Will this work for AC?

[Fat Ray]

I plan to install approximately 400 watts of solar to my van and 200 or so amp-hours of batteries along with a 2000 watt pure sine inverter.  I also intend to have on hand a quiet 1000 watt generator.  I know that generator will really only put out like 800 watts and an AC will want 550-750 watts just running but more when the compressor kicks on.  Can I run the AC on the inverter while the generator is charging the batteries?  The idea behind this is that the batteries will take care of the high and low wattage requirements while the generator takes care of the average need.  Am I off-base here?  Assuming this can be done, how loud will a generator such as a Honda EU1000i be in real terms... is it equal to a whisper, average talk or yell?

 

[Almost There]

I can't answer the question as to whether the plan will work but  I can tell you that with not one but 2 Honda 1000Ei running with a fiarly heav load on them I can still stand right beside them and talk without raising my voice.


When properly aimed away from neighbors and put behind my van, a neighbor 30 feet away will most likely be unaware that you're even running them. As the AC cycle you will probably notice a slight change in the quiet drone of the generator but not enough to bother anyone.

 

[Seminole Wind]

I plan to install approximately 400 watts of solar to my van and 200 or so amp-hours of batteries along with a 2000 watt pure sine inverter.  I also intend to have on hand a quiet 1000 watt generator.  I know that generator will really only put out like 800 watts and an AC will want 550-750 watts just running but more when the compressor kicks on.  Can I run the AC on the inverter while the generator is charging the batteries?  The idea behind this is that the batteries will take care of the high and low wattage requirements while the generator takes care of the average need.  Am I off-base here?  Assuming this can be done, how loud will a generator such as a Honda EU1000i be in real terms... is it equal to a whisper, average talk or yell?

here is a video that addresses you question to some extent


the eu1000 by honda will run a power factor corrected battery charger of 40 amps as that is what i have. i am installing a 60 amp power factor corrected charger in a friends rig next week and will be testing to see if my eu1000 will run it.

your idea to run the generator to charge batteries to handle the surges from the ac could/would work. but not the most efficient. if you dont have the generator yet and have space for more solar you might be better off spending the money on more solar. another approach would be like the unit they mention in the video that will run straight off the generator

 

[jimindenver]

Hey, That's my mug. lol

The A/C in the video takes 410 watts running and the other day someone said that it has a soft start capacitor. The generator in the video is a Sportsman 800/1000 watt inverter generator. It has no problem running the A/C on its own. One half gallon tank of gas with run the A/C for 3 1/2 hours.

The generator could not start the last version of this A/C because it did not have a soft start capacitor. To use the generator to supply the power I had to run it much like you are describing. The generator used the trailers converter to send the power to the bank that the inverter used to run the A/C. What a pain in the butt.

So use the solar to charge the batteries and leave the A/C to the generator.

 

[brahmon]

will marine/rv batteries work with ac? i have a similar setup as op. curreny 600w solar and 400 ah battery bank. shooting for 1200w and 600ah like jimindenver.

 

[Seminole Wind]

sure, they will "work" but not the best or most economical choice.

i highly recommend basic flooded lead acid golfcart batteries. 6 low end golfcart batteries will get you 600 amp hour rated capacity. for not much more than $600. shop places like sams club, costco, batteries plus. you can also often find the econo power line at interstate battery store fronts. these are like $60 for a golf cart battery. they are touted as "reconditioned" but are just inspected/tested used trade in batteries. can be some good training batteries that if cared for can last for years

 

[brahmon]

too late to switch to golf cart batteries since ive already bought 4 walmart everstarts. not good to mix em right?

i just wanna know i can eventually have ac for the upcoming sunmer! chee hooooo!!!???

thanks!

 

[Seminole Wind]

smoke em if you got them. lol

yes they will work just fine, especially if just using them as the buffer and running ac in the day with good sun. might even get decent life out of them by RV battery standards. if you try to cycle them to 50% or lower often by trying to run the ac off them after the sun subsides theyy wont last long. i am a big supporter of run what you brung. then when it is time for new batteries, get the good ones.

