Alternative Winter Heating

[Headache]

I titled this thread so that various methods can be discussed.  Mind you this is for non-propane/alcohol/butane discussion.

Just got word I have to be out in November, no discussion.  I'll be coming down with what I have and what I can make with the materials I have on hand now.  I will not have any other heat source for the first 2 months(I don't think I'll have to wait that long but wanted some cushion just in case) except for this Lasko "MyHeat" personal heater if it's possible to use:

https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-101-Pe...1_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1KZ784STXKDS1SSN4XC2

Ignore that ceramic part, it's not ceramic.  Anyway, I used this to heat the cab of a medium duty truck and it actually provided some decent heat even when it was 40 degrees out.  I can make my space a little smaller by putting up blankets to "room" off my bed and put the animal crates underneath.  My cat I'm not as concerned about as I am my dog.  They are both burrowers when cold but my cat has a thicker coat than my wiener dog does.  My body doesn't always regulate well so I need a heat source if I get chilled to the bone.

Aside from the usual suspects like more blankets and all, is it possible to use that heater for a couple of months?  All there is in the van is the deep cycle battery which is not a house battery and I'll be bringing my old BP folding solar panels(I'm assuming they were 100 watt when new) with a charge controller but I have no idea how well they work as I'll have to hit up the solar store to rewire some kind of plug so I can hook it up to the van.

The details on the heater:

200 watts
2.5 amps

I'll need an inverter too.  I only have a 130 watt I use for my craptop.  I won't be charging my laptop and phone if I do this, I'll just head into town for that. 

Believe me, a mailbox woodstove is looking pretty good right now.  I'd like to be better prepared but heh, I'll do the best I can with what I have.  What say you?

 

[DannyB1954]

You will not be able to run that heater off of a vehicle battery. Watts is the amps times volts. When you use an inverter, it does not create energy. It transforms low voltage at high amperage to high voltage at low amperage. The watts stay the same. The inverter will also use some electricity in doing that.

That 2.5 amps is at 120 volts. Which comes out to 300 watts, (120 volts times 2.5 amps). The inverter will be using over 25 amps to supply that, (300 watts divided by 12 volts). A vehicle battery might be dead in two hours. Electricity in general is not a good source for heat. At 200 watts it would be 17 amps, (still too high for a vehicle battery).

If you burn anything, there should be some type of ventilation, ( windows cracked etc). Other things that you could use for heat might be candles. I would get the type made for camping. http://www.backcountry.com/gsi-outd...gclid=CJju3u77584CFYkCaQodi4wJ4g&gclsrc=aw.ds Tea candles can be had on sale cheap. https://www.amazon.com/Richland-Unscented-Tealight-Candles-White/dp/B001DIF3LO I would hang it from the ceiling with chain or wire, ( hard to tip it over if it is hanging).

Insulation is going to be the biggest factor in how warm you stay. If you can't budget in real insulation, you can do this, (Some will boo hoo this idea but in a pinch), gluing cardboard sheets together works. You can cut it easy and paint it with latex paint if you don't like the looks. You can often get it for free. A cardboard box has kept more than one sidewalk camper alive.

 

[DannyB1954]

I misread the original post. I understand it is not the vehicle battery. If you have a 100 amp hour battery it is acceptable to pull out half that if you charge it back up right away. So 50 divided by 17 = approx 3 hours of use. Charging that back up the following day may be an issue. I think one 100 panel and 1 battery is going to work.. I will let the solar experts come in from here.

 

[Headache]

Thanks on doing that math.  I'm quite horrible at it and until I get this little solar panel to the solar place, a generator, solar system, etc.  I'm at the mercy of what I can scrounge.  I may even try that kerosene brooder thingy.  I've got no problems dealing with kerosene appliances, I have windows I can crack open and a CO2 alarm, and this is a temporary situation.

