12V Wiring Plan + 200W Renogy Kit

[bkrunaway]

So after a lot of scattered research over the last few months, I finally sat down and made myself systematically draw out plans so that I could find the questions and then get the answers. You know you're behind when you don't even have the questions yet  :s

Would be grateful for comments on my plan especially with wiring strategy, sizes, and connections. Questions are in PINK.

So, I have yet to install a 200W Renogy Mono Starter Kit with a 40A MPPT Charge Controller but right now my questions are more about wiring the van electrical from batteries out. 

I will be running:

• a 65 quart Whynter Fridge (picking up tomorrow used for about $150 less than new - yay!) 
• Fantastic Fan (installed)
• LED lights (still deciding on lights)
• Charging iphone (usually 1 or 2, but for 3 weeks there will be 3)
• Charging Laptop (probably 1 if any)

Solar Installation - No Questions Yet
Will install as instructed using included materials

Batteries - still need to pick out
(2) 6V AGM wired in series (2 gauge wire with 3/8 inch ring connectors) to make them 12V. AGM because I don't want to worry about water levels or cut another hole for a vent, unless the hole can be in floor. I could do a hole in the floor. 

Fuse Block - Blue Sea Systems ST Blade ATO/ATC Fuse Blocks
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000THQ0CQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

• 6 gauge wire with 3/8 ring connectors to wire battery to fuse block
• Circuits from ST Blade ATO/ATC Fuse Block will be attached to fuse block with spade connector. 
  • Do spade connectors come in sizes? If so what size for the fuse block screws?

Fuse between battery and fuse block?

• In his article on installing a fuse block, Bob suggested using a fuse between the battery and fuse block. (he suggested: Blue Sea Systems Maxi Fuse Block 30-A  and 80 A Fuse)
• Could this act as a switch to the whole system by removing the fuse? so far I have no way of shutting off the whole system besides pulling out blade fuses to individual circuits, I think. 
• I'm guessing I could also use the 6 gauge wire from the Battery --> Maxi Fuse Block --> Blade Fuse block mentioned above?

Fridge Circuit - draws 4.5A - approx 40ft wiring total - 12 Gauge Wire? - What size blade fuse in fuse block?

• Used Blue Sea Circuit Wizard to calculate wire gauges (with settings shown in picture)
• [img=649x480]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d...-48ba-827d-b2de72939e21_zpsd1jhvfv4.png[/img]
• Will use a spade connector at fuse block
• Will use butt connector to connect wire coming from fuse block to wire coming out of fridge
• Will wires coming out of fridge be marked +/-?

Fan Circuit - draws 3A max - approx 20ft wiring total - 16 gauge wire? 

• Similarly used Blue Sea Circuit Wizard and changed the current and length of wire to be used
• Will use a spade connector at fuse block
• Will use butt connector to connect wire coming from fuse block to wires coming out of fan

LED lights 

• I don't know what lights I'm getting yet, but they pull very little current so can I just go with 16 gauge? The Blue Sea Circuit Wizard advises not to use anything thinner than 16....
• Thinking of 3-4 recessed LEDs, can I get them all on same circuit if they are not already wired to each other? 

Laptop Charging 

• I'd prefer not to have an inverter, and would rather get a 12V charger for laptops when they are around. In one thread I read, sternwake advised against the stock ciggy plugs that come with the 12V laptop chargers, saying they will fail with the amount of current going through them and instead suggested anderson powerpoles. If not that, then to replace the stock ciggy plug on the charger with: this blue sea 12V ciggy plug 
• So, do I go for a powerpole outlet (like this) or is that over kill? Should I stick to just upgrading the ciggy plug as mentioned above?
• What gauge wire should I use for this outlet?

USB Outlet

• something like this 2.1A Blue Sea Dual USB
• 16 gauge ok?

