Off Grid 24/7 said:
They know, they ALWAYS know. It's just a matter of whether or not they choose to do anything about it. The more suspicious your vehicle is, or the more you try to hide, the more likely that they will mess with you.
If you are trying to hide, it immediately raises the question of "Why are they trying to hide?", or "What are they hiding?". A more obvious camper gives the impression that they have nothing to hide, so they might not be worth the bother.
While cargo vans may seemingly be common everywhere, I guarantee you that every cop, every security guard, and every neighbor knows exactly which cargo vans belong where at night.
Thanks Off Grid! Obviously, this thread has generated a lot of interest, way more than I was expecting! Reading and thinking through everyone's comments, I think your comment summarizes the main disagreement that we are having with each other in regards to stealth, so I'm just going to summarize again for everyone reading this thread for the first time because it's so long! I may have my own opinion on this, but I do accept the fact that these are our opinions and in the end people have to make their own decision based on what they know. So, i'm very thankful for your viewpoint. I hope this thread facilitates this discussion further, but one thing for sure is that this is an important topic!
So, to summarize, it seems like people are either in 1 of 2 camps:
1. Stealth is unnecessary/overestimated because when you are in stealth mode and someone sees you being "stealthy", that is seen as "mysterious", and like Off Grid says, "What are they hiding?". This is a valid point. Imagine if you are parked next to a elementary school in a white unmarked van without windows -- people will just not compromise on the safety of their children and rightly so, and there are pedophiles that kidnap children out there. The point here is that there are ways to unmask the "stealth", which makes you more of a target than someone who is more obviously living in their van.
2. While the stealth van community appreciates and respects the first generation of van dwellers (i.e., in the counter-culture movement of the 60's and 70's), and we wouldn't even have van dwelling if it weren't for these pioneers, it is now 2016 and times have changed. Security and privacy have become a huge issue in our modern society. Data breaches in the world of computers is commonplace, technology has facilitated the transfer and leakage of personally identifiable information (PII) by anyone to the whole world and privacy and anonymity has become something that is considered highly valued, not just by bad guys, but good guys. For example, many parents no longer allow their children to be photographed because they know these photos are uploaded to social media for access to anyone to see around the world, and who knows what could happen if they get into the wrong hands. Scammers and thieves are abound. I wouldn't even want my own photo to be taken by someone I don't know on the street without my knowledge for this very reason. Imagine someone you don't know taking pictures of you on the beach in your bathing suit while you are getting a tan and sleeping. I would get up and kick em in the nuts. Privacy = security = safety. In urban areas, this is magnified even more as you have more potential victims and more criminals. People do not tolerate someone who is looking over their shoulder at their laptop or cell phone, just like you don't want someone looking over your shoulder while you enter your pin at an ATM machine. It's not that these people are hiding something "bad", but they are concerned with their privacy for the sake of security. It is the same concern for the modern day stealth camper -- and it is magnified even more because a lapse in security could mean immediate danger, not just by some scammer across the internet. And, to tell these people that there is no way to achieve 100% stealth without giving a specific reason (i.e., giveaways like an AC unit on your roof, or even a vent) is probably not going to be enough to convince them to compromise their security and safety. I myself was not convinced and that is the reason I started this thread -- to see if anyone could provide a real reason 100% stealth was unattainable. What I have heard, and quite fairly, is that in certain areas (rural areas come to mind), 100% stealth is not attainable because "everyone knows everyone" and anything that is even slightly out of place sticks out like a sore thumb and can easily be called out. I agree with that. People that are old and have been living in the same home for 40 years can easily pick out anything that is not normally there, and have an affinity for calling the local police at the same time where they know the police by name. Similarly, small towns where there are 2 police that are responsible for the entire area can easily pick out someone not usually there, even those driving regular cars from out of town. However, in a densely populated area, you don't have to be the only one parked in a lot -- and you can always find other commercial vehicles to park next to. i can think of plenty of apartment complexes with free street parking outside and with other commercial vehicles parked there. The number of cars and people in the area means you are hiding in plain sight. If you make an effort to make your vehicle stealth using the methods described in this thread, you really can't be called out unless someone recognizes who you are or you do something stupid. I would say there is 0% or close to 0% chance of you being called out in this type of situation, and thus 100% stealth has practically been achieved. It's been pointed out that a lot of people in rural areas are very nice people and won't mess with you, but it only takes one person to ruin your life in today's age of security, and that is why people nowadays go to great lengths to protect their identity. In addition, police are now cracking down on van dwellers in places like California -- I've heard of many stories where the police come to "evict" a group of van dwellers, but leave the commercial vehicles alone. Van dwellers, for some reason or another, are seen as a threat to the fabric of society simply because it's outside the box and a lot people hate van dwellers, just as many people that accept and like van dwellers, and so they are targeted whether or not you think van dwelling is safe to do out in the open.
I hope I didn't go too long and I know I did. Thanks for reading and thanks everyone for contributing to this thoughtful debate! In the end, i think both 1. and 2. are correct -- it all depends on location, location, location. 100% stealth is achievable in some places, just like it is unachievable in other places. My solution, at least for now, would be to avoid those places and stick to safer and more secure areas!
