Yea or nay, good batteries to start a growing system?

[tx2sturgis]

Are you confused yet, Johnny?

First, those dry batteries are not the best out there, but would likely do the job. The problem with buying heavy batteries from Amazon is despite what the website says, there is no such thing as 'free shipping'. Amazon adds in an average for retail shipping rates to the farthest (in service area) destination from each "fulfillment center" and then adds that to the price. So what you are buying is a $100 battery and paying $164 for it. IF that's fine with you, then that's fine with me. 

But if you can find a local source, like Sams, Costco, Battery Depot, Interstate, etc, where they paid bulk freight rates to get a truckload of batteries directly to the local store, usually, it's a better deal per amp-hour for any given chemistry and quality level.

Second, you can quite successfully parallel two or more 12v batteries. They should be very close or identical in brand, age, and capacity, if possible. Every class 8 tractor (semi truck tractor) running up and down the road, millions of them, are running 2,3, or (usually) 4, 12v batteries in parallel.

Unless you are growing your own food, everything we eat was hauled by a truck that ran parallel 12v batteries. If it was 'bad', we'd probably all be hungry.

Johnny, I would keep looking for a better deal on batteries, you can get better quality for less money, you just have to look other places besides Amazon.

 

[John TF]

Yes I have come across some issues with that site , but it is the best I've seen so far that cover so much and is typically help full to end user .
If there is something better , that cover so much , I would gladly take a look and add to my bookmarks ?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Amazon has efficiency of scale and usually good prices and a beautiful web interface. You can buy just about anything there.

But on heavy, lead acid batteries, they have the same problem as all of the other e-commerce businesses: 

It costs money to ship that thing. Although Amazon does get discounted shipping rates from the big carriers like UPS and FedEx.

But you probably wouldn't buy plywood sheets or 55 gallon drums of drinking water from them either, because shipping would cost more than the item does, although they will triple the price and then state 'free shipping'. 

On the other hand, if you are in the middle of Rooster Poop, Nebraska, and there are no good alternatives locally, then it makes sense sometimes to just click on 'buy' and be done with it. You save the trouble (and cost) of driving 125 miles one way just to go look and see what a 'local' store might have in stock. 


And although this is technically off topic, I think it has merit in this case since the price per amp-hour of these batteries is always part of the equation.

 

[JohnnyK]

Another option I am wondering about is this one from Renogy:
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Batte...=8-11&keywords=12+volt+agm+deep+cycle+battery
I am wondering if anyone has experience with Renogy's batteries. Bob recommends there solar stuff, so thought it might be worth asking about.
I may or may not buy from Amazon, depending on pricing locally (Chandler, AZ ) being a Prime member, shipping cost may not be a big factor. But Amazon does let me look at other options to consider.

 

[John61CT]

Again, companies doing mass marketing to consumers, even (or especially) in the solar business are not a good source for true deep cycling batteries.

Individual exceptions are out there, but they are selling known-good lines from top makers, not slapping a label on some OEM's.

I would drive a couple hours if needed, really not worth shopping online unless a couple hundred for delivery is a small add-on to the total.

For FLA, ​the best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, less than $180 per 200+AH pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club

Otherwise, call these makers and ask for dealers in your area:

Rolls Surrette is at the top, routinely get 12-15 years properly cared for.

US Battery, Crown, Superior are the next tier

Trojan and Deka/East Penn are IMO now pretty close, with Trojan getting a bit suspect lately, lots of marketing falsehoods out there.

For AGM: Lifeline, Odyssey or Northstar.


These are your mainstream choices for quality.

If you don't care, then just go to Autozone or Walmart, or order online, but seriously, you end up paying just as much **or more** for **much poorer** quality compared to the Duracells above.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

I may or may not buy from Amazon, depending on pricing locally (Chandler, AZ ) being a Prime member, shipping cost may not be a big factor. But Amazon does let me look at other options to consider.

Golf cart batteries are competitive in Phoenix.
Check on Craigslist. Bought mine from a battery supplier who delivers to your door. Trojan 12v 30XHS 135 ah for $135.
://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sgd/d/golf-cart-batteries/6379159410.html
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/d/new-batteries-semi-solar-golf/6375823622.html
https://prescott.craigslist.org/for/d/solar-batteries-agm-115ah-12/6415448515.html

 

[JohnnyK]

Golf cart batteries are competitive in Phoenix.
Check on Craigslist. Bought mine from a battery supplier who delivers to your door. Trojan 12v 30XHS 135 ah for $135.
://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sgd/d/golf-cart-batteries/6379159410.html
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/d/new-batteries-semi-solar-golf/6375823622.html
https://prescott.craigslist.org/for/d/solar-batteries-agm-115ah-12/6415448515.html

Now there's information I can really use! The 1st listing in Gilbert is less than 2 miles from here. I'll be checking all of these out. Thank you, very much.

