firearms

this thread is to discuss firearms....what we carry, what's on our wishlist, the pros and cons of carrying firearms for personal protection.<div><br></div><div>i ask that this thread be reserved for the thoughtful sharing of information, ideas, and experiences. please be respectful of the great responsibility we have when we carry weapons, and that if called into necessity, we are discussing the possibility of taking a human life, a serious action under any circumstance.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>hi Bill. there are a lot of opinions out there, but don't want to discuss them here. how others view the subject is not the focus, as this thread is not intended for debate, but more for information exchange.</div><div><br></div>

vonu said:

<div><br></div><div>Force equality makes self defense an appropriate action.</div><div>The use of a firearm by one who cannot hit the least deadly part of the threat is seen by many as irresponsible incompetence.</div>

Click to expand...

if it does not involve debate or argument, then how is it you say i am limiting it? i am all for information exchange. does that information necessarily include that some people think where i hit my target is irresponsible incompetence? just the framing of the sentence seems to invite controversy.....<div><br></div><div>i want to avoid all the controversial stuff, the emotionally laden phrasing and posturing. if i can't set up the threads in such a way that invites thoughtful exchange....if that is seen as too limiting.....then perhaps i was hasty in broaching these topics.</div><div><br></div>

Well, this is a topic that Heidi and I have been very into lately. I grew up with guns and had been planning on buying more of them for the last several years, just hadn't done it. I won't get into reason or debate or opinions etc.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>What we have is a Mossberg short home defense style 12gauge and a Beretta PX4 Storm Full size in a .40 cal. Heidi claims the shotgun and the handgun is considered to be for me though they are both "ours".</div><div><br></div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div><a href="http://www.px4storm.com/" target="_blank">http://www.px4storm.com/</a></div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.px4storm.com/" target="_blank"></a>The shotgun barrel is too short to be good for hunting at the moment, but we will be getting a longer barrel so we can use it at least for grouse.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Read up on the National Park and National Forest laws. (they are different). It is now legal to carry in all but 3 of the National Parks. (as of 2010 and of course double check that). It is also legal to carry in National Forests for the most part. Check your specific area to be sure as some states that may not be the case. I have been reading and researching it here in Washington for a while and we are fine for both areas. Carrying and shooting of course are two different things. You can target shoot in NFS land within some basic rules which you should get from the respective authorities in your location. Not the case with the National Parks. There it would be for defense purposes only.</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

on my wishlist:<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.impactguns.com/mossberg-...en-tube-mustbe21yrsold51340-015813513401.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.impactguns.com/mossberg-...en-tube-mustbe21yrsold51340-015813513401.aspx</a></div><div><br></div><div>i have a .22 rifle that i've hauled across country a couple times, more of a hunting survival gun in case i gotta get some squirrels to eat after the collapse.</div><div><br></div><div>also on my wishlist:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.gunblast.com/Glock26.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/Glock26.htm</a></div><div><br></div><div>although i had alot of fun with the .45 cal of wayne's that i practiced with in the desert.....&nbsp;<br><br>i traded in my old clunky .38 revolver and picked up a Ruger .380 LCP, compliments of my brother. he hated that revolver (i didn't exactly love it) and the fact that i rarely carried it. the LCP is perfect for edc for now, even if it's alot less firepower than i like, because it's so compact and always there.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/index.html?r=y" target="_blank">http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/index.html?r=y</a></div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>when i have the money, i will get the glock 9mm......</div>

The little Ruger is nice <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> I can see where it would be an easy one to keep with you.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I tried quite a few Glocks and a bunch of others including my old choice which was a Sig, all in .40 S&amp;W, but the Beretta felt best in my hand by quite a bit. Heidi plans to get a pistol for herself too before too long so we get to do some more shopping. Always fun!&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I saw a Taurus Judge advertisement and I think if for some reason I get another, I would want to take a closer look at that model. Looks pretty nice! I suppose that's potentially my "wish list" gun...</div><div><br></div><div>You still like the wheel guns don't ya Kate?&nbsp;</div>

i do love wheel guns, but i had one incident in the middle of the night scrambling around the van trying to load a revolver in the dark, hissing at Laren on the phone, and bullets flying everywhere but into the gun. (i was in a state where i thought my concealed carry wasn't honored and had the ammo stored separate from the gun). i swore after that i would always have one pistol that could be loaded by slapping in a magazine.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>i have since also become more committed to avoiding states that don't honor my permit. i am soon getting a florida permit that will increase the number of states i can legally carry in.</div><div><br></div><div>i have had an ongoing love affair with the Judge. i think there are some new models out i haven't seen. got a link to the one you like? i actually had one on layaway that i switched to that Taurus i used to carry.</div>

