1/2 ton camper

[rruff]

I may look more into popup topper camper than a slide in camper because of weight difference. Camper sitting on bed rails still meets most of my needs. I'm mostly looking for standing headroom, and cab over bed.

Is this full-time, long trips, short trips? Are you fairly handy at building things? 5.5' bed with crew cab?

 

[Living 2.0]

I previously owned a 'Four Wheel Camper' - Fleet model, that I carried on a 2007 Tacoma (2nd Gen). I always felt it was heavier than what the manufacturer claimed. And was never comfortable driving it on two lane highways or off road. I dreaded meeting a transport truck heading in the opposition direction, even after suspension upgrades, and it would sway in moderate winds. But that was also partly due to the Tacoma frame design.

I now own a very similar 'All Terrain Camper' - custom built on their Bobcat design. I carry it on at 2002 Tacoma (older 1st Generation) and I am very happy with it. It handles much better than the previous setup, both on road and off, and I rarely feel the buffeting of oncoming 18-wheelers or other vehicles.

Tacomas are great trucks, for what they are designed for, but they have very little carrying capacity. Most can carry less than 1000 lbs. That's for accessories (like 4wd), passengers, fuel, water, food, tools, spares, clothing, camper, and whatever else you want to carry. If you get a chance, check the door sticker of a Tacoma. You might find some fully outfitted models with less than 900 lbs carrying capacity.

My All Terrain Camper, because it was custom built, weighed only 521 lbs when it left the factory. At my request, it is a few inches narrower than the Bobcat, so it doesn't extend beyond the width for the Tacoma. Manufacturers are required by law to provide a secondary/emergency egress - mine is different from the standard side window that is found on most. It serves double duty and saves a bit of weight. The overhang over the cab is shorter so it doesn't extend beyond the roof of the truck. This makes it less susceptible buffeting, is less stressful on the truck and camper, and makes it a bit more aerodynamic. Just a bit

Every ATC and FWC is hand made. They are aluminum welded framed and designed to move with the truck when going off road. ATC will still build you a custom camper at your request. (The other guys won't.) ATC are a small company in Sacramento, California, and are great down to earth guys. They have no desire to become corporate or to sellout so they are happy to take on bespoke builds. The owners, Jeff and Marty, have been building aluminum framed popup campers for over 40 years, each. If they don't believe your design will work, they will tell you, and probably won't build it. Integrity like this is hard to find these days.

Just this past winter I have travelled from New Brunswick, Canada, across the US, to Baja Mexico, and back. I couldn't ask for a better camper. Seriously. On the highway I only need to drive 5 mph slower to get the same 20 - 22mpg (Not bad for a 6 cyl 3.4L 20-year old truck! eh?) I had no problems going up hills. I could go down any trail I wanted in Baja (even found myself on the Baja 1000 trail and ended up on a beautiful secluded beach for 3 days!). I can stand up (I'm just over 6' tall). My bed is made in a couple of minutes. I'm warm. Comfortable. I have solar on the roof, an induction cooktop, etc... I've slept in my ATC in freezing temps, pouring rain, relentless desert winds, desert heat.

The Tacoma, even carrying less than the GVWR (I checked at two different scales) with all my gear, is another story.

One of the benefits of having the ATC is that, with few modifications, I can transfer it to a new truck in an afternoon. So I've ordered a Ford Ranger, which has far more carrying capacity, better brakes, and better handling characteristics.

These are not for everyone, but I have met a few others who live full time (5+ years) in their popup campers.

YMMV

I hope you are all well.

Santé,
Robert

 

[bullfrog]

^^^Do you think any truck can be as reliable as a well maintained V6 Toyota? Did you do any upgrades to the Toyota to accommodate the camper? What mechanical problems did you have? How much less than the GVWR? I agree Toyota Tacomas are not built to carry enough weight for a full timer or even pull it for that matter in my opinion, but I’m tempted to try after owning a Sequoia, maybe a Tundra.