However, an even HUGEr thanks regarding the cardboard because that is one material I could never run out of.  I have a good friend that owns a winery and they go through cardboard boxes like water.  If there's one thing he's very happy to help me out with it's cardboard!  

 

[skyl4rk]

I don't think a heater is necessary, at least in the SW AZ desert. We had a rv furnace and thought we would need it. After a few weeks we rarely turned it on, maybe for 5 minutes in the morning, and we regularly saw temps below 40F at night. The heater is more of a convenience and comfort thing rather than a necessity.

Warm blankets are good down to about freezing. Point the vehicle so morning sun comes through the windows. Heat up coffee or tea first thing then jump back under the blankets till it warms up. Put on warm clothes and have some comfortable warm footwear. Wear a hat or hoodie. It is usually warming up by 10 am, so sleep late. Are you really cold or sick? Run the motor for a while to heat up the interior.

 

[Headache]

I misread the original post. I understand it is not the vehicle battery. If you have a 100 amp hour battery it is acceptable to pull out half that if you charge it back up right away. So 50 divided by 17 = approx 3 hours of use. for all night, you would need at least double the batteries.  Charging that back up the following day may be an issue.

Hmmm, well I think I will skip using it just the same for now since it IS the vehicle battery, it's not a house battery.  I'd want it in the morning to take the chill off when I'm at my stiffest but I can do the same by driving into town and eating breakfast in the van while I play on the wifi and feed my critters.  I have no idea how long I'd have to drive to charge the battery back up but I'm assuming that's longer than I care to do.

 

[Headache]

and we regularly saw temps below 40F at night.

Heat up coffee or tea first thing then jump back under the blankets till it warms up.

It is usually warming up by 10 am, so sleep late.  

Are you really cold or sick?

I wouldn't hold my breath that it wouldn't get below 40.  Believing that and it getting colder could put a serious hurt on me and my pets.  I get what you are saying but for those who are just learning of this, never been camping, etc. that could be dangerous.

I have nothing to heat up tea water with but I will use the candle idea to do that DannyB brought up.

I don't sleep late.  I get up around 5am almost like clockwork.  Have for damn near 50 years.

I could say both.  I have poor circulation at this time and my extremities get cold and once they get cold I have to use heat of some kind to warm back up.  I won't be like this forever but have to deal with it until I get better.

 

[Yogidog]

Hi, I use the drive to town method quite a bit when I am worried about getting "cold to the bone" which is stressful and hard to warm up from.  I have been setting an alarm for 1:00 am to wake up and put a down vest on the dog as the tempatures drops so much throughout the night, but she would sweat it I put it on at ten at night. I like my mornings in town drinking coffee internet ing.  U ask great questions

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I wouldn't hold my breath that it wouldn't get below 40.  Believing that and it getting colder could put a serious hurt on me and my pets.  I get what you are saying but for those who are just learning of this, never been camping, etc. that could be dangerous.

In that situation I would not be adverse to running my engine for heat.  Cost of gas and wear less expensive than you and your pets health.  Just make sure you have a working CO detector!

I have nothing to heat up tea water with but I will use the candle idea to do that DannyB brought up.

Candles release stuff into the air that I don't want to breath.  The EPA site has a good rundown of what different kinds of candles exhaust into the air.  For cheap cooking, look into an alcohol stove.  Easy to make, takes some trial and error to learn to use, you cannot see the flame; so you have to understand the risks before using.  When sleeping in my vehicle a couple of nights while skiing (below zero) I heated my car in the AM with a home made alcohol heater.

. . .  I have poor circulation at this time and my extremities get cold and once they get cold I have to use heat of some kind to warm back up.  I won't be like this forever but have to deal with it until I get better.

Any place that deals with hunters, skiers, etc. will have disposable heat packs.  Works off of chemical reaction.  I keep hand warmers, foot warmers, and kidney warmers in my winter emergency kit.  Work well in mittens, gloves, boots, in small of back.  Will usually last for 8 hours and then toss.  Friend that has Renaud's disease keeps a healthy supply all winter.

