Annoying problem with 5th wheel inverter.
- Thread starter DW in ID
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bullfrog said:
Bullfrog, your question prompted me to go out and check because I couldn't remember but I assumed they were on the same breaker.
I've not done anything to sort this thing out for a couple yrs. now until we just returned home again this past Monday and posted the problem here.
Welll, as it turns out, the 4 that don't work are on the same breaker and it happens to be the breaker that charges the batteries. That so happens to be the one that I always shut off when boondocking so as not to be trying to charge the batteries from the batteries.
So, the mystery of why 4 go dead is solved, I guess...! Makes sense of course if the breaker they're hooked to is shut off.
But now I'm wondering why they're wired to that particular breaker to begin with? Doesn't that seem a bit strange? I've done lots of wiring but this is my first time screwing around with any RV wiring but it's pretty much the same as anything else for the most part short of the DC portion.
It sounds to me like the converter has some transposed wires. The wiring for those 4 outlets need to be moved to a proper breaker.
Would there be any particular/important reason they're wired into the one that charges the batteries? It doesn't seem right to me, but …?
DW
Wow...I think the OP owes us a beer.
tx2sturgis said:Wow...I think the OP owes us a beer.
Beer? That sounds good to me, you can all come by anytime, it' always cold...!
Not that it matters now but I just tried to post some pictures I took this am of everything but not sure how it's going to work, this forum format seems hard to follow navigate to me.
-If - these pics. actually get attached and go though, here's what they are...
1st pic. is the frnt. end of the batteries in general.
2nd. is he shut off switches to solar, main and inv.
3rd. is a breaker from the controller to the panels on the pos. cable. (That is the breaker I mentioned accidently shutting off when resetting the gfi on the inverter itself when it popped, -that red reset button is easily bumped when messing around in that small area.
4th. is how the controller and inv. is mounted on the back side of the wall from the batteries.
5th. is 12 ga. romex running to the L. side of trailer from inverter plug obviously not -hard wired- as someone asked.
6th. is the plug in for the main power cable when away from commercial power.
If the pics. do show up and out out of sequence, I'm sure they can be figured out.
For the original problem of dead outlets, I thisk I'll just find the breaker with the lightest load and move that circuit to them. There's possibly one breaker in the panel that got missed all together. Shouldn't be a big deal one way or another.
Thank you everyone for the help, ideas etc. The beer is cold.
Wow, this format seems very strange to get around in to me, but it's probably just me. Some pics. didn't attach here, I had doubles at first... I think most will be able to get the idea of what's what.
DW in ID.
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bullfrog said:
In the post #1, the OP says that he installed the batteries, inverter and solar. Doesn’t sound like it is the RV manufacturers fault.
There are some other unusual issues mentioned in post #1 like hooking the output of the inverter back as the input to trailer and then shutting off the converter to keep it from charging the batteries with the batteries. Seems like a better layout is needed.
Or at least put the converter on its own breaker so the other plugs can be left on.
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I think I'm missing [size=medium]something here, I'm not for real sure I follow your thoughts… [/size]Knit said:
I do have a breaker ahead of the inverter plug that I added when I put the inverter in. In essence is what the shore power does, being fused in the main panel.
When plugged into shore power, the batteries are obviously going to want to charge from the converter as normal.
When plugged into the inverter their still going to want to charge from the converter as normal and the batteries charging batteries is what -I didn’t want- so I would shut the battery charging breaker off when using the inverter.
All other breakers stay on (or as you put it, plugs) suppling ac to the other circuits as shore power would normally do.
After finally taking time to look closer to see why that one circuit went dead only when using the inverter, I found that they had wired that one circuit into the same breaker that charged the batteries. Obviously when I shut that charging breaker off it killed power to the circuit that shared it.
There were no empty breakers to use and the panel had two unused spots, rather than have a breaker doubled up as they had it I added another breaker to the panel. Even though those plugs aren't used for anything... [size=medium]Their now on their own breaker. [/size]
[size=medium]For the purists who don't or can't get in and out of a the trailer easily, there would be a more 'dedicated' way of doing this. With the screwing with a transfer switch etc. etc., this very simplified method works in a safe manner … -as far as I can see-. Maybe there are lurking dangers I don't know about?[/size]
Weight said:
No kidding...
??? Here's a two sentence 'recap' from the original post. The concern wasn't about expecting an inverter (especially a 2K one) to run things as shore power will. ---"The inverter pretty much only comes into play when we're setup someplace in the woods. We use a coffee maker in the mornings plugged into a 110/120 outlet and my wife's hairdryer is about the only 110/120 appliances that are used.---"
DW in ID
It sounds like you solved the problem by separating the plugs that didn’t work from the converter. Congrats.
Part of my post was in reference to another poster who blamed the problem on the RV manufacturer. I was just pointing out that the RV manufacturer did not add the inverter.
I also mentioned that you plug the output of the inverter into the trailer as if it were shore power or a generator. I doubt there are many RV manufacturers that would wire an on-board inverter this way. But it sounds like you have it working for you. Again, congrats.
I don’t know if this poses a safety problem or what would happen if one of the really big loads like the air conditioner was turned on while on the inverter. Maybe it would be a good practice to also turn off the breakers to big loads when you turn the converter off to keep this from happening.
My RV has a single inverter/charging device. If it senses shore power then it operates as a charging device and passes the shore power along to a connected circuit. If there is no shore power and the inverter switch is on then it produces 120v AC power and powers the connected circuit. Because my inverter is only 750W and I only have about 200 Ah of battery storage the RV manufacturer intentionally only powered two plugs I think to remind me to not connect too many Watts to it. The way it is wired also prevents the use of really big loads like the air conditioning and microwave.