 

[user 22017]

I'm curious if anyone knows, is it possible to carry a popup slide in camper on a 2019 Ram 1500. My payload limit is somewhere around 1850lbs. The campers i have found info on would be pushing that payload limit dry. Is anyone experienced with carrying a popup slide in camper?

Did you check out Four Wheel Camper?

 

[user 22017]

I previously owned a 'Four Wheel Camper' - Fleet model, that I carried on a 2007 Tacoma (2nd Gen). I always felt it was heavier than what the manufacturer claimed. And was never comfortable driving it on two lane highways or off road. I dreaded meeting a transport truck heading in the opposition direction, even after suspension upgrades, and it would sway in moderate winds. But that was also partly due to the Tacoma frame design.

Just realized you had issues with the Four Wheel Camper. Good to know.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Just re-stating what a couple of us have said: We don't recommend putting a slide-in camper (any make) on a 1/2 ton pickup (any make) (an exception might be if the slide-in was gutted and completely empty, everything removed, or one of the superlight slide-ins but they are VERY stripped down)

The toppers (any make) weigh a lot less, and most any 1/2 ton full size or mid-size pickup can handle a topper, even if it's a pop-up style. You will still need to be mindful of added weight after the topper is installed.

 

[user 22017]

Just re-stating what a couple of us have said: We don't recommend putting a slide-in camper (any make) on a 1/2 ton pickup...

Four Wheel makes Project M Forgot.

The FWC slide in camper weighs 935 pounds, but costs 10K more than the Project M.

In this truck forum, people kept telling me to add 1000 pounds to your camper weight to get the approx. fully loaded weight.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yes...that's exactly the reason.

Suppose the nifty new XYZ slide-in camper empty weight is 1200 pounds. And the 1/2 ton pickup payload limit (and rear axle rating) allow you to have 1500 pounds added to the pickup.

No problem you say!

Wrong. A couple of people (and their luggage) in the cab will usually add around 400-500 pounds before you have added any water, food, propane, ice, camping supplies, generator, tools, etc to the camper. Before you know it your 1200 pound slide-in with all the goodies is now 1000 pounds over the payload limit for the truck.

A simple one-piece topper or pop-up topper weighs much less....which gives you more un-used capacity for all the goodies you will add.

Most 3/4 and 1 ton pickups DO have the ability to carry a decent size slide-in but you may still need to check the suspension: shocks, springs, etc may need to be upgraded.

There used to be a company in Tennesee or Kentucky, someone migght remember the name, I can't, but they made very minimal super lightweight slide-in campers but they had no holding tanks, no propane tanks, and only a small window A/C and a microwave. I think a port-a-pottie was optional. I think they weighed around 800-1000 pounds if memory serves.

I believe they went out of business....victims a few years ago of the 'bigger is better' consumer preferences.

 

[rruff]

^^^Do you think any truck can be as reliable as a well maintained V6 Toyota?.... I’m tempted to try after owning a Sequoia, maybe a Tundra.

Yes, V8 Toyotas! Landcruisers, Sequoias, and Tundras win the prize for longevity. I had an old '84 22RE 2.4L 4 cyl pickup that suffered amazing abuse and kept on ticking. Made me a fan of the brand. The latest Tundra has gotten more complex with a twin turbo v6 the only option, and the Tacoma will likely go that route with the next upgrade.

One thing about Tacomas and <2022 Tundras is the flexible frame... nice for articulation, but not so nice for camper hauling. The domestics have had stiff fully boxed frames on everything 1 ton or less for several years.

 

[Living 2.0]

A couple of points to add to my above post and perhaps to address some comments that followed.

Weight will always be the enemy. It puts a strain on all the mechanical parts, it limits where you can go, it's harder on engine, gas mileage, brakes, suspension, frame, etc. Things wear out faster. But that applies to all vehicles. Most of us have seen full size pickups which were overloaded with large campers, with bikes, canoes, power generators, winches, spare wheels, etc. (Same same, but different (bigger)).

