why not insulate the exterior instead?

[Richard]

To be clear, yes, this is a sincere question. And, yes, I realize there will be challenges. That said...

With the exception of the van floor, I'm entertaining a polyiso layer that wraps around 3 sides (minus the non-passenger nose section) and covers the roof.

The challenges that come immediately to mind are aerodynamic (minimize extra drag during transit and the associated secure mounting strategy to ensure it stays mounted), weatherproofing (getting rain between insulation and van exterior could lewad to mold/mildew accumulation. On a related note, sand from sandstorm, space for insects to build nests, hives, etc., could be problematic

The benefits of a successful exterior insulation implementation include template simplicity (especially re: doors and rounded corners, where locks & wiring can be... inconvenient), insulation continuity (no more need for spray foam, fiberglass batting, etc., to fill awkward gaps), ease of installation (standing outside with mostly single-fit pieces attaching to mostly flat surfaces vs. cutting many smaller pieces to fit between ribs, inside door panels, etc.), and potentially more interior room at the top & sides (e.g., one might choose to paint the metal interior and to fasten directly to it vs. more traditional interior sheathing options).

Unless there's an insurmountable obstacle, let's brainstorm this a bit focusing on creative solutions.

Ready? GO!

 

[ZoNiE]

Like this?

 

[Trebor English]

The benefit that I had in mind is that in the winter the steel shell is on the warm side of the insulation. The steel shell is a vapor barrier. If the vapor barrier is on the warm side of the insulation there is less condensation. With a Mr. Heater Little Buddy there is a lot of water added to the air producing a lot of condensation.

Bob Wells made a video where he added insulation to the outside. It was stuck on with bungees, not intended for driving with it on. It was very quick to apply and remove.

 

[BradKW]

This might work for you:

 

[GotSmart]

Flat surfaces? on a van? Even my roof hase a curve.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

I think I'll just sit back and watch.

 

[TrainChaser]

Your idea might protect the paint job from damage by sandstorms!

But there could be issues with the 'Wet Paint' problem: People see a wet-paint sign, and they stick a finger on the surface to see if it's really wet. Or still wet. I can only imagine what might happen if you had something like a foam coating (rigid or spray-on): people would have to 'test' it to see if it is really foam. After a month or two, the rig might look like it was being eaten by huge termites. Or foam mites.

Try it, and keep us informed as to the results. Take pictures.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

I made Reflectix covers that can be used inside or out. On a hot day it really makes a big difference when you break the sun before it hits the glass.

 

[BradKW]

Sponges work for this guy...seen him around for years, seems like they either fall off or people snag one for souvenir...

[img=500x400]https://expatdidiceleste.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/crazy-car-key-west1.jpg?w=1122&h=749[/img]

[img=500x400]http://canadianbloghouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/KeyWestBarnacleTruck.jpg[/img]

 

[MrNoodly]

You'd need to cover the insulation with some kind of UV protectant to keep it from deteriorating.

 

[Mobilesport]

You'd need to cover the insulation with some kind of UV protectant to keep it from deteriorating.

How about spray foam and then poor mans fiberglass?.
I think Bob wrapped his in a Thermal blanket while parked.

 

[djkeev]

Interesting idea.........


Would it work?
Sure it would......

But.......

The concept is so full of complications. Water infiltration, road worthy, UV exposure, etc.
This idea will end up cisting a fortune to implement effectively.

I ask, why noy take a little of this money and purchase a proper RV propane furnace?

This will keep you warm without the moisture issues of a little buddy.

As always...... KISS

Dave

 

[Richard]

Like this?

This might work for you:.

Funny guys

~~~

The benefit that I had in mind ... steel shell is a vapor barrier.  If the vapor barrier is on the warm side of the insulation there is less condensation.

Good to know. Thanks.

~~~

Flat surfaces? on a van? Even my roof hase a curve.

Mostly flat. Adverbs matter

~~~

... the 'Wet Paint' problem:  People see a wet-paint sign, and they stick a finger on the surface to see if it's really wet.  Or still wet.
Try it, and keep us informed as to the results.  Take pictures.

If I prototype, I'll document & share for sure.

~~~

I have been thinking of making an external sun shade for my windshield and side windows. Although there would be the obvious problems with the weather It would seem to be so much more effective to stop the heat outside the windows rather than just inside. Thinking of Reflectix type material. Something easy to throw on and stow. As far as covering the whole vehicle that is another question.

You'd need to cover the insulation with some kind of UV protectant to keep it from deteriorating.

I was thinking external Reflectix for outside my windows, too. That's part of the inspiration behind the whole-vehicle external insulation idea. At first I thought simply cover the entire outside in reflectix. Reading through some of the insulation threads here comma I understand that reflectix is better as a radiant-heat barrier but not so much for conductive heat.

