12v inverters
- Thread starter Wildwood
- Start date
Help Support Van Living Forum:
If you are always plugged into mains power, 120 VAC, no problem. If you are going to use storage batteries, it is best to use 12 VDC on devices that operate on 12 VDC. Some items must have 120VAC such as my microwave and toaster. Then a inverter changes the 12VDC from storage battery to 120VAC. Heating and cooking I use gas stove and heater. Lights, water pumps, phone chargers are directly from the battery.
Trebor English
Well-known member
Wildwood said:
Each conversion will have loss of 10% to 20%. If you take energy at 12 volts, change it to 120 then change it to 12 you will waste 20% to 40%. Wasting 40% means you need nearly twice as much solar panel and twice as much battery.
Canine
Well-known member
I say stick with a 12 volt system instead of the 24,36, or 48 volt system you have. Converters waste electricity, are noisy, are another thing to purchase, and another thing to break down.
You will need an inverter for some devices like a hot water heater or to run corded tools. Inverters will draw energy just sitting there left on; if you shut off the inverter, it won't use any electricity. Since our dwellings are so small, we have very short runs of wire, so putting too many amps through the wires is a much smaller concern. Just spend a little more money on larger, high quality wire and you will get all of the advantages of a converter minus all the negatives of a converter.
The advantage of 110 is you can get any device of high quality just about anywhere. High quality 110 volt devices are ubiquitous. On the 12 volt side there are some nice fridges that are built better than 110 volt fridges. The downside while there is a decent selection of 12 volt devices, it pales in comparison to 110 volt and the quality of 12 volt devices is, generally speaking, less that the 110 volt market.
You will need an inverter for some devices like a hot water heater or to run corded tools. Inverters will draw energy just sitting there left on; if you shut off the inverter, it won't use any electricity. Since our dwellings are so small, we have very short runs of wire, so putting too many amps through the wires is a much smaller concern. Just spend a little more money on larger, high quality wire and you will get all of the advantages of a converter minus all the negatives of a converter.
The advantage of 110 is you can get any device of high quality just about anywhere. High quality 110 volt devices are ubiquitous. On the 12 volt side there are some nice fridges that are built better than 110 volt fridges. The downside while there is a decent selection of 12 volt devices, it pales in comparison to 110 volt and the quality of 12 volt devices is, generally speaking, less that the 110 volt market.
highdesertranger
R.I.P HDR
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2012
- Messages
- 22,892
- Reaction score
- 89
Wildwood what are you planning on running off the inverter? maybe you don't even need one. highdesertranger
I was thinking about just using dc adapters for my 12v appliances to keep the wiring simple. This is all new to me. Have not seen this specific question asked or answered on any of the YouTube videos I have watched. Thanks for all the input!
idrankwhat
Member
One thing to consider, might be that 120V appliances are much cheaper than the same in 12V. Depends on cost/vs how much power you have vs the inefficiency of the inverter.
My cargo trailer wiring is as simple as i could possibly could build it, 12 volt with solar.
I have a 120v line coming in to the trailer, but most of the time there's no 120v power nearby.
I have an inverter generator that runs on either gasoline or propane. I use it when I have too.
I do use a little 300-watt pure sine wave inverter to power my LED TV and DVD player.
I have a 120v line coming in to the trailer, but most of the time there's no 120v power nearby.
I have an inverter generator that runs on either gasoline or propane. I use it when I have too.
I do use a little 300-watt pure sine wave inverter to power my LED TV and DVD player.
My factory RV trailer is wired everything 12V as possible. Then numerous strategic 110 outlets throughout the travel trailer (TT).
Can boondock (aka dry camp) upon demand, given we have a generator we can recharge the house 12v battery daily during noise hours.
One thing that gets folks is the refrigerator need. But know a YouTube guy “little house on the road” who runs his 110v refrigerator off a 12v battery and a Walmart high power inverter (not pure sign wave).
He knows he will have early 110v refrigerator failure at five years, given the motor will run hot. Inverters that are not pure sign wave will do that. But he does not care. It’s ten times the cost for a 12v DC refrigerator, as for a 110v AC refrigerator.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can boondock (aka dry camp) upon demand, given we have a generator we can recharge the house 12v battery daily during noise hours.
One thing that gets folks is the refrigerator need. But know a YouTube guy “little house on the road” who runs his 110v refrigerator off a 12v battery and a Walmart high power inverter (not pure sign wave).