All Terrain Campers (perhaps others as well) will happily build you a lightweight "shell" model of any of their campers. That's how mine started at 521 lbs. It came with a full sized 75 x 65" bed, a 4" foam mattress, I could stand up without slouching (I'm just over 6', or was last time I was last measured... I may have shrunk since then), it had insulated and finished walls, a finished floor, 4 windows, a roof vent, interior and exterior LED lighting, etc. It was hand made by professionals who have been building them for over 40 years and understand what is needed.

The Leer fibreglass truck bed topper that I had on the Tacoma previous to that weighed just over 300 lbs. . Without any added comforts. It was a fibreglass shell with windows on the sides and the tailgate. I needed to crouch to get in and out. I needed to add a sleep system. etc. It was not weather sealed so when it rained water would seep in. No insulation. At the end of a long day on dry dusty roads, I'd open up the back to find a film of dust over everything. It got old very quickly. I was not comfortable. Cooped up inside for a day or two in the pouring rain made me an even less pleasant person to be around. And I'm a guy that lived and travelled out of a motorcycle for 9 months.

The best thing, I think, you can do is talk to as many people as possible who have a setup similar to what you are considering. I've had conversations with all manner of people in Walmart parking lots, rest stops, camp grounds, events, etc. asking them about their campers. I've approached some, some have approached me. Most people are happy to answer your questions if you come to them wanting to learn. Non-pro Tip: Ask them what they'd changed. There is no perfect system for everyone. We all have different wants and comfort tolerances. Listen to their answers. You might get some insight into what is important for them.

At last year's RTR I saw some wonderful builds of all shapes and sizes and talked with many who were happy to share their experiences. If you can make it down, it's a wonderful place to meet and talk to like minded people with similar and different builds. You should come away with a wide appreciation for what is possible. Ordinary people at events like the RTR are happy to answer questions and share experiences. I'm a veteran traveller (meaning both old and I have many miles under me) in all manner of vehicles and am anxious to go back and learn more.

I know I'm going off the OP's question here for a bit. Please bear with me.

Re the (not) 1/2 ton Tacoma. I have had the benefit of driving other people's Toyota Hilux pickups in Thailand, Argentina, and Costa Rica. They are vastly different from the Toyota Tacomas, which are exclusive to North American. Much of Toyota's reputation with pickups was made with the old Hilux that was available here until 1995 (I think?) and overseas where it is and was used in war zones, by farmers, etc... (Sidenote, the US military had long switched to the Ford Ranger prior to exiting Afghanistan) And as someone previously stated above, the 22RE 2.4L 4 cyl, was a fantastic little engine that could. But that has not been available in North America for a while now.

The current Toyota Hilux pickups are not simply rebadged Tacomas, or visa-versa. When Toyota first released the Tacoma in 1995 (I think?), they understood that North American farmers and businesses preferred a larger pickup. They understood the NA consumer market wanted a reliable, softer sprung, more comfortable, grocery getter. And while Toyota continued to develop and sell their Hilux work horses around the world, they traded that for comfort and connivance for the NA markets. And for that, for our big multilane highways, for taking the kids safely and reliably to school every weekday morning, for the occasional weekend camping venture with the girlfriend, they are a good choice, (if you can stomach the looks of the current model, but that's a personal taste).

Incidentally, the comparison reviews, all rate (including Consumer Reports) the current Ford Ranger above the current Tacoma.

I'm brand agnostic. I've owned Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus, BMWs, Mazdas. I've driven Dodges, Chevys, and Fords (legally) harder and faster than anyone should. I've ridden a 1200cc motorcycle from the east coast of Canada to the southern tip of South America, and then back in 9 months. I've flown to Vietnam, purchased for $300 a dodgy 110cc Honda Cub and road around that wonderful country. And now that I'm old(er), while I am still able, I want to go explore more of the world, for as long and as far as I am able.

So, after all my experiences, why did I pick a second Tacoma? I made a mistake. I had narrowed my choices down to the current Ford Ranger and a 1st generation Tacoma. I chose the first generation Taco as it is close enough to the old Hilux in design that I figured could probably find and fit parts as needed wherever and whenever I broke down. That, and also after an electronics problem I had with the motorcycle I rode to South America, I had placed too much emphasis on wanting as few electronics as possible controlling vital systems. Being able to fix mechanical issues when (not if) and wherever I happened to break down becomes important with international vehicle-dependant travel. That should not be a concern for most, unless you plan on venturing beyond North America (CDN, US, MX, and central America). I'm telling you all this as I don't want you to make the same mistakes I made. I should have chosen the current Ford Ranger, which is available around the world (Manufactured in Thailand, South Africa, Detroit, and I think somewhere in South America).