Then I thought about a layer of higher R-value insulation between the reflectix and the van shell. To me, this address is the point of needing UV insulation because with the reflectix as the outside layer of a higher R-value material like foam or polyiso, the UV would be blocked by the radiant barrier. So it were me to me.

~~~

Interesting idea......... Would it work? Sure it would......

But....... The concept is so full of complications. Water infiltration, road worthy, UV exposure, etc.
This idea will end up cisting a fortune to implement effectively.

It may, at least initially. If my interest was solely personal then yes, that cost might be a prohibitive consideration. But, that's true of most breakthrough innovation ideas, right? The first 'anything' was probably prohibitively expensive until the kinks worked out of the prototype and some sort of streamlined assembly was devised. The first lightbulb wasn't cost-effective nor was the first automobile. So I don't know if this will ever become something that goes mainstream but if it does, and it enables people who would otherwise not want to strip down the interior of the van to insulate, to do so, then maybe the real benefit is found in the convenience & availability to others.

At this stage it's just an idea.  it may go nowhere and if that's the outcome then I'm okay with that because at least it got explored. But, if it does end up going somewhere then 3-cheers for community-minded innovation!

Thanks for all their feedback so far. I'm looking forward to more!

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I think the only way it would be feasible is to create some sort of hard shell that covers all of the insulation. Something like a layer of spray foam on the outside of the vehicle and then spray a truck bed coating over it. I don't think you'll be winning any beauty contests but if nothing else, it's at least an interesting idea.

Or just create some sort of shell you only use while stationary, as that's really the time insulation is the most needed.

 

[JT646]

It may, at least initially. If my interest was solely personal then yes, that cost might be a prohibitive consideration. But, that's true of most breakthrough innovation ideas, right? The first 'anything' was probably prohibitively expensive until the kinks worked out of the prototype and some sort of streamlined assembly was devised. The first lightbulb wasn't cost-effective nor was the first automobile. So I don't know if this will ever become something that goes mainstream but if it does, and it enables people who would otherwise not want to strip down the interior of the van to insulate, to do so, then maybe the real benefit is found in the convenience & availability to others.

At this stage it's just an idea.  it may go nowhere and if that's the outcome then I'm okay with that because at least it got explored. But, if it does end up going somewhere then 3-cheers for community-minded innovation!

Richard,  I like your outside-the-box (van) thinking on this topic and would like to be kept informed on any future trials or testing.  Keep those interesting ideas flowing!

 

[rvpopeye]

I think Mobilsport's suggestion on insulation covered with poor man's fiberglass would have a good chance of working. That's what I was going to post before I read the rest of the thread.
The rough surface might eat up a little mpg though.

 

[MrNoodly]

In a world of engineers and other highly trained, highly intelligent people, no one has done this kind of external insulation. There are probably excellent reasons. But go ahead, be the pioneer. Then report back to us.

 

[Trebor English]

Several people have posted about insulating the outside of their fridge. The whole van is just scaling it up a level.

 

[highdesertranger]

don't try to insulate the front clip. that will hold all the engine heat in. highdesertranger

 

[Richard]

I think the only way it would be feasible is to create some sort of hard shell that covers all of the insulation.  Something like a layer of spray foam on the outside of the vehicle and then spray a truck bed coating over it.  I don't think you'll be winning any beauty contests but if nothing else, it's at least an interesting idea.  

Or just create some sort of shell you only use while stationary, as that's really the time insulation is the most needed.

I've got some ideas around this point of secure mounting that would be easier visualized than articulated. Pecking away on my cell phone isn't going to cut it. I'll try to rough sketch sdomething that when photographed actually clarifies these ideas (disclaimer: I'm no sketch artist).

~~~

I think Mobilsport's suggestion on insulation covered with poor man's fiberglass would have a good chance of working. That's what I was going to post before I read the rest of the thread.
The rough surface might eat up a little mpg though.

Agreed, probably a sensible baseline for prototyping.

~~~

In a world of engineers and other highly trained, highly intelligent people, no one has done this kind of external insulation. There are probably excellent reasons. But go ahead, be the pioneer. Then report back to us.

There are likely many good ideas that don't make it into the mainstream marketplace. The existence of popular DIY (do-it-yourself) and 'maker' communities & projects support this conclusion. Profitability and/or popularity don't necessarily imply 'good', and 'good' doesn't necessarily imply either popular or profitable.

~~~

don't try to insulate the front clip.  that will hold all the engine heat in.  highdesertranger

Agreed. The 3-sides would only cover actual passenger bulkhead. On my van, that's front of both front doors and aft.