Any Graphic Designers Out There-Have a Question

[Frood]

I think humble bundle still has the entire Corel grapic/video suite on sale for something like $30 now too.

 

[WatusiLucy]

I'm changing careers. I have two choices. One is design. I'm definitely a novice but absolutely love it and would love to immerse myself into an education about it, in school or solo.

I've been asking questions. So far, I've gone to 2 forums of seasoned, professional designers who have been in the industry a while. I explained I was 40 and was concerned if I would be marketable by the time I'm done with school (I could be anywhere from 43 to 45 years old). I also explained I didn't want to struggle into my fifties and sixties, and additionally, be too late to change careers at that point. I want a steady living and retirement of some kind, not be a poor 70-something heating my apartment with a gas oven.

The response from both forums was:

1. Ageism prominently existing in the industry will hurt me
2. Along with #1, I will be competing with a hoard of 20 somethings corporations are hiring for cheap.
3. Just as there is with Photography, there is an equally sized hoard of DIY, homebodies flooding the industry as well, that are doing cheap work that I'll be competing with
4. To sum up 2 and 3, there are or will be more designers than there is work to go around
5. Two designers told me flat out, "Don't Do it" (including if his kid came to him saying so, he'd encourage him to go elsewhere)

Any seasoned designers out there concur? Asked this beccause I thought Van Dwelling had its demographic of remote workers and designers can fall into that category.

Thanks,
Rabbit

I read the entire thread. You mention you have two choices for study. What is the other choice besides graphic design? Please read all:
I’m 67 and if I was a youngster age 50 with paid school GI bill, (I personally, I’m talking about me, not you) would get an art and theatre degree and be a theatre arts teacher at some small college or high school or junior high because getting any size paycheck to do what I have always loved would be heaven.
All my jobs have been going after money to keep the wolf from the door and they don’t even do that. Courier jobs, hairdressing, electronic manufacturing, market research, all cr-p and I wasted my precious time and was poor anyway.
Even when I was trying to learn the technical side of graphics at college in the early 80s, I resisted going into the theatre arts dept door because it was illogical. I knew if I walked in that door I would never come out and everyone knows it doesn’t pay anything. It was calling me and I resisted with all my might which was a huge mistake as now I know you must follow the nudges of the universe.
My advice is choose as a career what you would happily do for free the rest of your life and you have natural talent for, no matter how illogical it seems and don’t ask anyone for input. Spend a lot of quiet time alone daydreaming about what that is. If you would happily tinker with model trains 24/7 or build out vans or put in solar or throw pots on a wheel, healing, writing, math, art, psychology, counseling, photojournalism, whatever it is, choose that and become a master at it. In time people seek you out and pay you whatever you want.
Use the free schooling. Use it for yourself, your dreams. Don’t fit into anyones box. That person or counselor won’t be with you at age 80 if you look back and kick yourself for choosing a soul sapping cr-p career.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

for a few years before the pandemic I worked for an international hospitality company.
It's a name that is pretty well known for luxury.
I was hired to handle account administration and look after Mac users, as the current IT staff was ignorant of Mac stuff.
Of course in corporations of any size, Macs are usually confined to the graphics department. Not that you cannot do graphics on PC. It's just kind of a tradition at this point. (though Apple does a pretty good job of color space management on it's laptops and desktops with built in monitors).
I mention this because those poor ladies were worked hard. They had them pulling overtime days almost every single week.
And there was more than one occasion they had to work through the weekend.
Graphic design seems like an easier job when compared to working in sales or doing carpentry etc. But like any other job tied to a computer these days, it's under pressure from talent in parts of the world where the cost of living is a lot lower.
So your only competitive assets are your physical proximity and ability to speak English.
Seeing as many of these countries teach English as part of public school curriculum, don't count on that second advantage too much.
Some may advise you to get into web development. That is feasible if you are math inclined and very organized.
But it has the same qualifiers. You need to be able to work fast and produce results.
About 3/4ths of the job is trouble shooting bugs. So you have to be able to keep a cool head while finding out why the thing you carefully built on your laptop acts like a spoiled brat child when you upload to the servers.

