100% STEALTH

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Here is the reverse side of the panel: Yeah I know it looks sloppy, but it's on the reverse side. On a side note, these panels fit like a glove and from the outside, well, let's just say "good luck trying to see in". The Gorilla tape also goes past the edge of window, to prevent light from seeping out.
 

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For real nite-time low-light that is borderline "tactical", I exclusively use RED Light Emitting Diodes . I can see perfect, and gives me a calming effect in an otherwise nervous setting. P.S. I've never been rousted. 
 

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VERY nice!
Speaking of white trash.....................................................
I took a piece of cardboard the size of my windows, and duct taped thick, black, plastic garbage bags over that. Behind that is my Reflextix insulation.The windows look nice and dark.
 
Finally, I set out on a venture to place a removable barrier between the cab and the living space (the rear of the van). I had some old curtains left over that my ex-wife left behind when she ran off with another man, and I "repurposed" them and they found a new home... I shoved a curtain rod through them, double wrapped (technically quadruple-wrapped since the curtains overlay one another) and voila, no light seepage. 
I hot-melt glued velcro on the bottom edge of the POLYESTER curtains, and simply stuck the hook-side of the velcro onto the headliner. This is why I went with a mini-van, since all of them have a cloth-like headliner. Once again, they nave NEVER fallen down and thus, are extremely reliable. 


Before turning in at the site I choose to sleep for the nite, I look around for a few minutes, making sure that the passenger seat is brought fully forward, and tilted to the dash as close as it'll get, I then grab the grab bar near the ceiling of the van with my left hand, pull myself upward, and in a sweeping motion, lift the right leg over the console, to get to the rear (making sure the curtains are slightly spread apart, in the center between the left and right seat). 
 

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Next, I ensure that my curtains are fully drawn in the center, and I also make sure that they are at the furthermost edge of the interior of the Transit Connect Wagon. As shown below, I nabbed (at a garage sale) two (2) THREADED curtain dowels. Also, there is a decorative bolt that threads into the dowels. I drilled into the trim of the 2014 Transit Connect Wagon, and super glued the dowel in for good measure. It has never gotten loose (and that's in spite of my 1200-watt competition subwoofer blasting in the rear). Anyhow, the trim of this Transit Connect Wagon (like previous generations, I think) has an upside-down horseshoe-like trim behind the seats, which surrounds the edge; perfect for adhering a curtain rod to. 
And yes, bubba, I drilled into the curtain rod to accommodate the decorative dowel bolt.
 Oh, don't forget to take the bottom edge of the curtain (that has the long strip of velcro) and stick it onto the headliner ceiling, while overlapping the entire curtain unit altogether. These curtains are supposed to be 72-inches in length, and 54-inches in width!  
Once again, the red l.e.d.'s light cannot be seen through the curtains!
Easy-peasy; no muss, no fuss!
 

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Inattentional blindness. Have you seen the video of the people in basketball uniforms that are passing two different colored balls and you are supposed to count how many times the ball is passed? During the video, a person in a gorilla suit BLATANTLY walks through the proceedings, yet a lot of people don't notice it. Why? Because they aren't paying attention to the gorilla and the mind filters it out. Same with vandwelling. You can "hide" in plain sight, most won't notice, and that has value.

Motorcyclists know exactly what inattentional blindness is all about. I've experienced it several times driving a large city bus. A 10 foot tall, 8 foot wide, 35 foot long bus and it wasn't unusual that people didn't see it! Why? The mind filters out anything that isn't a threat, of which only cars and small trucks are perceived to be the threat.

Being stealthy does help with the majority of people. Cops and such, you can't fool them, so all you can rely on is being a courteous, positive member of society. That might not sound like much, but it goes a looooong way.

Vandwellers are more easily noticed by other vandwellers. Like when you buy a new vehicle, all of a sudden there are a ton of people that suddenly purchased the same vehicle you did! Clearly, that is not the case; it is just an example of being able to notice.
 
ZoNiE said:
You are a Woman.