 

[akrvbob]

Lots of ego in this thread. I can understand that, no one has a bigger ego than me but I do try hard to temper it with a genuine desire to be helpful to another person.

Sadly, much of this thread is the opposite of helpful to others.

When I saw that the battery you had listed in the Orignal Post was only $145 with free shipping, I ordered it and it’s sitting in my van right now. It was 100% free shipping and took 5 days to be sitting on my doorstep after I ordered it. It’s a Universal Battery 100 ah AGM for $145. A truly great deal I couldn’t pass up.

So my very simple answer to your first post is yes, that is a great battery to start out on!! And yes, you can get great deals on batteries from Amazon.

Is a pair of Duracell golf carts the best value—probably. Should we recommend them to everybody—ABSOLUTELY NOT—THAT’S TERRIBLE ADVICE FOR MANY PEOPLE!! IT’S HORRIBLE ADVICE FOR ME. I will not put water in it and it’ll be severely damaged in a year.

If it’s your first system and you have 100 watts and aren’t going to buy more, it’s nearly certain you will not be disciplined enough to control your power usage and it’s very likely they’ll be dead in a year. How good of a deal is it then?

Should you not get started until you understand all of solar? It’s very likely you’ll get overwhelmed by it all and fall into paralysis analysis and never do anything!! 1000 times better to get a Renogy 100 watt kit and a Walmart Marine and get started now. It might very well meet your needs and if not you’ll get tons of practical experience and chances are everything wil start to become clear. Will you kill that battery in a year or two? Probably. But for $75 that education is a bargain worth many times more.

Ask questions here as they come up and we’ll walk you through it. And, I f it doesn’t meet your needs, you can just add on a system that does and this time you’ll know what you are doing and get it right.

WE ARE HERE TO HELP PEOPLE, NOT PROVE HOW SMART WE ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!! The constant arguing over what’s perfect needs to stop.

Perfect is often the mortal enemy of “plenty good enough” and just paralyzes people into doing nothing. That’s harmful to them, the one thing you must not do!!

The new rule for electrical is to fairly lay out the options and possible consequences, and let the person make their own choices and then no haranguing them about it or others who lay out other options.

 

[Burbanlife]

Yes, that UB121000 is a great battery...AGM no spills. no need to worry about adding water etc... The first one I ordered last month for 164.99 then I found this one for 145.99 So I had to grab another. So now my bank is 200 AH and going strong. I see they raised the price again to 164.99 but I think that is still a good price. No Regrets here

 

[JohnnyK]

Lots of ego in this thread. I can understand that, no one has a bigger ego than me but I do try hard to temper it with a genuine desire to be helpful to another person.
(snip)
The new rule for electrical is to fairly lay out the options and possible consequences, and let the person make their own choices and then no haranguing them about it or others who lay out other options.

Yes Bob,the back and forth was informative but kind of over my head. I'm thrilled that it led to a good deal of a battery that works for you. I was getting almost to the point of information overload, but it made me think it through and a link in the later replies to some local Craigslist  ads led me to a battery shop about 2 miles from here. Spent a good deal of time talking with gentleman there weighing options. He was very knowledgeable about not only batteries, but also had been in solar design and installation for several years. It was great picking his brain and helped me sort out some of the advise and more techie stuff in this thread. After a long conversation with him, I am now leaning towards a pair of Trojan T105 6v FLA in series. With 200 aH for $258 for the pair and considering Trojan's rep for very high quality deep cycles (it's all they make) it seems to  give me the most bang for the bucks. I get that I'll need to need to monitor and maintain more than with AGM but the payoff is that I can have a lot more aH for about the same money. 

He also gave some food for thought about another charging option along with solar. There are dual purpose controllers that can also handle wind turbine (portable? He mentioned "pop up.") generators for those stormy times without Sun but lots of wind. I really haven't had time to investigate that yet, but it makes perfect sense to me. I'll try to update what I find out. 

This place is awesome. What a resource!

 

[John61CT]

Wind is great on a boat, or house on a hill or on the plain.

Mobile vehicles, not so practical.