The Serbu's are fun... I've shot one. They are still a bit of a range gun / toy (kind of like a Draco or Mare's Leg.) With the Serbu, more due to their limited capacity.<br><br><i>Remember: the Serbu Shorty is classed by the ATF as an AOW (Any Other Weapon</i>) <i>under the NFA. NFA registered weapons fall under their own rules for carry / transport and some States require you contact via mail prior to crossing into their State in possession of a NFA classed gun. AOW or SBR.</i><br><br>For standard "home defense," it's hard to beat a pump shotgun. Most folks advocate a 12g but I would suggest a 20g; nearly the same <i>energy </i>with much less recoil. Typically, in-home I would suggest a full-stock and leave the pistol-grip-only option alone. A shooter will always do better with the full stock shotgun over a PGO. It's not to say that a PGO shooter can't do an adequate job, but they are handicapped from the onset.<br><br>I own a number of handguns and rifles. It's a bit of a hobby. Spouse has synonyms for the word "hobby" that are somewhat less flattering. Go figure.<br><br>I like .45 acp. I like it a lot. It has mild recoil and the JHP, in the unfired form, is still as wide as a 9mm can hope to be <i>after</i> it has expanded. Still, 9mm shines due to the soooo much smaller cartridge size and hence larger capacity in the same form factor.<br><br>I've got two 9mm, full-size double stack handguns. A Glock 17 and a Sig 226 E2. One is in the Gun Vault (a small, portable safe that opens with a finger press combo) on the nightstand and the other is a (locked) glove compartment gun. They can each provide 17-18 rounds in each magazine and each supports a extended magazine with up to 33 rounds. The full size allows the shooter to be back on target quickly. I have a .22 conversion kit for the Glock that allows shooting of .22 long rifle in a change that takes about 20 seconds. Basically, you swap slides and have difference magazines.<br><br>The "woods" gun is often a wheelie. A Ruger GP100 .357 4" or a little H&amp;R 900 9-shot .22LR. Loading the .357 with hard cast 180gr or 200gr cartridges make it fine for lower 48 four legged problems and waaayy more than satisfactory for 2-legged problems.<br><br>There are some that I own just because I like them (S&amp;W 4506-1, HK P7 Squeezecocker, East German Mak, S&amp;W Victory .38) but the ones I typically carry are single-stack .45s. They shoot well for me and I find they are the most comfortable to conceal with the slim grip. The carry rotation includes a Glock 36 (the only single-stack Glock,) a S&amp;W Chief's Special .45, and a S&amp;W 4553TSW. Once in a blue moon, the Springfield 1911 gets carried. <br><br>Tiny BUGs (Back Up Guns) are great for in-pocket-holster carry like my Kel Tec P3AT and P-64 Mak. The downside is that they are a bit of a handful to shoot with their tiny form factor in my big hands.<br><br>Long arms? AKs are great for reliability. I am partial to Hungarian ones. The Czech VZ-58 is awesome with a milled-rather-than-stamped-receiver but still being quite light. Though they resemble AK's, the only part they share in common are the cartridge. Only one AR for me - a Bushmaster - but it is fun to shoot with minimal recoil. All of these are great fun but not something I would suggest for van travel due to the surprise from folks because they look so menacing. <br><br>(Let's be honest here... 7.62x39 - the typical AK chambering is equivalent in ballistics to the traditional 30-30 lever gun. The 5.56 (.223) of the AR? Fast but light. These are medium energy cartridges, at best. The traditional .308 hunting cartridge has more power and the ubiquitous 30-06 has MUCH more power. In the semi-auto form, the AK and AR are fun to shoot and have large capacity magazines but are not "super weapons." )<br><br>Alternative? I've got a lever action, .44 magnum rifle with a 16.5" barrel. "Trapper" model. Uber lightweight, handy, manageable, and powerful over a short distance. (Pistol cartridge lever gun means they are higher capacity but their energy bleeds off much more quickly over distance than a traditional rifle cartridge.) The big plus? It looks like a cowboy rifle. If you step out of a van with an AR or AK, many bystanders are alarmed. If you step out with a beautiful, small lever action John-Wayne-rifle - well, bystanders think you look... <i>quirky.