said:
You are most welcome, Belinda.
In the end, the question becomes is the extra stealth of the Astro worth its short height & subsequent discomfort?
For me the answer is definitely 'no'.
I am confident I can find places to park a standard looking large white cargo van without raising suspicion. A big part of this is making sure there are no external indications of possible habitation. No noticeable vents, no sunroof/fan bumps on the roof. windows completely light blocked etc etc.
Belinda2
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Unity Gain,
I totally agree about the stealth. I've put a 100 watt bulb in the vehicle I use now at night to check for any light that is showing. I've never once been questioned since I started in 1991. Aren't you worried about having a gas gulping V8 verses a V6? The Nissan NV 1500, which is commercial so it has no mpg rating, is a V6. Do you think it gets the same as the Chevy Express cargo 1500 V6 which is 16/19 mpg? Have you thought of any ideas for a high top that is shorter like a conversion van or even getting one at a junk yard? Last night I went right after closing time and made my measurements on the vehicles. It's so much better then dealing with the sales people which are a big waste of my time. When I do have to speak with them, I tell them I am trying to turn it into a wheelchair van. I refuse to give them any further information and act frustrated, telling them I am trying to think and act like I will leave if they persist. Then, they leave me alone with the vehicle. You are smart about the height and the answer being the large, white cargo van.
I totally agree about the stealth. I've put a 100 watt bulb in the vehicle I use now at night to check for any light that is showing. I've never once been questioned since I started in 1991. Aren't you worried about having a gas gulping V8 verses a V6? The Nissan NV 1500, which is commercial so it has no mpg rating, is a V6. Do you think it gets the same as the Chevy Express cargo 1500 V6 which is 16/19 mpg? Have you thought of any ideas for a high top that is shorter like a conversion van or even getting one at a junk yard? Last night I went right after closing time and made my measurements on the vehicles. It's so much better then dealing with the sales people which are a big waste of my time. When I do have to speak with them, I tell them I am trying to turn it into a wheelchair van. I refuse to give them any further information and act frustrated, telling them I am trying to think and act like I will leave if they persist. Then, they leave me alone with the vehicle. You are smart about the height and the answer being the large, white cargo van.
One Awesome Inch
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Sorry I can't speak to the MPG of various vans as I am just learning about this stuff myself. When I go to buy a van I will definitely opt for a V6. I am not concerned about power but definitely want to save on gas as much as I can. Where I live the vehicles in the junk yards are pretty scavanged already so buying something running from them is unlikely. And yeah, car salesmen... yuck. I avoid them at all costs.
Great idea about putting the 100w bulb in to check for light.
Great idea about putting the 100w bulb in to check for light.
Greetings!
I think everyone is spending way too much time worrying about stealth and gas mileage and not nearly enough time considering comfort...
Living in a van is much different than just occasional camping in one. Ultimate comfort is what makes the difference between looking forward to going home, and dreading it. Sacrificing a little fuel economy for me is a no brainer, comfort is more important, MUCH more important...
In the summer, it's okay to say "My living room is the great outdoors...", but what about that week or more of pouring down rain, or snow, or ice, when you're going to want to be inside and stay warm and comfortable. Are you going to have the room to do that in? It can and does happen, maybe even longer than a week... Are you going to be happy & healthy, or getting leg cramps and an aching back?
The overall difference between the costs of a full size comfortable van and a mini-van are small in comparison to the differences of livability.
Who cares if that comfortable gas guzzling van costs you an extra $100/month in fuel, that's a bargain compared to just paying the electric bill on a regular house or apartment.
A 10 MPG difference is only going to translate into about $100 @ $4.00/gal over 1,000 miles, and I doubt most people are averaging more than that mileage per month. Most people spend a whole lot more time parked than they do driving.
Just do the math, how many miles did you drive last year? Figure out the difference in gas mileage/cost versus comfort, then honestly ask yourself if your comfort is worth that amount of fuel savings. The cost of that extra comfort is probably smaller than what you thought...
That full sized van can still park in any regular parking spot, just like a mini-van. The cost of the extra gas is the only major difference.
Cheers!
The CamperVan_Man
I think everyone is spending way too much time worrying about stealth and gas mileage and not nearly enough time considering comfort...