Those Trojans will be super

 

[tx2sturgis]

I've seen a few RVs with a small wind turbine, but on those windy nights, its gonna be noisy and if it's mounted to the vehicle, I think it would probably impart some vibration to the vehicle, possibly making it harder to sleep.

I like the idea...but it would also involve some maintenance and installation issues.

 

[tx2sturgis]

...it made me think it through and a link in the later replies to some local Craigslist  ads led me to a battery shop about 2 miles from here. 

{snip}

the payoff is that I can have a lot more aH for about the same money. 

JohnnyK, I'm glad you are making progress towards your goal. 

I think that most of the time, because someone has to pay the freight, heavy lead acid batteries are a better deal when you can get them at least somewhat locally. But not always. 

Trojan batteries are made in USA, the other one you linked, is not. If that matters to you. And you are getting more ah for less money, it seems.

So its a win for you!

 

[John61CT]

Lots of vibration and noise.

Plus you're actually going to seek out heavy winds and the specific location to live most exposed to them, top of the hill, edge of the cliff?

Even on boats wind is marginal, exclusive solar has been taking over many years now.

 

[JohnnyK]

(snip) 

Trojan batteries are made in USA, the other one you linked, is not. If that matters to you. And you are getting more ah for less money, it seems.

So its a win for you!

Exactly, on both counts. According the gent at Battery Giant, Trojans are the golf cart industry standard. Deep cycle is what they do, no starter batteries. A lot of other "name brands" are actually just leased labels on the actual makers product. Interstate, Duracell, etc. are examples of that. Not bad products, just not not at the same level of quality as the Trojans, mostly because they don't specialize in the deep cycles. If I were looking for starting batteries, Decca made are fine products. 

I'm also communicating with Pete over at Free Camping Life about his panel install event just before the RTR at Quartzite. It's referenced in another thread here. Being able to put on 900 watts of solar for about $500 is really intriguing, but there are many feasibility and durability questions before I  would commit to actually putting it on our rig. I'm very much a novice to a lot of this, but in a way, that isn't completely a bad thing. Sometimes fresh eyes can see things that are outside the box and might not be even considered.

 

[John61CT]

> A lot of other "name brands" are actually just leased labels on the actual makers product. Interstate, Duracell, etc. are examples of that. Not bad products, just not not at the same level of quality as the Trojans, mostly because they don't specialize in the deep cycles. If I were looking for starting batteries, Decca made are fine products. 

Yes Trojan is excellent for FLA, see my post above for other, actual mfg some even better but pricey.

Duracell brand belongs to Deka (East Penn), GCs sold by BatteriesPlus and Sam's Club, IMO nearly on par with Trojan.

Trojan's new AGM line is apparently now from their own factory, but quality is too early to tell. Their GEL line is made by Deka, excellent, but then Deka's AGM are cr^p.

Which is why DieHard went lousy, used to be fantastic Odyssey TPPL AGM, then they switched to Deka.

 

[John TF]

JohnnyK - " A lot of other "name brands" are actually just leased labels on the actual makers product. Interstate, Duracell, etc. are examples of that "

I was in the auto repair business and a dealer of Interstate Batteries , its been 10 + yrs. , but Instate Batteries were one of the few manufactures , and I found them to need early replacement less than any other starting battery in FLD .
Also the best warrantee for the manufacture , sometimes the individual dealer may be questionable , the manufacture told me to handle warrantees with the least amount of requirements , the only thing I had to do was charge & loadtest - use the melted in date code for return / exchange .
I have also used Trojans for my solar , L16 , I run everything in my RV's airconditioning included and get an average of 12-14 yrs.
In any application , if your not getting the stated life from your battery / batteries ---- YOUR DOING SOMETHING WRONG , with know quality products .

 

[John61CT]

Interstate has no factories, outsources that mostly to Johnson Controls (meh)

Many of their industrial line are made for them by US Battery, part numbers starting with "U", including some of their GC's.

 

[scottorious]

Connecting batteries in parallel is bad.  If you can avoid that with a series connection of a pair of 6 volt batteries that is better.

Why is a parallel connection bad?

 

[jimindenver]

Connecting batteries in parallel can lead to a unbalanced bank where one battery charges/discharges unevenly from another. Three is the maximum number of batteries (a single 12 volt or two 6v in series) that you can run parallel without extra cabling looking like shoe laces trying to keep the bank balanced.

Also anytime you connect more than one battery in parallel or series there is a chance one of the batteries can lose a cell and damage the whole bank by the time you notice.