</i> That kinda goes without being said for most of us!<br><br>Permits: I've got a lifetime Indiana permit and a non-resident Utah license. There are a few States that issue non-resident permits - Utah is one of the more popular. It covers me in something like 40 of 50 States. My Indiana (as an Indiana resident, it is required for me) gets me 3 or 4 more. <br><br>Most States allow safe passage with a firearm though there are restrictions regarding storage and ammo. A permit allows you to have it loaded and on-person. <br><br>I'm not "militant." I don't want "trouble." I hope to never have to fire a gun at another human. To protect myself, <i>or my family</i>, I have trained for that possibility. There are two ways for another to <i>compel me to do something</i>: through force and violence *or* thru reasoning and sound argument. Being in the position to protect yourself, negates the compulsion of force. I'm 6'3" and 200lbs. Reasonably athletic. I'm not the first target of choice but am not immune.<div><br></div><div> <br><br>Always avoid trouble by remaining aware and be prepared to flee. Escaping a fight is always preferable to finishing one - both from moral conscience and legal ramifications. Even a justified, legal self-defense shooting will likely be financially devastating and limiting of your freedom.<br><br>Further, all guns are locked up. They are either in hands / holster, or locked into a safe / lock box. Never, ever leave loaded firearms around children. That .38 in the nightstand drawer becomes a news story we air on my station every couple of months due to a deceased child. <br><br>For inexpensive but serviceable firearms, used is fine. The range of Makarovs are good... whether the Bulgarian surplus Makarov (PM) or the guns that are Makarovs only in name because they are chambered in the 9x18 Makarov round: CZ82, Polish P64 (with a spring change) or Hungarian P63. <br><br>Ruger semi-autos are H-E-A-V-Y but fine for in-the-van if you don't plan to carry. They are well built and their weight absorbs recoil nicely. <br><br>Police trade in K-frame Smith and Wesson .38 revolvers are fine too.<br><br>Single shot shotguns can be purchased CHEAP used. I bought two 12g shotguns for $45. I refinished the metal, wood stocks and shortened the barrels to a legal 18.5". I gave one to a friend and the other is a like a spare-tire / jack in my car. Again, get a 20g is you can. Much easier to handle than the 12g in a lightweight, single-shot platform.<br><br>In the couple of weeks before Christmas and after deer season, 30-30 lever actions are cheap. A 30-30 lever should handle all problems without any odd looks.<br><br>A few pics below to illustrate visually what I mentioned above.<br><br>Single-shot 12g with a bout $25 into it.<br> <br>Same gun as purchased.<br> <br><br>Sig Sauer P226 E2.<br> <br><br>Mosin Nagant M44 in 7.62x54, Czech VZ-58 in 7.62x39 and Bushmaster AR in .223.<br> <br><br>.45 Single Stacks: S&amp;W 4506-1, CS45 and 4553TSW.<br> <br><br>Glock 36 - Single Stack .45<br> <br><br>S&amp;W Victory Model .38. (From WWII)<br> <br><br>HK P7 PSP in 9mm. (Squeezecocker.)<br> <br><br>Ruger GP100 .357 Mag.<br> <br><br>4506-1 with 1911.<br> <br><br>Draco.&nbsp; (AK Pistol.) Without a stock, basically a range toy with limited real usage. Not to say they can't be effective but you've handicapped yourself from the onset. Not as agile as a real handgun (one-handed shooting not possible) and more difficult to use than a stocked rifle. SOLD.<br> <br><br>Lil H&amp;R 900 9-shot .22LR.<br> <br><br>Polish P-64 9x18 Makarov.<br> <br><br>Glock 17 9x19. Has the big 33 round magazine in it for that pic along with laser and light. House-gun. <br> <br> <br><br>Tiny P3AT 9x17 with the East German Mak and Polish P64.<br> <br><br>Hungarian AKs<br> <br> <br><br>Cute but "range toy" "Mare's Leg. Rossi Ranch Hand. Add the rest of the stock back to it and 4" to the barrel and you have the USEFUL .44 Carbine I love.<br> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br></div>