Living in a van is much different than just occasional camping in one. Ultimate comfort is what makes the difference between looking forward to going home, and dreading it. Sacrificing a little fuel economy for me is a no brainer, comfort is more important, MUCH more important...
In the summer, it's okay to say "My living room is the great outdoors...", but what about that week or more of pouring down rain, or snow, or ice, when you're going to want to be inside and stay warm and comfortable. Are you going to have the room to do that in? It can and does happen, maybe even longer than a week... Are you going to be happy & healthy, or getting leg cramps and an aching back?
The overall difference between the costs of a full size comfortable van and a mini-van are small in comparison to the differences of livability.
Who cares if that comfortable gas guzzling van costs you an extra $100/month in fuel, that's a bargain compared to just paying the electric bill on a regular house or apartment.
A 10 MPG difference is only going to translate into about $100 @ $4.00/gal over 1,000 miles, and I doubt most people are averaging more than that mileage per month. Most people spend a whole lot more time parked than they do driving.
Just do the math, how many miles did you drive last year? Figure out the difference in gas mileage/cost versus comfort, then honestly ask yourself if your comfort is worth that amount of fuel savings. The cost of that extra comfort is probably smaller than what you thought...
That full sized van can still park in any regular parking spot, just like a mini-van. The cost of the extra gas is the only major difference.
Cheers!
The CamperVan_Man
One Awesome Inch
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I generally agree. Comfort is super important and when the time comes I will be buying the best quality, most comfortable bed/foam I can find. Having the extra height and space of the larger van is definitely worth the extra cost.
However, stealth is extremely important to me. Since I will be in the same area all the time I cannot afford to be found out by the cops. If I even just have one incident they will likely be keeping an eye out for me, I'd be blown and I'd be in a world of trouble. I love my job and so I must stay in the same area.
However, stealth is extremely important to me. Since I will be in the same area all the time I cannot afford to be found out by the cops. If I even just have one incident they will likely be keeping an eye out for me, I'd be blown and I'd be in a world of trouble. I love my job and so I must stay in the same area.
WheelEstate USA
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A "Plain Jane" white cargo van is about as stealth as you can ask for. They blend in about anywhere. Drive around residential areas and you see them all over the place. They sit in lots all night undisturbed.
Personally, I think covered windows draw more attention than top vents and roof racks camouflaging a few solar panels.
Personally, I think covered windows draw more attention than top vents and roof racks camouflaging a few solar panels.
Belinda2
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CamperVan_Man,
I respectfully don't agree. Stealth is my number one priority. You have been allowed to park at the same spot where you live for years. The neighbors approve of you and the cops have grandfathered you in with the no camping sign that is posted for that street now. The rest of us are moving our vehicles several times a day to remain stealth. If I get caught and get ANYTHING on a criminal record, my job and career is OVER. I can't take even one run in with the police. That's why I am on this site spending hours contemplating the correct vehicle, supplies, and set-up.
I respectfully don't agree. Stealth is my number one priority. You have been allowed to park at the same spot where you live for years. The neighbors approve of you and the cops have grandfathered you in with the no camping sign that is posted for that street now. The rest of us are moving our vehicles several times a day to remain stealth. If I get caught and get ANYTHING on a criminal record, my job and career is OVER. I can't take even one run in with the police. That's why I am on this site spending hours contemplating the correct vehicle, supplies, and set-up.
MPG is a confusing way of calculating it I think for people who aren't used to it, because it varies so much. Intuitively many people think it is the same regardless of what you are doing, not realizing it is dependent on the consumption you are starting from.The CamperVan_Man said:
If your comparing a 10mpg vehicle to a 20mpg vehicle
you are using 50 gallons less to go 1000 miles (100 gallons vs 50 gallons consumed) for a savings of 200$
However from 20mpg to 30 mpg you are using 16.7 gallons less.(50 gallons vs 33.33 gallons) for a savings of only 67$.
Unity Gain said:
Greetings!
Where are you located? I'm guessing in the Vancouver BC area, since I saw you post a CL ad from there... VBC has a huge van dwelling community, so I'm guessing it's not illegal... From what I've read, pretty much all of Canada is Full Timer Friendly...
Cheers!
The CamperVan_Man