If you were a Man, The story may very well be different...

Other than the odd female teacher sleeping with a 15 year old boy, when do you hear about female pedophiles?

True! 

http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co...._old_boy_as_he_walked_to_school_in_Quedgeley/

I personally would never park next to an elementary school.  I would probably even stay away from middle and high schools, like not even within the vicinity.   You can't blame anyone either because pedophiles are actually a real threat.
 
white trash said:
For real nite-time low-light that is borderline "tactical", I exclusively use RED Light Emitting Diodes . I can see perfect, and gives me a calming effect in an otherwise nervous setting. P.S. I've never been rousted. 

Thanks for the pictures!  I love the lighting and those curtains definitely look very blacked out.  You could probably do something that looks a little more professional with a sewing machine and stuff, but I love how you did it too.  The red lighting adds that extra bit of stealthiness too.
 
Canine said:
Inattentional blindness. Have you seen the video of the people in basketball uniforms that are passing two different colored balls and you are supposed to count how many times the ball is passed? During the video, a person in a gorilla suit BLATANTLY walks through the proceedings, yet a lot of people don't notice it. Why? Because they aren't paying attention to the gorilla and the mind filters it out. Same with vandwelling. You can "hide" in plain sight, most won't notice, and that has value.

Motorcyclists know exactly what inattentional blindness is all about. I've experienced it several times driving a large city bus. A 10 foot tall, 8 foot wide, 35 foot long bus and it wasn't unusual that people didn't see it! Why? The mind filters out anything that isn't a threat, of which only cars and small trucks are perceived to be the threat.

Being stealthy does help with the majority of people. Cops and such, you can't fool them, so all you can rely on is being a courteous, positive member of society. That might not sound like much, but it goes a looooong way.

Vandwellers are more easily noticed by other vandwellers. Like when you buy a new vehicle, all of a sudden there are a ton of people that suddenly purchased the same vehicle you did! Clearly, that is not the case; it is just an example of being able to notice.

I so agree that hiding in plain sight is the way to achieve 100% stealth.  This thread has convinced me so much that I have decided to go to the next level in my design, which basically is to remove the solar panels and rely solely on a dual alternator setup.  With the 600w solar panel system I had planned with 4.5 sun hours a day, gives me a very rough 200 ah a day from solar panels.  Basically, without the panels, I can recoup that energy with less than an hour of driving, so based on my analysis, that is worth the stealth I will gain by not having panels, even if they are flexible panels.  This way I will achieve true 100% stealth -- meaning looking completely stock from the exterior.  I will be posting a new thread sometime with more detailed calculations for those that are interested -- and that way I can get someone to verify my work too.

Thanks all for this amazing responses to this thread!
 
danman81 said:
I so agree that hiding in plain sight is the way to achieve 100% stealth.  This thread has convinced me so much that I have decided to go to the next level in my design, which basically is to remove the solar panels and rely solely on a dual alternator setup.  With the 600w solar panel system I had planned with 4.5 sun hours a day, gives me a very rough 200 ah a day from solar panels.  Basically, without the panels, I can recoup that energy with less than an hour of driving, so based on my analysis, that is worth the stealth I will gain by not having panels, even if they are flexible panels.  This way I will achieve true 100% stealth -- meaning looking completely stock from the exterior.  I will be posting a new thread sometime with more detailed calculations for those that are interested -- and that way I can get someone to verify my work too.

Thanks all for this amazing responses to this thread!

"Hiding in plain sight" means something different to me. To me, it means behavior. If you act like you're trying to hide then it's conspicuous. If you act like you're not trying to hide then you're hiding in plain sight. For example, parking behind a business looks like you're trying to hide. Instead park in plain sight with everyone else.

Talking about making your vehicle look 100% stock, to me that isn't about hiding in plain sight, just regular hiding.

