You don't need a gun in the wilderness

[dhuff]

Excellent article in Outside magazine by an author very familiar with firearms:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/dont-hike-with-guns/

This isn't an invitation to start arguing about "guns in America." It's a thoughtful piece by an an outdoor writer, editor, and backcountry guide on a specific topic. Worth reading and considering. As a recent video Bob posted relates, nomads are the safest people in America.

 

[wayne49]

Bob Wells open carried a .357 Magnum to protect his dog and himself from mountain lions, et al.

 

[user 22017]

Bob Wells open carried a .357 Magnum to protect his dog and himself from mountain lions, et al.

Bob doesn't get everything right.

Good article, dhuff

 

[Frood]

Although...

https://www.readersdigest.ca/culture/grizzly-bear-attack-pocket-knife/
Gives you things to think about and consider. In the end everyone needs to be responsible
for their own decisions in this matter.

 

[peteg59]

If you choose to venture out unarmed, that is your choice entirely! Nothing wrong with that decision if that is how you roll.

I would rather have one and not need it, than not have one and need it!
Especially when alone in a dangerous predators "hood"...

 

[hugemoth]

When it comes to cougar attacks it's likely you will never know it's nearby until you feel it's teeth crunching into your neck.

 

[Oldwolf]

Yes, an interesting article. Although, I took exception to a few of his over-generalized statements such as "Still, some people will insist they need a gun just in case. This means one of two things: they are completely terrified of some unspecified threat, or they simply like guns because they’re cool and want to carry one."

 

[JeepLiving]

A lot of times, I believe, the choice to carry or not is informed by one's experiences with guns. The few people I've known even a slightly that insist on being armed in outdoor non-hunting environments grew up in a gun culture. They grew up hunting and shooting and considered themselves adept at handling weapons. I (and the overwhelming majority of people I know) didn't grow up with guns. Born and raised in the Northeast, guns were simply not a popular past-time then. If I had friends or associates that did own guns, they never talked about them, at least not to me.

I've been enjoying the outdoors since I was an infant and in over 60 years of hiking and camping, it never even occurred to me that I would want a gun. I've lived in major cities, poor neighborhoods, suburbs and rural areas. I've never been in a situation that made me second-guess my decision to eschew guns. I spend time in Nature for enjoyment and relaxation. Now I nomad for the same reasons. If I suddenly felt that living the way I do was too dangerous without a firearm, I'd be much more likely to re-evaluate my lifestyle than to go to the trouble and expense needed to properly equip and train myself as a shooter. Fortunately, I haven't had to give it much thought because I don't anticipate my attitude changing.

For me personally, needing a weapon to defend myself against ..... something ..... would be me letting fear dictate my actions. These fears would be based on extremely low likelihood scenarios which -- to reiterate -- have never yet presented themselves. I rely on situational awareness to feel secure. That works fine.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Just my take: Being prepared is not the same as being fearful.

You might have a fire extinguisher and a spare tire and a toolbox full of wrenches and wirecutters and pliers in your vehicle. ...does that mean you are 'afraid' of a fire, a flat, or a plumbing or electrical repair? No, it just means you are prepared to deal with issues as they arise.

Having a sidearm and a non-lethal deterrent (like pepper or bear spray) just means you are prepared to deal with a variety of situations.

Out in public or on my own somewhere, I'm not fearful, but I have had large aggressive dogs attack my smaller dog when the owner has let their large dog wander around with no leash.

Luckily, I have not had to use the firearm, but I HAVE used the pepper spray a few times as a deterrent and it has always worked....so far. I do not like doing that. I find no joy there, but the end result is that all of us were uninjured and the aggressive dogs have always backed off.

But one never knows. So I always have a backup plan.

 

[Morgana]

Being prepared is not the same as being fearful.

Hear, hear.

Personal $0.02: guns horrify me, and yet some of the people I respect most in this world are gun owners. I cannot think myself into their frame of mind, but I know they got there in a responsible and even kind way. (And trust me, in a pinch, you want them on your side way before you want me) I took a hunter safety class once to try to "get" it more. Yep, cool piece of machinery. Nope, 15 minutes (of hands-on) was plenty and I have now safely filed it under "don't have to do that again." But I can respect it.

What it took to get me to even consider seeing it from their point of view, after a lifetime of just pure "anti"? Seeing them in action living their lives as decent, kind, patient, competent people. All the soapbox rants in the world wouldn't have done it. Vive la différence!