General Questions:

• Should butt connectors also be wrapped in electrical tape?
• How do I know what size blade fuse in fuse block?
• What's the problem with using wire that is thicker than what is needed? Buying fewer sizes of wire would be cheaper. 
• Any wire source suggestions? I know I need copper (not copper plated) and that they should be rated at least 80C. 

Thanks for taking a look! At some point I'll draw up a diagram, but I'm hoping the way I laid it out makes sense as well.

 

[jonyjoe303]

For the fridge I would go with 10 gauge especially if your using 40 feet of wiring. Thats what I use on mine and it was only 10 feet of wiring. The fridge are very sensitive to low voltage, especially when the compressor kicks in.

Same with the fantastic fan, I would use 10 gauge, my endless breeze fantastic fan came with about 5 feet of wiring and its very thick, probably 10 gauge. 

The led light you can go with 16 gauge, you wont notice much difference using thicker gauge. 

For connectors, I use the xt60 for everything. Everything in my van is connected with those plugs. They can handle up to 60 amps, cost less than 10 dollars for 10 sets. Only drawback is you have to solder them. The powerpoles are more expensive and require a special crimper to assemble them. I stop using the cigarette plugs years ago.  I got the xt60 because of the price, once you get your system setup, you will keep adding devices, the price will start adding up pretty quick for some of the namebrand connectors. I always have a box of xt60 connectors ready to go.

heres some different type of connectors

 

[Weight]

The series inter-connection is the important one. I recommend you use 2/0 rather than 2. I think 2 awg is rather small.

 

[highdesertranger]

dang that's a lot of questions in one post. I will try.

1. yes spade terminals come in different sizes but you don't need spades for that fuse block. you need ring terminals and yes they come in different sizes too. you buy them to match the screw. the main power and ground are #10 and the individual circuits are #8.

2. yes you can use the fuse for a main disconnect. the fuse box is rated at 100amps, so fuse and wire accordingly.

3. for 40ft for the refer circuit I would use 8-10gauge. for the fan 12-14. for the leds 16 should work fine.

4. I don't know if your wires on the refer are marked.

5. I like the power poles. 10gauge.

6. 16 should work for the USB but I would go bigger. I like overkill to a point.

7. for butt connectors or any connector I like to use the non-insulated connectors with heat shrink tubing over the top.

8. I like using oversize wire just make sure it fits the connector.

9. you can get wire all over the place. look for the best deal and copper or tinned copper.

I think I covered it all, any questions please ask a couple at a time. it's good you are going with quality components. highdesertranger

 

[rvpopeye]

Everything HDR ^just said!

(those xt60 connectors^^^ JJ303 were interesting , will have to try some out..)

 

[SternWake]

I've been eyeballing those xt60 connectors, but then I would have two standards, The anderson powerpole and the xt60. I've already transferred from the 12v SAE connectors.

I've been eyeballing the xt60 connectors as I usually wind up soldering the anderson powerpole contacts after crimping anyway, whereas the xt60 have to be soldered. The andersons are expensive for what they are. the 15 30 and 45 amp versions will all mate with each other. I've no personal experience with the xt60 connectors, not sure if they are also referred to as Deans connectors, but their price is more attractive than andersons.

Keep in mind that if one cuts off the ciggy plug on their dc to dc laptop car adapter, or 12v compressor fridge, they also eliminate the fuse which protects the thinner wiring on the car adapter/ fridge. So either there needs to be a fuse after the powerpole, or the wire leading to the powerpole connector needs to be fused for the wire on the car adapter.

One can wire the car adapter directly to fuse block, but I have measured about 0.08 amps parasitic draw on mine, when it is not plugged into the laptop. So I recommend installing an inline switch to eliminate the parasitic draw.

The anderson powerpoles in the 15 and 30 amp flavor can use a standard dimple crimper like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Betts-WT111M-Insulated-Terminals/dp/B0018LD2PU

The 45's have these little wings which must be folded over the wire than compressed around it which required more skill. 10 awg will not fit in the 30 amp unless destranded, 10awg has to use the 45. I've fit 8awg into the 45's, but it has to be destranded at the connector, and the insulation shaved to slide inside the plastic portion. Kind of a Pain in the ass, and makes more room for error.