I know this thread is about stealth and I'm somewhat advocating the opposite. But I can't imagine giving up solar for such a reason. For comparison, I've been in San Diego a week now and have not been bothered once. Because I hide in plain sight. And my rig looks like this:

IMG_20160218_082405 copy.jpg

Just a thought. Also, look up some of SternWake's posts on alternator recharging. Lots of good info about what it really takes to do it.
 

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TMG51 said:
"Hiding in plain sight" means something different to me. To me, it means behavior. If you act like you're trying to hide then it's conspicuous. If you act like you're not trying to hide then you're hiding in plain sight. For example, parking behind a business looks like you're trying to hide. Instead park in plain sight with everyone else.

Talking about making your vehicle look 100% stock, to me that isn't about hiding in plain sight, just regular hiding.

I know this thread is about stealth and I'm somewhat advocating the opposite. But I can't imagine giving up solar for such a reason. For comparison, I've been in San Diego a week now and have not been bothered once. Because I hide in plain sight. And my rig looks like this:



Just a thought. Also, look up some of SternWake's posts on alternator recharging. Lots of good info about what it really takes to do it.

My original thought in starting this thread is tat 100% stealth is not possible.  What is possible is to minimise the threat that people perceive when they see your dwelling.  If done right, it is just another car.  If done wrong, it screams out "STRANGER DANGER!" 

I have driven through the dwellers at the Flagstaff WM, and saw a couple rigs that gave me the creeps.  Multiple pit bulls tied to the door handles, lose trash and dog doo, Duct tape on a lot of things~~~ That is bad for everyone.  Suddenly everyone pulled out.   :dodgy:

I have also seen that same parking lot where people were parked neatly, and the WM manager cruised through on his way in smiling. I saw him in the store while I was buying supplies and thanked him for providing a safe place to rest overnight. 

As to dumping solar for stealth.  I agree with the comment about reading Sternwakes posts on that subject.  A solar panel will top up a battery, while a alternator will not hit the top % in the hour or so proposed. Solar can be camouflaged.
 
danman81 said:
...without the panels, I can recoup that energy with less than an hour of driving...

Nope. :(   It takes a few hours to top off the batteries. When the batteries are low, yes they will suck up just about anything you can throw at them, but when it comes to topping off the batteries, that takes time. You could have 3000 watts available, but that won't speed up the charging process during the last charging stage. That is an important stage that is even more important for AGM's and other types. If the batteries don't get that last bit, the batteries won't last as long.

The alternator is a great way to go, though. You can pump out some serious amperage to get a big head start on the charge then let the solar push in the last bit.

Nothing wrong with not charging the battery bank to its fullest. Batteries are a wear and tear item and letting them wear out faster isn't wrong if your personal preference balances that with no solar and more stealth.
 
danman81 said:
I personally would never park next to an elementary school... You can't blame anyone either because pedophiles are actually a real threat.

I'm bothered greatly by this statement and am going start another thread about the bigotry toward men in that regard. This will be a strong step towards my never ending pursuit to alienate anyone who has ever met me.   :)   This is an emotional subject for many, so, please, keep that in mind if responding.

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Men-are-Assumed-to-be-Creepers
 
I learned early on that trying to hide had exactly the opposite effect from what I wanted to achieve. I learned that respect is earned, and you will never gain it by hiding.
 
Hahaha..  I swear the people on this forum give the funniest responses!! -- love this place!