 

[Jon Donahue]

I'm changing careers. I have two choices. One is design. I'm definitely a novice but absolutely love it and would love to immerse myself into an education about it, in school or solo.

I've been asking questions. So far, I've gone to 2 forums of seasoned, professional designers who have been in the industry a while. I explained I was 40 and was concerned if I would be marketable by the time I'm done with school (I could be anywhere from 43 to 45 years old). I also explained I didn't want to struggle into my fifties and sixties, and additionally, be too late to change careers at that point. I want a steady living and retirement of some kind, not be a poor 70-something heating my apartment with a gas oven.

The response from both forums was:

1. Ageism prominently existing in the industry will hurt me
2. Along with #1, I will be competing with a hoard of 20 somethings corporations are hiring for cheap.
3. Just as there is with Photography, there is an equally sized hoard of DIY, homebodies flooding the industry as well, that are doing cheap work that I'll be competing with
4. To sum up 2 and 3, there are or will be more designers than there is work to go around
5. Two designers told me flat out, "Don't Do it" (including if his kid came to him saying so, he'd encourage him to go elsewhere)

Any seasoned designers out there concur? Asked this beccause I thought Van Dwelling had its demographic of remote workers and designers can fall into that category.

Thanks,
Rabbit

There's a free PDF book on my website, jon404.com, 'Drawing For Money' .... which goes over many ways to make a good living as an artist. Problem is that van life is mobile. Sure, you can sell and deliver over the internet... but it would be much easier to build up a client list in a fixed location first, and then hit the road. Technically, no problem to be mobile... a halfway-decent laptop, the WiFi hotspot on your phone, and off you go. Photoshop and Illustrator... or a great British program, Xara Photo & Graphic Designer, that does both bitmap and line art. Used it for 20 years. Acrobat... you will be delivering PDFs. You'll also deliver JPGs.
Good luck! Jon in Tombstone

 

[wanderin.pat]

Hey, a possible solution would be what I'm doing. I live in an RV park in Southern NM, I'm about the only guy here who knows squat about computers (I had a 35 year career in Corporate IT... I used to work for Digital Equipment Corp as an onsite consultant). So, I'm trading my expertise for free rent. I manage a club database and the business app that surrounds it. Not getting rich, but staying busy enough, and getting enough free time to pursue other interests.

As time goes on, I'm looking for other things I can do.

 

[grumpygrizzly]

If you like designing, consider taking some architecture classes at your local community college and learn to use AutoCad.

I've been using it since it was Release 10 and I have version 2010 on my laptop and since I was an AutoDesk techie for a reseller, I recieved a Not For Resale Version to learn it so I could talk to customers about it. Well, I haven't had to update it in all the years I've been using it and I've got tons of customizations built into it that I use more than the regular commands.

I drop ads on Craigslist about drawing floorplans/house plans and pretty much every time I put renew it, I get 3 or more hits.

I go out, measure what they have, find out what they're looking to do, go back and draw it up and send them a pdf without dimensions until I get the final payment. I've also come to where I charge at least $50 just to go out and look at their ideas and don't start drawing anything until I have half of m estimate paid.

That was an expensive lesson to learn and I drew a LOT of floorplans and sent them to clients and never heard a peep back from them. That's why I changed my ways. Money up front. I'll send them a completed drawing minus any dimensions or notes they'll need for a permit so they can see what it is they're getting. Then when they send me the final check, I'll turn on the text layer, save it to a .pdf and email it to them..

 

[eDJ_]

How many here have approached Chamber of Commerce offices ? Small Business organizations etc and presented them one of your business cards ? Explained what you do and that you are looking for clients ? Asked if you could attend some of their meetings to show some samples of your work ? Ironic as it may sound, there are those going into business who know little of what visual communication with their market that graphic arts can do for them. They know all about management, marketing, accounting etc though. Some even have some sales experience, but even they didn't design any of the attractive packing graphics, or advertisements for the products they were selling.