The Anderson special crimper would make the all of them much easier to assemble. I'd likely not solder after crimping if I had their tool which I really should get.

https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Pow...28&sr=1-1&keywords=anderson+powerpole+crimper

Having to redo crimps, like the ring terminals on the fuse block is a Pain in the ass, so it really Behooves one to use quality terminations and tools to make them properly. If one is not so confident, leave a little bit more slack in the copper wiring leading to the fuse block to account for cutting off the failed crimp and installing another.

I've removed some extremely hideous wiring from rv's/ boats, some were factory, some were installed by a previous owner, many were quite dangerous, others just prone to corrosion and voltage drop.

There are some fairly bad quality crimp connectiors sold out there, some can be steel or aluminum when they should all be tinned copper. I prefer removing the plastic or Nylon from the crimp connectors and using heatshrink over them instead. Do not cheap out on fuses, breaker, wiring, fuse holders or crimp connectors. Shopping by price alone will cause regrets and cursing at best at some point, at worst, a fire.

My soldering over A crimp is unneeded overkill. I usually just want to cover the ends of the stranded copper which should not allow any solder to wick up the wire and make it brittle. A good crimp will not require solder.

Mainesail takes things beyond ABYC code:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/terminating_small_wires

Keep in mind he makes his living doing this and spending top $ on the best tools is in his best interest and has his work inspected, and failures can cost him his career and million dollar vessels.
We on a lesser budget not making a living doing it can get away with less. Glean what would be ideal from the above articles, and do the best you can with the tools you acquire, and know if something is just plain inadequate for the task asked of it and which tools are horribly inadequate for the task.

 

[bkrunaway]

Thanks so much for all the input! I got a little caught up with insulating the high top, prepping to put in walls, and moving out of my room so that a subletter could move in. I am now roaming from work site to work site which feels really nice because it's like I'm on the road already. 

I've been letting all of the feedback sink in and doing more research along the way. The power poles for the fridge and DC laptop charger are my ultimate goal, but considering I'll only be full time for a few months and then using the van intermittently, I am going to try to go with the ciggy outlets for both and if I run into trouble upgrade on the road. 

This is my adjusted plan for wires and connectors with all equipment from previous post (minus the power pole outlet). 

Battery Series Connection

• 2/0 AWG
• (2) 3/8” ring connectors

Battery to Fuse Box (for individual circuits)

• 6 AWG
• (2) #10 ring connector - (fuse box side)
• (2) 3/8” ring connectors - (battery side)

Maxi Fuse Block (between battery and fuse block for individual circuits)

• 70A fuse
• (2) 1/4" ring connectors for 6AWG

Fridge - Ciggy Outlet

• 8 AWG
• 1/4 inch spade push on connectors (2)
• #8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]
  

Laptop Charging - Ciggy Outlet 

• 8 AWG
• 1/4 inch spade push on connectors (2) 
• #8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]
  
  

USB Outlet

• 8 AWG
• 1/4 inch spade push on connectors (2) 
• #8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]

Fan

• 12 AWG
• Butt connectors 
• #8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]

LED

• 16 AWG Gauge
• butt connectors 
• #8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]

Questions: (Only two at a time this time!)

• My plan so far is to wire from battery to fuse block which will then go out to individual circuits. What about the "load" connection points on my charge controller? Can I wire my fuse block to this instead or should it come directly from the battery?
• Should I fuse the connection from solar panel to Controller and controller to the battery? So far there are no inline fuses that I have seen in the renogy kit for those connections. 

Thanks again for all the advice 

 

[Trebor English]

The load connection on my controller can only handle 10 amps.  It can be programmed to turn off when the battery voltage gets low.  You could use that for some things that would get your attention like a light and TV like an alarm.  I have #6 wire from my battery fuse to the fuse block not feeding everything from the controller.
 