First off, @TMG51, man you've got a beautiful van.  What beach is that?  Pooping in the woods... i gotta try that sometime sounds like so much fun.   Do you use a shovel to bury your poop?  Your van is a great example of what I'm about to say about stealth.  "Hiding in plain sight" or "100% stealth" can mean very different things depending on different criteria IMO, including exactly what you (and others like @GotSmart) have done with your beautiful vans, being a "soccer mom" driving a mini van, and more on the 'hiding' side (i.e., unmarked cargo van parking overnight somewhere strategic like a repair shop or autozone, next to other commercial vehicles in an urban area), and probably others.  To me, all of these people have achieved 100% stealth, just by different means.  Different types of people in different types of areas will be able to achieve 100% stealth and maximize security/safety through different routes, and would probably need to pick a different route based on who/where they are.  In regard to the comment from @Canine about the "war on men", I agree with you - I am also a man and van dwelling for me, actually, is just an outcome of deciding that I would not like to get married so that no woman gets to tell me what to do, where to go, when to come home, how to spend my money, etc, etc...  So, I am in the same boat as you, as I'm sure are many other men on this amazing forum, and didn't mean to offend you.  My comment about that men shouldn't hang around elementary schools in a white ford transit is based purely on the state this world is in (pedophilia is a real and present threat) and I still would not advise for any man to do this.  Bigoted towards men the world may be, and it is, but men still have to live in the world we are in whatever your opinion may be.  In response, I would say that the good thing about us men is that we are survivors.  When men are trampled upon in today's society, some men will just submit in the end, yes, but the other men will always find a way to tinker, engineer, find a solution, make it work, put in the elbow grease/hard work/blood/sweat/tears to find a way out, "no matter what".  No amount of rain, snow, ice, sun will stop a man (literally).  It may seem a little off topic and it does belong in it's own, but this is what brings me back to achieving 100% stealth, which I am absolutely determined to achieve for my own security and safety as a man working in an urban area, and at all costs.  

Based on everyone's responses and the very meaningful discussion we have had on this thread, I have come to the following conclusion regarding 100% stealth, which I have summarized for everyone into the following 3 points, which are ordered in terms of priority with 1 being the highest:

1.  Location, location, location.  Probably the biggest topic in terms of things to talk about, just like a regular house if you think about it.  This could include any location include urban vs rural, paid/free parking spaces, commercial vs residential vs apartments/condos vs retail vs industrial vs schools vs universities vs parks vs beaches vs anywhere, different types of commercial places such as walmart vs bodyshops vs autozone vs used car dealerships vs anything.  This also includes street parking within the vicinity of any of these types of places.  To me, anything is fair game to talk about as long as you're not breaking the law (check your jurisdiction for van dwelling) and there's no posted sign to not park (e.g., fire hydrants).  Location could mean the middle of a huge swath of BLM land in the middle of nowhere for miles and miles in the middle of the woods off a beaten path where no one will ever see you to the middle of mid-town Manhattan.  Even different locations that are the same type of location, for example one walmart vs. another walmart.  Every location is going to be different in terms of stealth and what type of van will be required to acheive 100% stealth.   Someone in a small town where "everyone knows everyone" do benefit by staying in a traditional beautiful camper van like the one @TMG51 or @GotSmart has in order to not look suspicious as they have pointed out.  However, in an urban area, I would say a traditional camper van is not the best choice in terms of stealth, security, and safety.  For example, the city is filled with a LOT of weird people, you just simply don't know what you will get.  You could get a homeless crackhead seeing you sleep in your van and then try to mess with you physically like mug you, or maybe just as worse, just sit there starring at you sleeping, like crackheads do -- that would really creep me out.  Or you will run into that rookie police officer that knows he can't arrest you because you're not doing anything illegal, but he will try and mess with you with anything he can find.  Almost all police officers i like and respect the service they perform so dutifully for our communities, but what I am saying is that it only takes one person to compromise your safety.  What if an undercover cop starts knocking on your door and dosn't show his badge to you right away?  You could mistake him for a robber in the heat of the moment or in the middle of the night and come out of the van holding a weapon like a knife and then get shot in return and then you die.  Now, I would not personally answer to anyone knocking on my van, but the point here is that the city is a place that is full of danger, and from all sides and angles.  In many ways, cities are sadly very broken places that require you to find a way make things work, and stealth camping is one of those ways whether you are a "soccer mom" in a mini van or a "contractor" in a cargo van.  Some people like to mess with people living in their vans, and not just crackheads (just some crackheads), but all kinds of people.  This is why I think that the less people that know you live in your van, the better, from a security and safety standpoint.  Even if your employer found out, you could get in trouble (i.e., for not "living with the joneses").  