He knows he will have early 110v refrigerator failure at five years, given the motor will run hot. Inverters that are not pure sign wave will do that. But he does not care. It’s ten times the cost for a 12v DC refrigerator, as for a 110v AC refrigerator.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
blars said:
Right. And efficiency needs to be ten times better. Given the price difference. Think the 110vac to 12vdc is only twice as inefficient.
So will he burn twice the gasoline in his generator to charge it up and run? Yes. Assuming the generator was used only for that. But the generator is running every morning anyway.
$100 refrigerator versus $1000 refrigerator is a lot of math for efficiency to play with.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Canine
Well-known member
The cost difference isn't just efficiency. It's scale of economy as well. Not as many 12 volt fridges, so they have to charge more in order to cover research and development, advertising, and all costs of doing business. Also, a 12 volt fridge made for mobile use is made to handle the bumps of the road and to be able to run on a not level surface- up to 30 degrees! You can't do that with a $100, 110 volt residential fridge. How often will that cheap fridge need to be replaced? Hard to say for sure, but it will certainly need to be replaced more often with a possibility of losing all the food in the residential fridge during each failure.
The cost of a running generator will increase the overall cost. Oil changes, filters, the inconvenience of filling up the generator more often, and finding an appropriate place to store the stinky, messy generator and gas can all add up. I plugged in my 12 volt fridge, set the temp, and that is all I have done in the last couple of years. Nice and quiet too with 100% solar. All it takes for some lights and a fridge is a 100 watt panel, a controller, and some wire. $200 will buy a nice set up that will work reliably for possibly decades. A generator? I've seen them fail after several months of frequent use, which is a reasonable life span.
The cost of a running generator will increase the overall cost. Oil changes, filters, the inconvenience of filling up the generator more often, and finding an appropriate place to store the stinky, messy generator and gas can all add up. I plugged in my 12 volt fridge, set the temp, and that is all I have done in the last couple of years. Nice and quiet too with 100% solar. All it takes for some lights and a fridge is a 100 watt panel, a controller, and some wire. $200 will buy a nice set up that will work reliably for possibly decades. A generator? I've seen them fail after several months of frequent use, which is a reasonable life span.
Canine
Well-known member
Wildwood, there are threads about it on this forum.
highdesertranger
R.I.P HDR
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2012
- Messages
- 22,892
- Reaction score
- 89
yes there are threads about here. I didn't see any of the benefits people claim with a 110v refer. in fact my experiment was a total failure and a waste of time and money. of course YMMV. highdesertranger
Canine
Well-known member
Wildwood, At the risk of repeating myself, I want to say something just to be clear: Using a residential fridge is foolish. I would hate to see you do your best to try and get started only to fail because of spending more money in the long term even short term. I call it stepping over dollars and picking up nickels. Little House on the Road doesn't know what he's doing well enough to provide quality information. Watch his videos and you will see the trouble he is having. If you want to go that route, that is fine. Little House is making it-he is living the life. Albeit with a bit more difficulty than necessary.
He never shows a video of his large fridge in his slide in camper. It is a picture of a fridge and that is it. Maybe he does have some video of it, but he didn't include it in the fridge video. I'm having a hard time believing he has a fridge, two adults, a generator, all of his wife's belongings, and all of his belongings in that camper. Is it possible? Yes, but am having doubts. Why not show a video of his camper? And the story of an old lady getting the tar beat out of her for asking a group of people to turn down their music is suspect, too. Is it possible? Yes, but I doubt it. His video on safety is sensationalized. He is using a cheap, noisy generator to charge his batteries. He is NOT charging his batteries properly. His batteries will die a very early death. I'm not saying a generator can't charge a battery properly, just that he's not doing it with longevity in mind.
Check out his video about solar panels, too. You can make your own opinion. After 4 videos, I quit watching.
He never shows a video of his large fridge in his slide in camper. It is a picture of a fridge and that is it. Maybe he does have some video of it, but he didn't include it in the fridge video. I'm having a hard time believing he has a fridge, two adults, a generator, all of his wife's belongings, and all of his belongings in that camper. Is it possible? Yes, but am having doubts. Why not show a video of his camper? And the story of an old lady getting the tar beat out of her for asking a group of people to turn down their music is suspect, too. Is it possible? Yes, but I doubt it. His video on safety is sensationalized. He is using a cheap, noisy generator to charge his batteries. He is NOT charging his batteries properly. His batteries will die a very early death. I'm not saying a generator can't charge a battery properly, just that he's not doing it with longevity in mind.
Check out his video about solar panels, too. You can make your own opinion. After 4 videos, I quit watching.
Similar threads