So often these small biz types go out looking for Sign shops or a Sign Painter believing such people can do everything they need. But a vehicle with a sign on it or a sign on the store front window can only do so much. That is if they can even find a sign painter these days. (I've worked in Outdoor Advertising & sigh shops and can tell some stories about some of the business types I've worked around)

Any commercial artist of any field can certainly benefit from some business schooling to go with their trade in the arts. Especially in marketing. If the business person comes to you wanting help, letting them know you have some business schooling yourself will help build some trust with them from the beginning

When I was in Art School some of the Alumni would return and lecture. I noticed a number of them continued their education with some business schooling. It seemed to give them credibility with the business people they worked for and secured return business for them.

 

[bettersimplerlife]

How many here have approached Chamber of Commerce offices ? Small Business organizations etc and presented them one of your business cards ? Explained what you do and that you are looking for clients ? Asked if you could attend some of their meetings to show some samples of your work ? Ironic as it may sound, there are those going into business who know little of what visual communication with their market that graphic arts can do for them. They know all about management, marketing, accounting etc though. Some even have some sales experience, but even they didn't design any of the attractive packing graphics, or advertisements for the products they were selling.

So often these small biz types go out looking for Sign shops or a Sign Painter believing such people can do everything they need. But a vehicle with a sign on it or a sign on the store front window can only do so much. That is if they can even find a sign painter these days. (I've worked in Outdoor Advertising & sigh shops and can tell some stories about some of the business types I've worked around)

Any commercial artist of any field can certainly benefit from some business schooling to go with their trade in the arts. Especially in marketing. If the business person comes to you wanting help, letting them know you have some business schooling yourself will help build some trust with them from the beginning

When I was in Art School some of the Alumni would return and lecture. I noticed a number of them continued their education with some business schooling. It seemed to give them credibility with the business people they worked for and secured return business for them.

I did that. Got nowhere. First, they will require that you "join" their chamber (read: expensive) and even when I did, I never got a single piece of business from them. This is just my personal experience (been a web and graphic designer since 1996) but all of the business I received, was from word of mouth.

 

[SilentJim1980]

What others have said basically I think is true. It all boils down to finding a niche, commodity that appeals to (hopefully) a lot of people that they are willing to pay for the service. As someone who has learned by completely teaching myself aspects of Adobe's products (Photoshop primarily, After Effects (which I tinker with every now & then), and video editing (which I hate). I've time & time again have done freelance work (graphic design & tech support) for family & friends, they offer to pay me (I refuse) because I don't think I'm that good enough for one & it's a hobby. The minute you (I) take payment then it becomes a job & becomes "Work" & I'm a firm believer in don't mix business with pleasure.

"They" say "Do what you love" (as a job) & you'll not hate it, I beg to differ because the thing you love will now have deadlines, stress, etc., etc. If you truly want to be a graphics designer then by all means do it. Find a way to incorporate your love of that with van life, design van murals, vinyl wraps, window/bumper stickers, anything & everything that could have a picture printed or stuck on it, make it.

In today's world, you have everyone from "old fogies" to tweens & the Tide Pod Generation trying to make a buck doing whatever they can for clicks, likes & views. The key to their success...are the idiots....in my opinion, but that's just me, that are willing to pay for whatever they're selling. They've managed to get a finger into a lot of pie's by diversifying what they are doing be it ad revenue (which is where the money is at, for the moment) from video's, clicks, views, influencing, live streaming, promotion, merchandise, content creation...the list goes on & on.

The same I think applies to graphic design as much as anything else. Today's tech is yesterday's news, the tech world is changing & evolving so rapidly that someone, somewhere will buy that basket that was woven underwater "Just Because".

Personally, I would & sometimes do, freelance as a graphic designer. It will be hard though I think because it's a necessity to diversify what you are doing & how you go about it. You are your own boss & set your own hours, pay, etc., but when your not working you better be promoting yourself, making back of the van deals, standing on the corner dealing out business cards (in a dime bag), or something because you have to compete with all the others trying to make a living any which way they can.

 

[eDJ_]

I did that. Got nowhere. First, they will require that you "join" their chamber (read: expensive) and even when I did, I never got a single piece of business from them. This is just my personal experience (been a web and graphic designer since 1996) but all of the business I received, was from word of mouth.