2.  Who you are.  This could mean male vs. female as we have pointed out, but also your appearance.  This includes the way you dress, how clean/smelly you are, the way you act outside, the way you talk to strangers, if you follow little children around elementary schools, you get the point.  I won't get into this too much because this is more about common sense and this applies universally to all types of vans and locations.  Don't be stupid.

3.  The type of van you drive.  In the end, this is probably the least of these 3 things, but it does have at least some impact and it is the only one of these 3 areas that you can have total control over.  Technology is always updating itself so the best way to do this 15 years ago may not be the best way to do this now, which may not be the best way to do this 15 years from now, and it probably won't be.  I am updating my own build continually based on this thread discussion, but i am going to leave that out of the discussion for now until I solidify the electrical system i am planning so you guys can see exactly what i'm talking about in terms of not needing solar panels instead of just disagreeing with me because that's not the way you do it.  Personally, I think solar has some way to go before it really becomes a more mainstream technology in terms of efficiency.  Give me a 12v solar panel that will output about 50 amps and I will find a way to use it, and I will use at least a few or couple of them.  Solar panels right now are at most 23% efficient (like at the top of the curve), which to me is not enough - 10 amps if you're lucky is not enough.  Battery technology is another thing to talk about, but an LFP bank has many advantages over a lead-acid bank that allow you to use them in new ways - but that's a discussion for a new thread i promise to start!
 
Thanks for the van compliments, I'm quite fond of 'er. That picture was taken a couple weeks ago at Lake Havasu.
 
GotSmart said:
Danman, all it takes is one person seeing you go in, and not leaving, or the neighborhood busybody to ruin your "stealth"

As for solar efficiency, Where do you get your numbers???


http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/02/which-solar-panels-most-efficient/

NASA has 46% efficient panels. (EXPENSIVE) 

I am looking forward to that thread.

@GotSmart -- Thanks for the link!  very cool!  Here are the panels I am referencing:

http://www.amazon.com/KINGSOLAR-trade-Generation-Motorhome-Campervan/dp/B00R8SMVC2

They are a chinese copy cat version Solbian's SP series flexible panels.  More info on them here:

http://www.bruceschwab.com/uploads/2016a-solbian-handout.pdf

These are the panels with the highest efficiency currently on the mass market (i.e., amazon, ebay, etc..).  In the link you posted, those are for concentrator solar cells, which won't fit on your roof or be stealth, with the exception of the sharp (triple-junction, non-concentrator solar cell), but I cannot find a link to buy those.  My point was that a single dedicated alternator can produce about 170 amps at engine idle in an hour, whereas it takes a full day to produce 180 amps from 5 x 120watt panels at 8ah each and 4.5 sun hours.   I am planning on a dual alternator setup, which I have calculated to generate 314 amps at idle without any type of idle increase setting (and I would like to increase my idle speed), so 600watt worth of solar panels may seem like a lot, but until efficiency hits about 80% for panels, it's just not really necessary with an alternator setup like I have planned, unless you don't plan on driving.  I do promise to post all my calculations and my plans for everyone!

As for all it taking is one person to see you enter your van without driving off to ruin your stealth, I agree and don't think you should do this.  For the type of stealth I am talking about, you would park somewhere and go directly to the back to sleep through the partition without exiting the van.  There's another thread on this forum about this discussion if you search for it, but basically, parking somewhere and not getting out looks less suspicious than getting in your van and not leaving, or at least that's what people seemed to agree on in that thread.
 
That was cool, but Those flex panels only have a 1 year guarantee? Daring of them to sell flex panels when others are recalling them to prevent liability due to misuse. 

where do you find batteries that can absorb 100% of the available power as it is produced?  You can only allow a battery to charge on its own terms. (OR BOOM!)

Read what Sternwake has posted on this subject. 

I have 200 W of panels, and 448 AH of battery.  This takes care of what I use, without resorting to the 130 Amp generator. (Flip a switch!)
 

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