But don't listen to me. I'm just Joe Public. An old bloke. Don't follow my suggestions. Go out and make your own mistakes. If you are not afraid to make mistakes, you'll learn a lot. With that said, I'll share my non-professional opinion, I would not hesitate to put a well build, solid, lightweight camper on a small pickup with a minimum of 1200 lbs carrying capacity. Weight is your enemy. Bigger is seldom better, unless you don't want to go very far or off road. As others have pointed out, don't forget to factor in the weight of passengers, gear, food, fuel, water, spares, etc. Also consider what, where and how you plan to use your rig.

YMMV.

I hope you are all well! ✌

Santé,
Robert

 

[Living 2.0]

 

[hugemoth]

I like to go small to get into spots other rigs can't. My homemade pop-up camper on my 93 Toyota pickup, 2.4 5 speed. Weight guess is 600 lbs, mostly in the all steel pop top. I added a leaf to the rear springs because the 2wd trucks are pretty soft. The little truck handles it fine while it also pulls an open trailer with a quad and small motorcycle.

 

[ibuzzard]

I bought a vintage shell for my 66 F250. It is tall enough and light enough, and am converting it into a quite capable vehicle. If I wouldn’t have been able to find what I wanted used, I’d have ordered a new one from these guys:


http://belairshells.com/custom-camper-shells
I would never own a truck with less than a full 4x8 bed, and wouldn’t dream of a low cab-height camper shell. Reduced mpg is the penalty I gladly pay for something that actually works for us. Our bed is crossways right behind the cab, we can do that as we are 5’8” or less. We have a ton of space.

 

[dhuff]

Thanks for the photos! Could you, or anyone who owns one of these, comment on some more details RE: how they're built / durability ? I like that they use an aluminum frame, but how about the roof ? (one piece ? periodic sealing needed ?), the walls, insulation, etc... ?

 

[tradesman]

I like to go small to get into spots other rigs can't. My homemade pop-up camper on my 93 Toyota pickup, 2.4 5 speed.View attachment 32513 Weight guess is 600 lbs, mostly in the all steel pop top. I added a leaf to the rear springs because the 2wd trucks are pretty soft. The little truck handles it fine while it also pulls an open trailer with a quad and small motorcycle.

Does your top fold down like this Ford Travelwagon?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-ford-econoline-3/

 

[user 22017]

I bought a vintage shell for my 66 F250. It is tall enough and light enough, and am converting it into a quite capable vehicle. If I wouldn’t have been able to find what I wanted used, I’d have ordered a new one from these guys:


http://belairshells.com/custom-camper-shells
I would never own a truck with less than a full 4x8 bed, and wouldn’t dream of a low cab-height camper shell. Reduced mpg is the penalty I gladly pay for something that actually works for us. Our bed is crossways right behind the cab, we can do that as we are 5’8” or less. We have a ton of space.

Beautiful truck. I linked to Bel-Air shells above. Did you see it? The guy got his shell from a company Bel-Air contracts to & only paid $3,500.

I thought about putting my cot crossways in my truck bed, but thought I wouldn't be able to stretch my legs. I'm 5'9".

 

[user 22017]

I'm curious if anyone knows, is it possible to carry a popup slide in camper on a 2019 Ram 1500. My payload limit is somewhere around 1850lbs. The campers i have found info on would be pushing that payload limit dry. Is anyone experienced with carrying a popup slide in camper?

Found another popup (950 lb dry):

https://outfittermfg.com/shop-campers/caribou-lite-6-5

 

[user 22017]

Project M prototype? It is a 1997 FWC on craigslist for $4,500 (Denver)

 

[hugemoth]

Does your top fold down like this Ford Travelwagon?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-ford-econoline-3/

Exactly, it's off of a 1964 Ford Travel wagon. Very clever design that has lasted 58 years so far.