 

[Fat Ray]

Hey, That's my mug. lol

The A/C in the video takes 410 watts running and the other day someone said that it has a soft start capacitor. The generator in the video is a Sportsman 800/1000 watt inverter generator. It has no problem running the A/C on its own. One half gallon tank of gas with run the A/C for 3 1/2 hours.

The generator could not start the last version of this A/C because it did not have a soft start capacitor. To use the generator to supply the power I had to run it much like you are describing. The generator used the trailers converter to send the power to the bank that the inverter used to run the A/C. What a pain in the butt.

So use the solar to charge the batteries and leave the A/C to the generator.

Hey Jim,  Big fan of your videos!  Can you expand on the pain in the butt part?  I know this generator can charge a battery.. in an unregulated way... but in theory I can come up with some sort of regulation (a plain old battery charger running on the AC output?  May be inefficient).  I know as a big solar guy you're screaming at your screen for me to just put in a bunch of solar but I'm going to be limited on real estate.

 

[brahmon]

yes seminole, that's my plan. hopefully they'll last 3-5 years when lifep04 prices will be $200 instead of $1000!

 

[Seminole Wind]

Hey Jim,  Big fan of your videos!  Can you expand on the pain in the butt part?  I know this generator can charge a battery.. in an unregulated way... but in theory I can come up with some sort of regulation (a plain old battery charger running on the AC output?  May be inefficient).  I know as a big solar guy you're screaming at your screen for me to just put in a bunch of solar but I'm going to be limited on real estate.

i know i am not jim, he is much better looking...

the built in "charging" on most little generators aside from not being regulated, they are tiny. you would be wasting a lot of gas to charge with that on board source. yes it can be done, and they have saved my bacon a couple times inthe past when i had a dead starting battery i was able to charge enough to get my rig started.

a very efficient way to charge with the small generators is to get a power factor corrected 3 stage charger. you can easily run a 40 amp one with the 800/900/1000 watt inverter generators. i am pretty sure they would also run the 50 amp and i will be testing a 60 amp version on them soon. the key is to get a power factor corrected charger. if it is not power factor corrected the charger will run about 50% efficient so you will need 2 times the power to get the rated power into the battery. that means more fuel, significantly more. it will also reduce the size charger significantly that you can run off the same size generator.

my 30 amp power factor corrected charger from pronautica/sterling will put out 30 amps constant current up to the voltage set point which is quite adjustable. so at 14 volts that is equal to about 420 watts, a half gallon of gas in a small inverter generator will run about 6 hours with that load and give up to 180 amp hours into the batteries. a 400 amp hour battery bank down to 50% will get real close to fully recharged with that half gallon. you would need close to a 600 watt solar array to get that much charge on a good day of sun but the lil generator can do that any day, every day or even parked in the shade.

the 30 amp pronautica/sterling will set you back around 300, but so will 600 watts of solar, a low end inverter generator can be had for less than the cost of the charge controllers needed for the solar. batteries are the same...

i started in my minivan with 4 golfcart batteries, the 30 amp charger and a honda 1000. i could go 4-5 days of running my freezer and lights/laptop before having to run the generator. then a half gallon burn would get me back almost full to do it all over again. i also connected the engine alternator to the batteries with a manual paralleling switch so when i was doing a lot of driving i didnt have to run the genny at all. then once a month i would burn close to 2 tanks of fuel through the generator to fully charge and equalize the batteries.

n
then when i did add solar, i put 470 watts on the roof and the generator became a back up. only used if i wanted to camp in the shade for extended times or to help others.

so yes, you can do well with a good charger running off the generator

 

[Seminole Wind]

yes seminole, that's my plan.  hopefully they'll last 3-5 years when lifep04 prices will be $200 instead of $1000!

i figure by the time the lifepo4 gets down cheap enough i can afford there will be something new and better i will be dreaming of and drooling over... lol

 

[brahmon]

i hear ya, but tbh, i can't get too excite about a battery. lol

 

[jimindenver]

Interesting

I have the Kill a watt on the energy star A/C rated at 410 watts. Right now it is pulling closer to 480 watts. The Chico 6400 BTU is rated for 500 watts.