I can understand that as so many office bureaucrats will pitch that (give us money) so they can get back to their Facebook (particularly when a real boss isn't there) Sadly it's an indication of the business climate in that area. You just have to keep knocking on doors. ...and that's a lot of work/wasted time that many just get sick of doing. But tirelessly promoting your work is a major part of staying in business and making money. Having a day or night job where you just have to be there to answer the phone or something similar may allow for some time to work on your projects and get paid too. If you can bootstrap your business to a point you have all the work you want or need you may no longer need the job. But moonlighting is a strategy many use to establish.

 

[grumpygrizzly]

I can understand that as so many office bureaucrats will pitch that (give us money) so they can get back to their Facebook (particularly when a real boss isn't there) Sadly it's an indication of the business climate in that area. You just have to keep knocking on doors. ...and that's a lot of work/wasted time that many just get sick of doing. But tirelessly promoting your work is a major part of staying in business and making money. Having a day or night job where you just have to be there to answer the phone or something similar may allow for some time to work on your projects and get paid too. If you can bootstrap your business to a point you have all the work you want or need you may no longer need the job. But moonlighting is a strategy many use to establish.

 

[A Wing and a Prayer]

I started taking Graphic Design and art classes while working in a grocery store, a job that I hated. I just knew that I loved design and even though there were students who were younger and better at it than I was, I just wanted to improve my skills whether it got me anywhere or not. I ended up working for a mom and pop print shop as a designer for 4 years. Didn’t make a lot of money but I learned a lot. Quit that and became a preschool director/teacher, another job that didn’t pay a lot. I’m semi-retired now and am taking my experiences to forge a new path. I am writing and illustrating my own children’s stories. I don’t regret leaving the job that I hated to take less paying jobs. I may not be rich but I love my life now. I’m living my dream even if it took me awhile to get here.

 

[scaredycat72]

If you wake to work for somebody, breaking into a graphic design career is going to be a hard sell. I would look into opening your own company in web and graphic design and have your niche be older business owners. This is very much a generalization, but older people like to work with older people. They value knowledge and experience, even if you don't have it. And it's common knowledge, especially in sales, that people like to work work with who remind them of themselves in some way. That 50 year old will be happy to work with another 50 year old while looking at the 21 year old sideways. Personally, I don't want a 26 year old doctor or a 21 year old life coach. There are a lot of people like me in the world.

Everyone said Instagram was for the young and now older people are killing it out there. Same with YouTube. Age can be your niche. Find an industry that has a lot of older people and cater to them.

 

[Catalyst1]

If you wake to work for somebody, breaking into a graphic design career is going to be a hard sell. I would look into opening your own company in web and graphic design and have your niche be older business owners. This is very much a generalization, but older people like to work with older people. They value knowledge and experience, even if you don't have it. And it's common knowledge, especially in sales, that people like to work work with who remind them of themselves in some way. That 50 year old will be happy to work with another 50 year old while looking at the 21 year old sideways. Personally, I don't want a 26 year old doctor or a 21 year old life coach. There are a lot of people like me in the world.

Everyone said Instagram was for the young and now older people are killing it out there. Same with YouTube. Age can be your niche. Find an industry that has a lot of older people and cater to them.

Maybe AWAAP will produce things that are ageless or timeless. You never know. Good design is appreciated by people of all ages. BTW, studies showed that the doctors who made the most appropriate decisions, and who are most engaged, are about 2 years out of medical school. I'm an RN.

 

[scaredycat72]

Maybe AWAAP will produce things that are ageless or timeless. You never know. Good design is appreciated by people of all ages. BTW, studies showed that the doctors who made the most appropriate decisions, and who are most engaged, are about 2 years out of medical school. I'm an RN.

Thanks for the info. I saw those studies and then I saw studies that came to different conclusions. While I can believe newer doctors are more engaged, I don't believe they go from working under an experienced physician to knowing more than that experienced physician in their first two years out of med school. Either way, an older, more experienced physician works for me.