Nice collection there Paddling Man!<div><br></div><div>Hey Kate, this is the one I was thinking of.</div><div><br></div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div><a href="http://www.ammoland.com/2010/01/22/taurus-judge-public-defender-polymer-revolver/" target="_blank">http://www.ammoland.com/2010/01/22/taurus-judge-public-defender-polymer-revolver/</a></div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.ammoland.com/2010/01/22/taurus-judge-public-defender-polymer-revolver/" target="_blank"></a>&nbsp;</div>

<FONT face="times new roman, times, serif" size=3>A birdshot shotgun shell would be awesome for close-up&nbsp;camper protection.&nbsp; A 00 round would probably take your shoulder off...lol </FONT><br>

Lol. I'm a light-hearted guy who loves people. I find it preferable to be able to defend myself in a life-or-death confrontation and avoid it vigorously than being caught in an unavoidable bad situation with no means of defense. Avoidance is paramount but I refuse to let bad folks rob me of my freedom of adventure too.

I am just a simple, peaceful, quiet dude trying to make my way in a harmonious world that occasionally turns ugly. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

I've lived in TX,OK and other "tornado alley" states for 40+ years and have never seen a tornado. Most homicides&nbsp; involve domestic disputes; not killings by strangers. People are so fearful and sometimes about the wrong things. Leading causes of death in the US ('08):<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Heart disease: 616,067<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cancer: 562,875<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Stroke: 135,952<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Chronic respiratory diseases: 127,924<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Accidents: 123,706<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Alzheimer's: 74,632<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Diabetes: 71,382<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nephritis: 46,448<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Septicemia: 34,828<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Medical mistakes: ?<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Medication errors: ?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Murders: 14,300<br><br>(But I do own a SW .357 Security-Six. It's in the vehicle when I travel. I don't feel the need to pack)<br><br><br>

slowday said:

I've lived in TX,OK and other "tornado alley" states for 40+ years and have never seen a tornado. Most homicides&nbsp; involve domestic disputes; not killings by strangers. People are so fearful and sometimes about the wrong things.<br><br><br>

Click to expand...

<br><br>We all have to die eventually. I will just avoid any form that is premature. <br>In 2008, there were only 2,650 deaths due to residential building fires compared to 14,300 murders. I also keep fire extinguishers &amp; smoke detectors in my home.<br>http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/statistics/estimates/index.shtm<br><br>There is a spare tire and jack in my car though I don't expect to need it. <br><br>Fear makes folks stay home and unexposed. Confidence and preparation let's folks venture forth in life prepared for a variety of catastrophes.<br>

slowday said:

<br><br>(But I do own a SW .357 Security-Six. It's in the vehicle when I travel. I don't feel the need to pack)<br><br><br>

Click to expand...

<br><br>BTW - Security Six is a Ruger, not a Smith and Wesson. The adjustable sight version of the fixed sight Speed Six and predecessor to the GP100/SP101. They're nice revolvers. I prefer Ruger revolvers over Smith. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br>

To add a few to the year 2008,<br><br>There were 4,856,510 "Crimes of violence" in the United States in 2008. 203,830 ****/Sexual Assaults. Of these "Crimes of Violence, 49.9% involved strangers.<br><br>http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus0802.pdf<br><br>The world is NOT a scary place. I have a fantastic time! Statistics are just that: statistics. <br><br><br>Anyway, back to the OT. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br><br>