Between the panel and the controller I have #8 wire and no fuse.  From the controller I have #8 wire to the fuse block with a 30 amp fuse in the fuse block.  That fuse ptotects all the solar stuff from the battery.  The solar can't overload the #8 wires.  

Rather than Anderson Power Poles I use quarter inch spade connectors also called quick disconnects.  I use females with heat shrink for the supply side and uninsulated males for the load side.  I use red marker for the plus side and black marker for the minus side.

 

[bkrunaway]

Update: Just added two in-line maxi fuses to my shopping list for the solar panel to controller and controller to battery connections. The panels will be wired in parallel which Renogy calculates for you as delivering 18A. I rounded up to a 20A fuse for solar --> controller. For controller --> battery I got a 40A fuse because the controller is rated at 40A.

 

[bkrunaway]

Still plugging away at the research. Was having trouble finding connectors for 8 AWG wire and then went back to my notes and your replies and switched all my 8 AWG wire for 10 AWG. Check below for most recent edits. Changes highlighted in blue. 

________________________________________________________

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Battery Series Connection[/font]
[*]1/0 AWG
[*](2) 3/8” ring connectors

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Battery to Fuse Box (for individual circuits)[/font]
[*]6 AWG
[*](2) #10 ring connector - (fuse box side)
[*](2) 3/8” ring connectors - (battery side)


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Maxi Fuse Block[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] (between battery and fuse block for individual circuits)[/font]
[*]70A fuse
[*](2) 1/4" ring connectors for 6AWG


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Fridge - Ciggy Outlet[/font]
[*]10 AWG
[*]1/4 inch spade push on connectors (2)
[*]#8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Laptop Charging - Ciggy Outlet [/font]
[*][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]10 AWG[/font]
[*]1/4 inch spade push on connectors (2) 
[*]#8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]USB Outlet[/font]
[*][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]10 AWG[/font]
[*]1/4 inch spade push on connectors (2) 
[*]#8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]


[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Fan[/font]
[*]12 AWG
[*]Butt connectors 
[*]#8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]LED[/font]
[*]16 AWG Gauge
[*]butt connectors 
[*]#8 ring connector (2) [fuse box side]


In-line fuse from Solar to connector - 20A
In-line fuse from connector to battery - 70A

 

[Sabatical]

I am not familiar with your charge controller but mine has a fuse onboard to protect it. Maybe yours does too. I'm far from an expert but shouldn't the fuses be rated for protecting the gauge of wire you are using and not the components the wires lead to?

https://www.bluesea.com/support/art..._Fuse_Holder_For_Your_DC_Product_Installation

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[Trebor English]

Between the panels and the controller you are using #10 wire.  That can carry 30 amps.  Your panels can't make 30 amps, your panels can't overheat that wire.  There's no need for a fuse there.  A fuse will add resistance causing less charging.  If you want a fuse there anyway with 30 amp wiring use a 30 amp fuse for the least resistance.  

Between the controller and the battery the same logic applies up to the battery.  The battery can supply more than the #10 wire can carry so there needs to be a 30 amp fuse where the #10 solar controller wire connects to the battery. 

The 70 amp battery fuse needs to be at the battery not at thefuse box.  

 

[user 37446]

Maybe you have it already but a 40 amp MPPT is overkill for a 200 watt system. In case you haven't bought it you can step that down to save some $.

 

[Weight]

1/0 cable is an odd size. Sort of like 8 awg, it is getting difficult to find fittings. Although Genuine Dealz seems to have them all in stock.

 

[bkrunaway]

@Trebor English thanks for the input about my fusing setup. I have a lot of my electrical wired in the van and haven't added any fuses aside from the blue sea MAXI fuse on the positive 6 AWG wire leading from battery to the fuse box that will then lead to all the circuits. I am confused by you saying not to fuse the fuse box. Perhaps we are just wording it differently?