 -- Spiff

 

[LeeRevell]

CO, not "CO2".

Why the self-imposed restriction on propane heat? It's the most efficient for the cost and safe.

 

[SternWake]

Peukert steps in on an 18 amp load. Not.simple.math. under an 18 amp load a 100 ah battery only has about 74 ah to deliver. And that is if the battery is healthy and fully charged to start with. The 100 ah rating was achieved under a 5 amp load. Higher loads reduce capacity.

I run a lasko 200 watt heater on my inverter for brief periods under my blankets with knees tented To help me warm the bed up. Some danger involved but it will shut down if it gets too hot.

I also have a 12 v heating pad that is 40 to 65 watts depending on voltage. Still will consume a lot of battery overnight.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Meh.... living without heat is miserable. Scan craigslist for a used Mr.Buddy heater. You might have to dip into a credit card but life is too short to freeze.

 

[Headache]

Hi, I use the drive to town method quite a bit when I am worried about getting "cold to the bone" which is stressful and hard to warm up from.  I have been setting an alarm for 1:00 am to wake up and put a down vest on the dog as the tempatures drops so much throughout the night, but she would sweat it I put it on at ten at night. I like my mornings in town drinking coffee internet ing.  U ask great questions

Looks like we might be doing some townie things at the same time!  I have a winter jacket for my pooch as well as heat packs and lucky me I don't have to set an alarm to get up.  I have towels for the dog to burrow in too and my cat has a winter jacket she lays on as well as a blanket but most likely she'll just get under the covers with me.  She's a pretty big cat so not only do we share the warmth but I have yet to roll over on her!

Spaceman Spiff

In that situation I would not be adverse to running my engine for heat.  Cost of gas and wear less expensive than you and your pets health.  Just make sure you have a working CO detector!

For cheap cooking, look into an alcohol stove.

disposable heat packs

If I have to wait a few months before I have the money saved for a solar set up and batteries I don't want to be spending the money on extra gas if I can avoid it as well as other reasons.  I have a decent running van with 234k miles on it.  However, if we are talking a life and death situation you're damn right I'm going to idle the van(AFTER I fix the exhaust) and hope for the best but that's not the kind of information I'm after for this.

No alcohol, see first line of first post.  I'm trying to use what I have on hand in the best possible way.

I have 2 boxes of those heat packs and they will be on board.  I'm saving them for the dog if I have to use them but won't be buying more.  They aren't cheap!

LeeRevell

CO, not "CO2".

Why the self-imposed restriction on propane heat?  It's the most efficient for the cost and safe.

Thanks on reminding me of the continued typo.  I keep doing that and for some reason it's become ingrained.

As far as propane I thought I explained that in the 2nd paragraph and my stating that this thread isn't for that kind of discussion would be enough.  For the longer reason please see post #31 here:

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-RV-Woodburner-and-Desert?page=4

It is definitely NOT cost effective nor safe in my situation and opinion but we can debate details in another thread if you must.


I'm trying to use common materials one might have on hand.  I have no choice but to do this the poor man's way.  I do realize that none of you can imagine what I may have on hand but if you've done something creatively your describing it may trigger some creative idea in me using something I have here.  Let's network those ideas!  This is just a minor setback, nothing more and luckily I'm a very practical person.

One Awesome Inch

Meh.... living without heat is miserable.  Scan craigslist for a used Mr.Buddy heater. You might have to dip into a credit card but life is too short to freeze.

Who's credit cards are going to pay for something I won't use?   :s

I will repeat the important part of my first post to start this thread that I made sure to state FIRST so it wouldn't be missed:

I titled this thread so that various methods can be discussed.  Mind you this is for non-propane/alcohol/butane discussion.