I never carried while vandwelling cause of the driving back and forth through Canada thing. &nbsp;I usually carried a good sharp little knife (and yes, I know how to use it). &nbsp;Now that I'm rooted and van camp when I go to town for work I have more guns. &nbsp;I'm kind of sentimental 'bout my guns - they all came to me. &nbsp;Also I am pretty much always packing (being that I'm a woman who lives alone in the woods in an area with 7 times the national **** average and stuff - around here they call me Pistol Packin' Mama for short and I consider that good protection).<div><br></div><div>I have a 45 hi-point that was given to me as an end of romance gift four or five years ago. &nbsp;It's made out of plastic and the last bullet in the clip (any clip) jams, but it's convenient to carry without being small enough for idiots to miss it. &nbsp;Also it does great in the cold/heat/cold situation. &nbsp;Someday I'll trade it in for a safer longer lasting wheel gun, but in the meantime it's been proven to run off aggressive drunks and angry bears when shot in the air or into the ground in front of them.</div><div><br></div><div>And a Marlin 22 that a friend gave me in a trade. &nbsp;It's awesome and I've put a lot of "miles" on it, but I have to re sight it in every couple weeks. &nbsp;I wanna just liquid weld the sights in place but my friend the gun expert makes fun of me for my use of liquid weld on...</div><div><br></div><div>The best gun ever! &nbsp;It's a Steyer made in 1911 and then captured during the war and repurposed for the 7.62 rounds with the Winchester 308 barrel. &nbsp;When it came to me some (the forum actually made me delete the word that was here before this would post lol) had sawed off the original front site and screwed a glow in the dark thingy in. &nbsp;It shot like four feet off at a hundred yards. &nbsp;Even tho I loved the original back site I ended up ordering a whole new site that's supposed to work for that gun. &nbsp;But it was like a triangle groove situation and no groove existed on my gun, so I filed one in and stuck the whole thing together with liquid weld. &nbsp;All the serial numbers match and it's got old scratches and grooves from when it was in the trenches and such a nice heft to it that, swear to gosh, it doesn't even kick as much as the 22. &nbsp;</div>

<B>Great Balls Of Firepower Pad Man, can I camp on the same side of the creek as you when the Zombies come? <IMG border=0 align=absMiddle src="https://vanlivingforum.com/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif">&nbsp;&nbsp; You have a nice gun collection there, safety first huh?</B><BR><B>Diane</B><BR>

okay, i owe Paddling man a huge apology.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>last night he made a reply to dragonfly about her above comment. unfortunately, he had to make the comment in a different thread because i had locked this one down.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>well, this morning i put on my scullery wench outfit and attempted to tidy everything up and restore the thread to the original topic, and managed to delete Paddle Man's reply, which was very sweet, and i'm jealous because i want to be on that side of the creek with him and dragonfly, (can i? huh? i have a very small gun, but a scary tattoo, and i'll have everybody's back!)</div><div><br></div><div>so please, Paddleman, repost, and my apologies.</div><div><br></div><div>kate</div>

twokniveskatie said:

okay, i owe Paddling man a huge apology.&nbsp;<DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>last night he made a reply to dragonfly about her above comment. unfortunately, he had to make the comment in a different thread because i had locked this one down.&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>well, this morning i put on my scullery wench outfit and attempted to tidy everything up and restore the thread to the original topic, and managed to delete Paddle Man's reply, which was very sweet, and i'm jealous because i want to be on that side of the creek with him and dragonfly, (can i? huh? i have a very small gun, but a scary tattoo, and i'll have everybody's back!)</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>so please, Paddleman, repost, and my apologies.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>kate</DIV><P>

Click to expand...

</P><P><b>You will be most welcome, I need to make it known though, I don't want one of you to mistake me for a Zombie holding a coffee cup when I awaken in the morning and step out of my camper.</b></P>

hahahah! for zombies, i think i have to use a machete, eh? and in the morning i am too creaky and slow to wield a machete in a manner that would threaten anything. so pass the coffee&nbsp;<img border="0" align="absmiddle" src="https://vanlivingforum.com/images/boards/smilies/kiss.gif">