Solar --> Controller: I get the logic now of not adding a fuse there, and won't waste the cutting crimping and price of the fuse, I was going off of Renogy's installation info.

Controller --> Battery: Renogy also suggested fusing here and I'm assuming it would be on the positive cable to protect the controller from the battery. Renogy advised picking a fuse the size of what your controller is rated, hence 40A.

Does that clarify or would you change the fusing strategy for the battery//circuit fuse box and controller//battery connections

I'm starting up some research on fusing in general, because I realize I'm missing some key fusing strategies that would make figuring this out a lot easier.

Thanks again!

 

[bkrunaway]

@stern wake, though it's a bit delayed, I've been reading through the posts on this thread again, and wanted to thank you for such a detailed response! Will definitely go back to your post when I upgrade someday.

@This world isn't home I bought the solar kit a few months ago when I wanted to have the option to expand. I now don't think that I will, but I was willing to take the price difference now rather than buying a new controller down the line.

@sabatical thanks for this nudge re: fusing. I realized after your post that I needed to do a bit more research and the article you linked to was very helpful. I'm going back to the drawing board to figure out what size fuses I'll be using. Between Renogy's installation instructions, the article you linked to, and what Trebor English shared, it sounds like there are instances where fusing for the "destination" (appliance, controller, etc) is necessary. A total noob at this but just putting it out there so someone can correct me! 

 

[bkrunaway]

quick question before some more surface tomorrow while I finish up the wiring and swap out the quick disconnects on my outlets for flag disconnects....

I ran 12 AWG to my fan, but it had 16 AWG wires coming out of it. I was able to join the wires with butt connectors rated for 14-16 AWG without any breakage or bird caging of the 12 AWG wire. The connection is then heat shrinked. I'm using a 3A fuse because my fan says max of 4A and I have yet to find a 4A fuse. Any thoughts/concerns on the connection or the fusing?

 

[SternWake]

 Any thoughts/concerns on the connection or the fusing?

Crimped and heatshrunk and a smaller than required fuse.  No worries

Just carry spare fuses.

 

[VanKitten]

Am I confused? I thought that the fuses were to protect the wires. So..if the wire is rated for 10 amp...even though there is a 4 amp device on it...the fuse could be 10 and still be safe.

Am I confused?

 

[Trebor English]

Fuses:
Every wire needs to be protected from a higher current than it can carry so it doesn't overheat and catch fire.  It needs to be protected at every point where power is applied.

Presume that every wire can come loose at any connection and the insulation can chafe and wear through at any point.

For example, consider the common battery isolator switch.  One end ties to the house battery.  A battery can provide huge current.  There needs to be a fuse at the battery.  At the other end there is the starter battery.  Connecting there requires a fuse.  If you connect to the alternator instead of the battery you can take advantage of the fuse that is already installed by the manufacturer to protect the alternator wire.  Connecting at the battery with a fuse means there are two fuses between alternator and the house battery, more resistance, less charging.

The fuse or fusible link the manufacturer installed between the battery and the alternator is an unknown size.  If the wire falls off at the isolator switch because the nut gets loose then you have a problem.  The wire needs to be fat enough to blow the fuse AND carry all the current the alternator can generate.  Aside from that, the wire needs to be fat enough to have a voltage drop that is low enough to allow unimpeded charging of the house battery.  There is no wire big enough to meet the second requirement.  Pick your price point .  If you will depend on this charging source make the wire as short as possible and as many zeroes as you can afford.  The fuse size must be lower than the fat wire can handle.  You want it as high as possible to have less resistance.  There may be very high surge currents.  The cranking amps rating of the battery is way less than the max amps the battery can deliver into a short.  