Just got word I have to be out in November, no discussion.  I'll be coming down with what I have and what I can make with the materials I have on hand now

I'm poor, period.  Short of buying 2x2s to attach cardboard to I will have little money to spend especially on things I will NEVER use.  However I do have a mailbox I can make into a woodstove to cook food so on that thankfully I'm covered.

 

[rvpopeye]

Just keep layering on clothes till you stay warm....you are your own furnace !
Same for the pets , give them something to burrow into (including what you're burrowing into too. )
If you do make a mailbox wood stove , I really would like to see a picture of it.

 

[wagoneer]

I say Amen to that, just has not gotten too cold in the last 3 RTR's a jacket night watch cap and gloves can't handle, coarse gotta have me my uggs.
one thing is bugging me to no end the vast amount of times Brakes is misspelt NoNoNo it's not Breaks please thank you

 

[Headache]

If you do make a mailbox wood stove , I really would like to see a picture of it.

Here's where I got the idea from!

http://www.elkinsdiy.com/stoves/mailbox-stove-2/

 

[LeeRevell]

No reason for snarkiness. Just trying to understand your reasons. You seem to be trying to get "something for nothing", as far as energy and money go. Lack of funds I understand.
You mentioned wood heat, but want to be "safe". That will take some real thought, talented fabrication skills, and some money. It has been done, but will require cutting somewhere on the vehicle, and constant vigilance. Adding an animal to this could get 'interesting'.
Maybe some type of solar heating, using plastic bottles, scrap PVC pipe, water, and a small 12VDC pump and fan?

 

[highdesertranger]

a warning to anyone using a mail box or anything else not meant to be a wood stove as a wood stove. most mail boxes are galvanized. if you were to light a fire in one you are going to burn the galvanizing off. the fumes are harmful and could be deadly, especially in a confined area. this goes for the galvanized flue pipe that is sold in your home improvement stoves too. this also goes for using grates not meant to be bbq grates too. please everybody be very careful with what you burning. highdesertranger

 

[DannyB1954]

If you do make a mailbox wood stove , I really would like to see a picture of it.

Lots of Youtube videos on "ammo can stoves" as well.

 

[anewbiewannabe]

Okay, here's one out-of-the-box, or really inspired by the cardboard boxes of the homeless outside:

On top of creating a smaller room within the van with blankets or cardboard, create a sleeping "room" or "shack" within that space using cardboard and tinfoil---if you could afford the space blankets I'd say use those, but this is the down and dirty version.

Either use the outside wall cardboard as one side down the length of the sleeping area or create an interior wall---basic shape would be like a shack with a shed roof. Line the interior with foil taped shiny side toward the sleeping space and short side away from actual bed with something set up at the bottom to deal with the condensation from breath sliding down. (This is purely untested theory on my part but the shed roof seems it would alleviate the drips on the bed.) Perhaps on the higher wall creating some kind of gutter a bit higher than might get bumped, at least until it's tested. Both ends of the "room" will need airspaces for air exchange and one end will need an egress.

As long as you have warm bedding and in areas where averages aren't usually lower than the 20s/ 30s at night (could possibly work lower, but I'm thinking that's where you're aiming for IIRC) then the little room should be warm enough from body heat kept in to do whatever stretches or whatever get the arthritic bodies moving before being challenged with colder temps.  

Unless you go to bed or the "room" before it's cold it will take a while for it to warm up---not sure how affected the pre-sleep is by cold.  Pets would definitely help warm up the space and it can be designed to include them based on how/where they sleep---whether with you or in own bed.

So, there would be 3 temperature zones in the van---the one in the sleeping room that's inside the second one of the curtained off room, and then the third is the ambient inside environment where there's no heat from warm bodies.  I can't draw anything up because I don't have good internet or recent practice with the program so if anyone wants to play with it....

So, since the woodstove has been mentioned too, though for cooking, somebody know the answer to this: on woodstoves, if they're attached (?!?!) to the vehicle does that prevent them from being subject to the fire bans? If they aren't attached then they'd be banned the same as charcoal grills at least.