It sounds like you solved the problem by separating the plugs that didn’t work from the converter. Congrats.
Part of my post was in reference to another poster who blamed the problem on the RV manufacturer. I was just pointing out that the RV manufacturer did not add the inverter.
I also mentioned that you plug the output of the inverter into the trailer as if it were shore power or a generator. I doubt there are many RV manufacturers that would wire an on-board inverter this way. But it sounds like you have it working for you. Again, congrats.
I don’t know if this poses a safety problem or what would happen if one of the really big loads like the air conditioner was turned on while on the inverter. Maybe it would be a good practice to also turn off the breakers to big loads when you turn the converter off to keep this from happening.
My RV has a single inverter/charging device. If it senses shore power then it operates as a charging device and passes the shore power along to a connected circuit. If there is no shore power and the inverter switch is on then it produces 120v AC power and powers the connected circuit. Because my inverter is only 750W and I only have about 200 Ah of battery storage the RV manufacturer intentionally only powered two plugs I think to remind me to not connect too many Watts to it. The way it is wired also prevents the use of really big loads like the air conditioning and microwave.
Knit,
You’re right, no manufacture would setup an inverter that way. The manufacture has the responsibility to watch out for the idiot ‘end user’ that very likely doesn’t know an inverter from a smoke alarm to begin with. The manufactures have next to zero quality control but I think we can agree on them not doing that (maybe).
Our usage is a little different than most and poses no safety issues… First, it’s only my wife and I that use the trailer and we know not to try and run any high draw devices when dry camping.
Then, as mentioned earlier, the only appliances we use are a coffee maker in the AM and her hair dryer. On a couple occasions we’ve also used a toaster, that’s the extent of our ac use.
I’ve been doing it this way for going on 4 yrs. now and never tripped a breaker. We also used the same setup (on a smaller scale) in a 21 ft. trailer for 7 years before this, also w/no problems. Many (or most?) would run into problems with my setup simply because it’s all about using a little common sense.
We're thinking of buying a 24-SA Des. Fox Toy Hauler because I’m usually dragging a Polaris 1K RZR behind the 5th wheel whenever we're going somewhere. I don’t like dragging around that much length, a T. Hauler would cure that, so…
-IF- I decide to leave the solar stuff, or -at least the inverter- with the 5th wheel, I’ll definitely put in a transfer of some sort for the new owner. Then they should be covered. The balance of the solar system is idiot proof. Lol
Thanks again for the replies… DW
You’re right, no manufacture would setup an inverter that way. The manufacture has the responsibility to watch out for the idiot ‘end user’ that very likely doesn’t know an inverter from a smoke alarm to begin with. The manufactures have next to zero quality control but I think we can agree on them not doing that (maybe).
Our usage is a little different than most and poses no safety issues… First, it’s only my wife and I that use the trailer and we know not to try and run any high draw devices when dry camping.
Then, as mentioned earlier, the only appliances we use are a coffee maker in the AM and her hair dryer. On a couple occasions we’ve also used a toaster, that’s the extent of our ac use.
I’ve been doing it this way for going on 4 yrs. now and never tripped a breaker. We also used the same setup (on a smaller scale) in a 21 ft. trailer for 7 years before this, also w/no problems. Many (or most?) would run into problems with my setup simply because it’s all about using a little common sense.
We're thinking of buying a 24-SA Des. Fox Toy Hauler because I’m usually dragging a Polaris 1K RZR behind the 5th wheel whenever we're going somewhere. I don’t like dragging around that much length, a T. Hauler would cure that, so…
-IF- I decide to leave the solar stuff, or -at least the inverter- with the 5th wheel, I’ll definitely put in a transfer of some sort for the new owner. Then they should be covered. The balance of the solar system is idiot proof. Lol
Thanks again for the replies… DW
Just a FWIW.
I ran across this interesting video and thought it might be good to share with those who may not know any other way to setup an RV inverter other than to have a dealer do it... --(that is usually as clueless as the RV owner is anyway)--.
This is yet another person that is using an inverter in the ---exact--- duplication of the way I have the inverter setup in our 5th wheel trailer... The only differences is the person in the video is using 400 watts of solar vs. my 600 watts. He's apparently using 12 volt batteries vs. my 6 volt in series and parallel, he's using 3000 watt inverter vs. my 2000 watt inverter. Other than those differences, it's the same setup.
As mentioned in earlier posts, the purists will argue with this method of course for any number of reasons but it's an easy and safe way to use an inverter in an RV.
DW
I ran across this interesting video and thought it might be good to share with those who may not know any other way to setup an RV inverter other than to have a dealer do it... --(that is usually as clueless as the RV owner is anyway)--.
This is yet another person that is using an inverter in the ---exact--- duplication of the way I have the inverter setup in our 5th wheel trailer... The only differences is the person in the video is using 400 watts of solar vs. my 600 watts. He's apparently using 12 volt batteries vs. my 6 volt in series and parallel, he's using 3000 watt inverter vs. my 2000 watt inverter. Other than those differences, it's the same setup.
As mentioned in earlier posts, the purists will argue with this method of course for any number of reasons but it's an easy and safe way to use an inverter in an RV.
DW
I always say if it works it’s not broken , When I was a kid fixing the engine in the first vehicle I got ( 1970 Ford pickup ) when I got the head off , I was about to order bigger valves and stuff . I was 15 Dad was the Chief Mechanic at the Highway dept. And he told me Keep It Simple Stupid haha . Needless to say the burnt valve got replaced with a stock oem one .
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