 

[Seminole Wind]

i hear ya, but tbh, i can't get too excite about a battery.  lol

what can i say, i am a solar geek. some of the differences from flooded lead to lithium are mind boggling...

 

[Seminole Wind]

that is interesting jim, is it maybe an older unit that has broken down somewhat and now drawing more current?

i wonder what the tolerance is on their testing?

 

[jimindenver]

This unit was bought less than a year ago and really has not seen much use. The older version never went above 450 watts but also did not have the start capacitor.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

too late to switch to golf cart batteries since ive already bought 4 walmart everstarts. not good to mix em right?

Some people take the "no mixing" batteries to insanity levels.
Mixing type of battery is very different than mixing brand/capacity.
Chemical reactions tend to equalize themselves.

Like the examples of old citing a man walking over a dollar to pick up a penny...so goes the battery wives-tales and urban legends. Is mixing brands and sizes perfect? Nope.
But if you have room for adding two smaller cells in your bank and you instead choose to drain three to their 50% limit instead of giving up that tiny bit of equalization loss to have 5, it's fools science.

Same applies to never mixing new batteries with two year olds.
Baloney.

Some people get caught up in too many numbers to the right of that decimal point on the multimeter.

 

[Seminole Wind]

to an extent your right. but mixing golfcart batteries with rv batteries is a fools errand. if more capacity is needed and the rv batteries are in good shape then just add a few more rv batteries. then when they are worn out, think up upgrading to golfcart batts or something else

one place you can really shoot your self in the foot is mixing batteries of different condition. if you have some older batteries that are getting week, they will tend to pull down the new batteries and shorten their life. also when you mix batteries of different capacities some will be worked much harder than the others thus shortening their life. then as they degrade they become a drain on the others.

sure you can do it with out causing a vortex to open and swallow you system whole. but dont do it if you dont have to. penny wise pound foolish as the saying goes

 

[JD GUMBEE]

to an extent your right.

Well thanks for the clarification on how right I was, but looking at my post, I think you must mean the fullest extent possible.

but mixing golfcart batteries with rv batteries is a fools errand. if more capacity is needed and the rv batteries are in good shape then just add a few more rv batteries. then when they are worn out, think up upgrading to golfcart batts or something else

Don't see where I advocated this. Do you?

one place you can really shoot your self in the foot is mixing batteries of different condition. if you have some older batteries that are getting week, they will tend to pull down the new batteries and shorten their life.

Agreed. That is why I even mentioned "two year old" batteries in my post. 100% right thus far?


...must be down here I stopped being right...

also when you mix batteries of different capacities some will be worked much harder than the others thus shortening their life. then as they degrade they become a drain on the others. ...dont do it if you dont have to.

Why not? I think THIS^^^is what you meant when you said "to an extent."
You had better check on that statement. Specifically, the words "much" and "harder."
While it is scientifically true, it is not even close to as critical as you make it sound.
In fact, if you did not have a new meter with about ten numbers to the right of the decimal, you would NEVER see demonstrable evidence of this. (My whole original point.)

We replace single tractor batteries with two smaller deep cycles all the time...AH rating way off the others...zero issues. Ever.
No need to talk about vortexes, if you have room to add a cell of the same voltage and type...even if the AH rating and physical size is different, you will improve your battery array life by adding it.
Each discharge will now also use that power, which means less percentage of draw-down on the original batteries each cycle.
...and that means they will last longer.

That's it.
Not adding 300AH to your array, just because the added cells would not be the exact carbon copies of the originals...is foolishness.
The gains far outweigh the losses.