 

[Living 2.0]

Thanks for the photos! Could you, or anyone who owns one of these, comment on some more details RE: how they're built / durability ? I like that they use an aluminum frame, but how about the roof ? (one piece ? periodic sealing needed ?), the walls, insulation, etc... ?

If you are referring to the All Terrain Camper, you'll find many of the answers to your questions at the their site. However, here's what I know.

The aluminum frame of an ATC is welded together. It's designed to bend and move with the truck. Pickups, except for a few of the newer ones (ie Honda Ridgeline, Ford Maverick, etc) are designed and built on a seperate frame so they can carry more load over rough terrain. That is part of the reason truck beds are separated from the cab, and not one unit like most modern cars. If they were too rigid and not designed to bend a little, they would snap. The seperate frame is also the reason trucks are heavier, and why we may see fewer of them in the future.

A properly designed and built camper should last longer. ATC's tag line is built to survive, or something similar. I say 'should last longer' as everything has limits. Factors include where you drive it (ocean salt air, humidity, UV rays, etc), if you live in it (exposed more to the elements vs parked in a shaded garage 50 weeks a year), if you maintain it, address problems as they happen, abuse it. Etc.

Here's a bit more of my experience with my ATC.

One day this past February, I drove all day, literally morning to just before sunset, down a dirt road that that happened to be part of the Baja 1000 route (I didn't go looking for it) to find a deserted beach. At the end of that day I needed a new battery for the Tacoma (vibration will severely shorten the life of the battery) so I was happy to have a seperate solar system. I didn't have any issues with my All Terrain Camper.

A few days later, somewhere on my way back to civilization, fresh water, and groceries, the spare tire carrier failed and without notice dropped a brand new spare and brand new rim somewhere in the Baja desert. It was only when I reached pavement, stopping to air the tires back up, that I noticed the spare had disappeared somewhere in the precious 4 hours. That's how violent and rough the route was. Yet there was not one issue with my ATC. Everything inside had been tossed around, but there there was no damage inside or out.

Side note > On the way to that secluded beach I followed a van lifer who's very expensive bike rake failed and very expensive custom bicycle dropped and dragged on the ground until I could get the driver to stop. I don't know how many thousands of dollars in damages was done with that one incident. Again I tell you this so you know that was not an easy road.

Back to your questions > The roof is not one piece. An aluminum skin is screwed to the aluminum frame that forms the room. Every 2 or 3 years it would be a good idea to back off the screws, remove the old silicon, and reseal with good quality silicon. The sun's rays are harsh so do use a good quality silicon. Jeff or Marty will be happy to tell you what they use.

Other maintenance involves cleaning the canvas walls and applying a '303' brand UV protectant once or twice a year. The guys at ATC will tell you over and over and then tell you again to never allow ArmourAll within 100 metres (sorry, yards) of your camper. It is not the same. Over time ArmourAll will deteriorate the canvas. (Ever notice that people who use ArmourAll on their tires and interior s need to keep reapply it to make them look good? Now you know why.) 303 is used in the marine and aircraft industries. It's not cheap, but it works, it protects from harmful UV, and in the long run your canvas will last longer. Who doesn't want that?

I don't recall which material ATC uses for insulation so I won't mislead you. I do know in mine it's not the pink stuff. I looked behind the walls as I wanted to see the framing and wiring. Yea, I'm like that.

Final point. This winter was a trial run for the truck and camper. I'm fortunate and very grateful to be alive and l have big plans for future travel. So my goal this past winter was to see if the truck and camper lived up to their billing. I came away confident my ATC was indeed built to survive.

Hope this answers some of your questions. I'm not a sales person. I could never be a marketer. I don't get anything from ATC, and pay full price for everything I get from them. I believe in their products and in their service and so I'm happy to promote them.

Bonus side note > Where do you think 'the other guys' send their customers for repair work? Yeap. ATC.

Hope you are all well.

Santé,
Robert