If your use of this charge source will be rare and never counted on to get the house battery above 80% because you have other plans, use #6 and don't expect much.  If you use #6 then use about an 80 amp fuse at both ends.  The fusible link the manufacturer installed is more than that.  You need a fuse at the engine end, at the alternator.  Your actual charging will not be near 80 amps.  You want big fuses for low resistance.

The isolator switch, the manual switch or the continuous duty solenoid, doesn't generate electricity.  Both ends of the cable need to be protected.  The middle of the cable where the switch is needs no fuse.

There is a wire from the house battery to the fuse box.  That wire needs to be protected from the house battery.  There should be a fuse at the battery.  None of the loads connected to the fuse box can apply enough (any) power to overheat that wire.  A fuse at the fuse block is extra resistance with no point.

My system has a 100 watt, 5 amp, panel and a PWM controller.  There is a #6 wire between the battery and the fuse box with an 80 amp fuse at the battery.  I have a 30 amp fuse in the fuse box to protect the three foot long #10 wire to the solar controller.  There is no fuse at the controller.  It can only produce 5 amps.  It cannot overheat the #10, 30 amp, wire.  The fuse in the fuse box is the maximum that #10 wire can withstand, 30 amp, to get the lowest resistance.  

My solar controller is good for 20 amps.  That just doesn't matter.  The wire from the controller to the battery and consequently the fuses are big enough so that the solar can't overheat any wires.  The wire, and the fuse, are big enough to keep voltage drop low.  Low voltage drop is necessary for the system to be effective.

My solar controller does its PWM magic with ground side switching.  The swiched loads are controlled with ground side switching.  The result is that the battery plus terminal, the panel plus terminal, and the load plus terminal are tied together inside the controller with no fuse between them.  That means that my 30 amp fuse protects all the solar system from the battery.  If the wire to the panel zip tied to the aluminum frame chafes, that #10 panel wire will get the full 30 amps from the battery.  If your controller is wired with the grounds tied together and switching is done on the high side, just presume that a panel short could cause a transistor switch to short so plan fuses accordingly.  Also, even if your controller doesn't do that, it could fail and get replaced with one like mine.  Who's going to remember your fuse choice?

I have an inverter.  Inverters are power hogs.  It is located inches from the battery.  I have a fuse holder at the battery just for the inverter.  Inverter current goes through wires not used for anything else.


I have a bunch of #16 wires for most stuff.  Wire sizes and fuse ratings are on wikipedia.  Google "awg table" to find it.  I use:
 #6 80 amp
 #8 40 amp
#10 30 amp
#12 20 amp
#14 15 amp
#16 10 amp
My maxxfan is wired with #16 and a 10 amp fuse.  The fuse is in the fuse box at the only point where that wire gets energized.  The fan uses 3 amps.  If the fan electronic speed control shorts internally or if the wire chafes or falls off at the fan the 10 amp will blow.  The wire has the capacity to blow the fuse. 

Where I have a fuse "at the battery" I use one of those fuse holders that has a foot of wire and a rubber socket for the fuse.  They come with a rubber cap to cover the fuse.  I make the wire from the battery bolt to the fuse short enough so that if the fuse fails to blow and melts the fuse holder or burns it away the loose end of the wire can't reach a conductive surface that could be grounded.  They make rigid fuse holders that only extend the conductor from the battery less than a half inch from the battery post.  This little piece of conductor / wire is unfused.  

Breakers:
My opinion is no, no, breakers.  They contain moving parts and therefore can fail.  When a breaker fails that means it fails to trip when an overcurrent condition exists.  Fuses are, compared to breakers, very simple.  Also, breakers have more resistance, more voltage drop, more price, more wallet drop.  If you have an overloaded circuit do not use a breaker to make it easier to restore after an outage  Fix the overload condition.  Breakers are not switches and have limited ability to switch.  If you need a switch, use a switch. 

The only case where I think breakers are appropriate is where you can't trust the user not to put in a bigger fuse after an overload.  Even if there are no routine overloads and fuse blowings, transients happen.