 

[bullfrog]

I understand some countries require all their citizens to be trained in the safe and appropriate use of firearms and have severe penalties which are enforced if not followed. That isn’t our country’s standard. Living remotely in rural areas of Arkansas and Eastern Kentucky I can’t begin to remember how many times my vehicles and houses have been hit by bullets and I and my friends have experienced several near misses while hiking in the woods. Some accidental, some mistaken (don’t ever drive a brown pickup in the woods during hunting season), some intensionally although most times the shooter was drunk but not all. The biggest danger in the woods is another person with a gun at least in this country. The article is well written and factual in my opinion but the most important is weight, I used a spork when I backpacked to save the few oz. of weight of a knife and fork, you really want to carry extra pounds of ammo and a firearm? One of the biggest joys of hiking is being free of the worldly things that weigh you down.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yes it's very dependent on the situation and environment. If I was 'hiking' or 'backpacking' alone or with a group, and assuming my dog is not with us, I would probably not be packing a pistol or revolver of any kind...but MAYBE a small derringer. Critters, defense, whatever.

A small caliber derringer (around 12 ounces) and a dozen rounds carried in a pocket would be a minimal amount of weight.

 

[BelgianPup]

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, it's what YOU think. Just like on any other subject.

 

[user 423]

I took exception to a few of his over-generalized statements such as "Still, some people will insist they need a gun just in case. This means one of two things: they are completely terrified of some unspecified threat, or they simply like guns because they’re cool and want to carry one."

If you're hobnobbing in bear or cougar country, that's not exactly an 'unspecified threat'.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^There again outdoor skills and situational awareness as well as the environment come into play. If you look at history, has having a firearm really stopped people from being harmed or made the situation worse by giving people a false sense of security which encourages them to go to areas and approach wild lands in ways they shouldn’t? Let’s cook some bacon in bear country or take our dog for a run, after all that 50 cal Desert Eagle will stop anything won’t it? That doesn’t even address the problems of lack of required safety training in this country and the increased danger of having firearms present. A titanium spork weighs less than most bullets never the less something safe to shoot them out of. Many ultra light hikers are I believe below 20 lbs and some under 10 lbs. probably the main group that reads these type articles.

 

[Malamute]

The biggest difficulty with these type of discussions is when seemingly intelligent, normal people start feeling like others have to believe the same way they do, or are unreasonable, paranoid, irresponsible, want to control others, whatever, (was I able to include pretty much everyone?) if they dont. It almost borders on a religious discussion, from both sides of the question.

Carry on.

 

[bullfrog]

^^^One of the joys of this forum is the ability of the people here to have informed discussion and respect everyone’s right to their own view point. I still remember debating in history class and our teacher’s favorite line. “I don’t agree with you but I will fight to the death for your right to have your opinion!” But you are right I do like encouraging people to look at facts and consider their decisions.

 

[dhuff]

So just to be clear, I was raised with guns. My father was a WWII vet and taught me gun safety and how to shoot. We took a rifle and a pistol when we went camping. I am in no way "anti-gun" in the proper circumstances.

I found the article interesting because it's a thoughtful, reason-based opinion piece on a specific issue. I also very much agree with the author on how firearm possession alters the dynamic of interpersonal interaction in the boonies.

"Others don’t know you—they don’t know your training, demeanor, judgment, or intelligence. All they know is that you have a weapon and, with it, the power to hurt them. And that’s all that truly matters. Guns intimidate." --- Drew Pogge

 

[bullfrog]

The Long Term Visitor Areas have drawn millions of campers and yet very little happens there ( wildlife attacks, domestic violence, armed robbery ) that would require a firearm even though there are most likely several firearms there owned by older veterans, former law enforcement and others that have been well trained either through hunting experience or as part of their jobs as in military service. I bet you would be hard pressed to find a city with a population the same as those LTVAs that has a lower rate of incidences involving a firearm. In fact I bet you those that have firearms have seldom if ever had a need to put a bullet in the chamber for anything other than target practice and to remain proficient. Just something to consider before committing to carrying a firearm and doing the training and paper work involved not to mention possible situations arising if stopped by police for a simple traffic violation while traveling.

 

[user 423]

^I may be wrong but in states like AZ that allow concealed carry without a permit, it seems that most people would shy away from unnecessary confrontations since an instigator might be met with more than they bargained for.